How to deal with a 12 year old 2nd Dan

[nuhash]

Yes, i have met a 12 year old 2nd Dan but it was intended or anything.

I was promoting tkd club at school when one kid asked what dan my instructor was and i truthfully said 3rd and he said we has training under a 8th dan and he himself was a 2nd dan.

While it was harsh i just laughed in his face and called him a fake, the next day i apologised and asked if he could atleast come and watch the class, just so i could understand if he actually was any good but he turned to me and said "Thanks for apologising but I dont want to go because your instructor cant teach me anything because he is only a 3rd dan". At this stage i was absolutely fuming with rage, i was thinking a ruptured spleen would go well with such pig headed and arrogant comment but i just left.

Now i wondering what i could to prove that he cannot actually be a 2nd dan let alone a black belt, i was thinking of printing article 8 of the kukkiwon regulations to show that his belt is fake but i would like to know opinions of more experienced people.

P.S. please dont tell me to forget him, why? because i would feel slightly guilty that i am allowing a possible crooked instructor exploit the naiveness of a kid, even if he dissed my hogu

I also demoed poomsae koryo infront of a massive group of people at school knowing that it may show that if a green belt can do it then his 2nd dan doesnt mean anything at all, it worked on everyone except him

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Now i wondering what i could to prove that he cannot actually be a 2nd dan let alone a black belt, i was thinking of printing article 8 of the kukkiwon regulations to show that his belt is fake but i would like to know opinions of more experienced people.

Since you said don't tell you to forget about him, I won't. That being said, there is no way to say someone is not a II Dan, unless the certificate is forged, false etc. There simply is no single world-wide standard on TKD ranks. What can be a II Dan in school or group might not be 1 in another. That does not make it bad, wrong better etc, just different. For instance the ITF under Gen Choi has 9 years old as the youngest a child could get a black belt, but they had to wear a Junior Black Belt, which is half white & half black untill they were no longer a child & passed into the teenage years at 13 (thirTEEN). At this age they clock starts to tick for II Dan, making 14.5 yoa as the youngest someone could get a II Dan in the ITF. Of course even in the ITF that was not always followed, probably wasn't more that it was.
So I guess in the age of 6 year old kiddie black belts, then a II Dan 12 year old s not that bad!

 

[dancingalone]

Beat him up and take his lunch money?

 

[nuhash]

Since you said don't tell you to forget about him, I won't. That being said, there is no way to say someone is not a II Dan, unless the certificate is forged, false etc. There simply is no single world-wide standard on TKD ranks. What can be a II Dan in school or group might not be 1 in another. That does not make it bad, wrong better etc, just different. For instance the ITF under Gen Choi has 9 years old as the youngest a child could get a black belt, but they had to wear a Junior Black Belt, which is half white & half black untill they were no longer a child & passed into the teenage years at 13 (thirTEEN). At this age they clock starts to tick for II Dan, making 14.5 yoa as the youngest someone could get a II Dan in the ITF. Of course even in the ITF that was not always followed, probably wasn't more that it was.
So I guess in the age of 6 year old kiddie black belts, then a II Dan 12 year old s not that bad!

the problem is that he does WTF so officially he needs to be 16 to be 1st dan and 17 for 2nd dan

 

[Manny]

What can I say? Forget him it's just an 8 yo boy? C'mon you know and I know that maybe his samboning gave him a second dan black belt and maybe he will not deserve it, because a) is too young to achieve that grade of mastery and b) he does not have the maturity, humbility, seriusness,etc,etc, to become even a black belt.

In my dojang I am the oldest student having a second dan black belt and I have a 13 y.o. who is a second poom and his brother (16) this year become a second dan black belt, are they better than me? in certain points yes, they are quicker than me, they have more stamina than me and..... that's all, they can not have the maturity and spiritual thing the years TKD has given me. In fact they (kids) always treat me almost like our sambonim because the age thing and because I have earned my senior black belt status inside and ourside the dojang.

Something that really piss me off is TKD sambinims giving such a hig grades (black belt) to children, for me the best age to start giving black belt status is 18 years old or more.

Maybe and just maybe in two years more Tony and Bob (the two brothers) will out rank me, they are young, they don't have a family to raise, they don't have a 10-12 hours job everyday, the only thing they have to do is go to school and go to dojang.

Manny

 

[Tez3]

I think he will find out the hard way that he's not as good as he thinks he is.
My apologies in advance because I can't remember who posted it up a while back but they had a couple of children come from another club who were senior belts (Dan grades?) and they had been beaten up in the park by other children after boasting of their prowess at martial arts.

This child will find another same size etc as himself but a lower grade or maybe none at all who will hand his **** to him on a plate then I'm afraid he won't be thinking he's so special sadly.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Yes, i have met a 12 year old 2nd Dan but it was intended or anything.

I was promoting tkd club at school when one kid asked what dan my instructor was and i truthfully said 3rd and he said we has training under a 8th dan and he himself was a 2nd dan.

While it was harsh i just laughed in his face and called him a fake, the next day i apologised and asked if he could atleast come and watch the class, just so i could understand if he actually was any good but he turned to me and said "Thanks for apologising but I dont want to go because your instructor cant teach me anything because he is only a 3rd dan". At this stage i was absolutely fuming with rage, i was thinking a ruptured spleen would go well with such pig headed and arrogant comment but i just left.

Now i wondering what i could to prove that he cannot actually be a 2nd dan let alone a black belt, i was thinking of printing article 8 of the kukkiwon regulations to show that his belt is fake but i would like to know opinions of more experienced people.

P.S. please dont tell me to forget him, why? because i would feel slightly guilty that i am allowing a possible crooked instructor exploit the naiveness of a kid, even if he dissed my hogu

I also demoed poomsae koryo infront of a massive group of people at school knowing that it may show that if a green belt can do it then his 2nd dan doesnt mean anything at all, it worked on everyone except him

Ask him to teach you all the advanced stuff while he still knows it all.
Sean

 

[Manny]

Just for the record, last july four or five children got their first poom black belt and the ages were beetwen 8 and 10 years can you imagine that maybe this kids in two years more can be second poom and maybe, just maybe one of them reaching 15-16 years old age would become a 3rd or 4th dan black belt?

There are some things I don't get about TKD?

Manny

 

[CoryKS]

Wow. So you're promoting your club in a school and you openly mock a 12 year old and his training, and then when he refuses your invitation to show him The True Way and Light, you become filled with rage and consider violence against him?

You might get more business for your school if you introduce yourself as a representative of your nearest competitor.

 

[nuhash]

please delete

 

[nuhash]

Wow. So you're promoting your club in a school and you openly mock a 12 year old and his training, and then when he refuses your invitation to show him The True Way and Light, you become filled with rage and consider violence against him?

You might get more business for your school if you introduce yourself as a representative of your nearest competitor.

It wasnt in open, it was a 1-1 conversation, and all i said was that afaik you cant be black belt under 16, and i was promoting classes at my academic school, i am not joined to a school as such, i just train with my instructor and he helps me get into competitions and such

also, referring to Manny, he was 1st dan 6 months ago and has only done tkd for only about 1-2 years

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Beat him up and take his lunch money?

LOL
Classic!

 

[jthomas1600]

I know you didn't want to hear "just forget about it", but it really is the only advice I would offer. I can't see doing anything else as being productive. I've come to see since I started TKD that there are many schools that have no standards when compared to the school I attend. I've also learned that there are many schools with much higher standards and expectations. Don't waste your time setting everyone else straight. That's just my $0.02

 

[miguksaram]

Yes, i have met a 12 year old 2nd Dan but it was intended or anything.

I was promoting tkd club at school when one kid asked what dan my instructor was and i truthfully said 3rd and he said we has training under a 8th dan and he himself was a 2nd dan.

While it was harsh i just laughed in his face and called him a fake, the next day i apologised and asked if he could atleast come and watch the class, just so i could understand if he actually was any good but he turned to me and said "Thanks for apologising but I dont want to go because your instructor cant teach me anything because he is only a 3rd dan". At this stage i was absolutely fuming with rage, i was thinking a ruptured spleen would go well with such pig headed and arrogant comment but i just left.

Now i wondering what i could to prove that he cannot actually be a 2nd dan let alone a black belt, i was thinking of printing article 8 of the kukkiwon regulations to show that his belt is fake but i would like to know opinions of more experienced people.

P.S. please dont tell me to forget him, why? because i would feel slightly guilty that i am allowing a possible crooked instructor exploit the naiveness of a kid, even if he dissed my hogu

I also demoed poomsae koryo infront of a massive group of people at school knowing that it may show that if a green belt can do it then his 2nd dan doesnt mean anything at all, it worked on everyone except him

Punch him the nose and steal his lunch money and while you're at kick him in the balls.

That said:
1) What gives you the right to laugh at him because he is a 2nd dan?
2) What gives you the right to say he is a fake?
3) On what athourity do you have it that his instructor is crooked?
4) How old are you? I can use the excuse of the 12 year old being naive about rank and knowldege, but what is your excuse?
5) Did he claim Kukkiwon 2nd dan KKW? Perhaps he is a 2nd dan in his school with no KKW rank. Perhaps he just doesn't realize a difference between poom rank and adult rank.

Frankly you are in no position whatsoever to judge. You don't know his school or his instructor and I would be willing to bet that if your instructor has integrity then he would tell you your actions were wrong. If he thinks you are justified then perhaps he needs to re-adjust his outlook on things as well.

I could go on and on about how wrong you were on the way you handled the whole situation but I think you get the idea. If not I will gladly explain more.

 

[Manny]

It wasnt in open, it was a 1-1 conversation, and all i said was that afaik you cant be black belt under 16, and i was promoting classes at my academic school, i am not joined to a school as such, i just train with my instructor and he helps me get into competitions and such

also, referring to Manny, he was 1st dan 6 months ago and has only done tkd for only about 1-2 years

Oh Boy!!! a second degree black belt with only 2 years of training?? Jesus!!! it took me 4-5 yerars to get my black belt and it took me 3 years to get my second one.

Now I see why this little fellow was a little harh to you, he simply does not have what it takes to become even a green belt.

manny

 

[Touch Of Death]

Punch him the nose and steal his lunch money and while you're at kick him in the balls.

That said:
1) What gives you the right to laugh at him because he is a 2nd dan?
2) What gives you the right to say he is a fake?
3) On what athourity do you have it that his instructor is crooked?
4) How old are you? I can use the excuse of the 12 year old being naive about rank and knowldege, but what is your excuse?
5) Did he claim Kukkiwon 2nd dan KKW? Perhaps he is a 2nd dan in his school with no KKW rank. Perhaps he just doesn't realize a difference between poom rank and adult rank.

Frankly you are in no position whatsoever to judge. You don't know his school or his instructor and I would be willing to bet that if your instructor has integrity then he would tell you your actions were wrong. If he thinks you are justified then perhaps he needs to re-adjust his outlook on things as well.

I could go on and on about how wrong you were on the way you handled the whole situation but I think you get the idea. If not I will gladly explain more.

Beside the fact that he holds the regulations in his hand, he has logic on his side. I would not have laughed in the kids face, though.That was rude. He should have waited until he left the room to laugh.:mst:
Sean

 

[miguksaram]

Beside the fact that he holds the regulations in his hand, he has logic on his side. I would not have laughed in the kids face, though.That was rude. He should have waited until he left the room to laugh.:mst:
Sean

First he held referenced not held a regulation. If the kid is a 2nd poom belt, he may look at that as a 2nd degree...2nd pooms at 12 are quite within regulations. So there may have been a miscommunication on that part. Also, did the kid claim to even have a 2nd KKW dan in the first place? It could have been a school promotion not an organizational promotion...the kid may not even be in a KKW school.

Next...He calls the kid's 8th dan instructor a crooked instructor and said his belt is a fake. On who's authority? A couple of years of his own personal experience? Bottom line he does not have logic on his side he simply has assumptions based on his or his instructors skewed view of who should be a 2nd dan.

 

[puunui]

Yes, i have met a 12 year old 2nd Dan but it was intended or anything. I was promoting tkd club at school when one kid asked what dan my instructor was and i truthfully said 3rd and he said we has training under a 8th dan and he himself was a 2nd dan. While it was harsh i just laughed in his face and called him a fake, the next day i apologised and asked if he could atleast come and watch the class, just so i could understand if he actually was any good but he turned to me and said "Thanks for apologising but I dont want to go because your instructor cant teach me anything because he is only a 3rd dan". At this stage i was absolutely fuming with rage, i was thinking a ruptured spleen would go well with such pig headed and arrogant comment but i just left.

I think you are getting worked up over nothing. The key fact in this situation is not his rank, but his age. What do you care what a 12 year old thinks of you?

 

[Touch Of Death]

OK fine. But to an outsider looking in, there is merit to scoff at the kid. I agree that calling his instructor a fake was incendiary.
Sean

 

[jks9199]

I think you are getting worked up over nothing. The key fact in this situation is not his rank, but his age. What do you care what a 12 year old thinks of you?

Exactly.

He's 12. How do you know he was even telling the truth?

If you're really that concerned -- rather than having your own ego threatened -- bring it up to your instructor.

By the way -- does your instructor know that you're doing demonstrations at school?