KKW revoking certification

[leadleg]

I have a hard time seeing the KKW being able to revoke BB certificates based on what we are hearing from the instructor course in cali.
I would think that outside of a felony conviction the KKW would open itself up to lawsuits and probable impossibility of proving the certificate holder has commited wrongdoing.Unless of course the perp. was to confess.
I also do not think that the KKW is talking about this from a standpoint of helping out the GM's here in the states but more of bringing in the group to be more inline with the way KKW TKD schools are regulated in Korea.

 

[puunui]

>Starting in February, as we were told, only those posessing a
>KKW master liscence will be able to order KKW certs. Those who
>have not attended the course will be S.O.O.L.. I think gms will be
>the exception. They are also going to start revoking dan certs and
>liscences of those who are found to be not following the new standards
>and those who are cheating the system by ordering certs for those who
>can not otherwise get them.


I was told that while the Kukkiwon has been in the discussion phase regarding this issue, no decision has been made. Therefore, what was told to the KKW Instructor Course attendees was either a misunderstanding and/or mistranslation.

I heard that there were over 100 or more attendees who did not have any sort of Kukkiwon certification. Many showed up with Moo Duk Kwan, private dan, or other types of unauthorized unverified certification. Mr. Hwang, who was in charge of the seminar registration, stated that the overwhelming majority of the attendees did not have Kukkiwon certification, which upset him greatly. Registration was supposed to be completed by I believe January 3, which would allow the Kukkiwon to confirm the participant's Kukkiwon rank and status. However, by that date, no one had registered and therefore the registration date was unilaterally extended by the seminar host to the day before the seminar would start.

This has the makings of yet another fiasco, similar to the one at US Open with the USAT special promotion test. Some will come away with deserved certification, but many others will be disappointed and will complain, especially given the big bucks ($475) that participants had to shell out. The result of all this will be headache and a loss of reputation for the Kukkiwon in the United States. The Kukkiwon stated that they would never again have a function such as the US Open special test with USAT, and after this event, I would be surprised if they allowed MAC/USAT to host another Kukkiwon Instructor Course after this experience.

Part of the problem is that there are no english speakers who are instructing at the course. It is korean speaking instructors who require translations. This means that half the material will be covered, because it takes twice as long to have translators present than it does with english speakers. When I attended the course in Korea, the overwhelming majority of class work was covered by english speakers.

 

[leadleg]

>Starting in February, as we were told, only those posessing a
>KKW master liscence will be able to order KKW certs. Those who
>have not attended the course will be S.O.O.L.. I think gms will be
>the exception. They are also going to start revoking dan certs and
>liscences of those who are found to be not following the new standards
>and those who are cheating the system by ordering certs for those who
>can not otherwise get them.


I was told that while the Kukkiwon has been in the discussion phase regarding this issue, no decision has been made. Therefore, what was told to the KKW Instructor Course attendees was either a misunderstanding and/or mistranslation.

I heard that there were over 100 or more attendees who did not have any sort of Kukkiwon certification. Many showed up with Moo Duk Kwan, private dan, or other types of unauthorized unverified certification. Mr. Hwang, who was in charge of the seminar registration, stated that the overwhelming majority of the attendees did not have Kukkiwon certification, which upset him greatly. Registration was supposed to be completed by I believe January 3, which would allow the Kukkiwon to confirm the participant's Kukkiwon rank and status. However, by that date, no one had registered and therefore the registration date was unilaterally extended by the seminar host to the day before the seminar would start.

This has the makings of yet another fiasco, similar to the one at US Open with the USAT special promotion test. Some will come away with deserved certification, but many others will be disappointed and will complain, especially given the big bucks ($475) that participants had to shell out. The result of all this will be headache and a loss of reputation for the Kukkiwon in the United States. The Kukkiwon stated that they would never again have a function such as the US Open special test with USAT, and after this event, I would be surprised if they allowed MAC/USAT to host another Kukkiwon Instructor Course after this experience.

Part of the problem is that there are no english speakers who are instructing at the course. It is korean speaking instructors who require translations. This means that half the material will be covered, because it takes twice as long to have translators present than it does with english speakers. When I attended the course in Korea, the overwhelming majority of class work was covered by english speakers.

Well, of course there are English speaking instructors at the seminar,saying NO english speakers is eroneous information. It goes to the idea that you are saying things here to tarnish the seminar.You say you have HEARD this and that but I am concerned from who and what your translation is from that source.You may have hate towards the usat but this is a KKW seminar, you should show more respect for the KKW.
When I took the KKW seminar in San Fran the instructors were non english speaking but it was easy to understand what they wanted and were conveying.
In Chicago some of the english speaking instructors could have used translators
If the policy of the KKW regarding revoking certificates is only in the decision stages,why are they even mentioning this to the masters there? It could be they are tired of teaching the standards to masters then returning a few years later only to find the standards are still not being taught, so much resistance from the instructors. Are they using this as a veiled threat?

 

[puunui]

Well, of course there are English speaking instructors at the seminar,saying NO english speakers is eroneous information.

I was rushing and what I was trying to say was that the Kukkiwon brought no english speaking instructors with them from Korea.

It goes to the idea that you are saying things here to tarnish the seminar.

The seminar is ongoing so we will see what happens. What will tarnish the seminar is what happens when all these people who are expecting their Certificate of Qualification don't receive it, because they do not have Kukkiwon certification.

You say you have HEARD this and that but I am concerned from who and what your translation is from that source.

I think you would change your tone and attitude if you knew who I heard this from. The conversation was in english.

You may have hate towards the usat but this is a KKW seminar, you should show more respect for the KKW.

I don't have hate for the USAT, and respect for the KKW is not the issue, because it isn't their fault that the requirements were not followed. But the Kukkiwon will have to bear the brunt of the responsibility for the fallout, just like the Kukkiwon had to take it on the chin for the Kukkiwon Special Test at US Open.

If the policy of the KKW regarding revoking certificates is only in the decision stages,why are they even mentioning this to the masters there?

Good question. You would think that advance notice of this type of far reaching policy would be given to Kukkiwon certified instructors, on a policy that supposedly goes into effect in February.

It could be they are tired of teaching the standards to masters then returning a few years later only to find the standards are still not being taught, so much resistance from the instructors. Are they using this as a veiled threat?

You can speculate all you want. I think your statement goes more to how you feel than more than anything. I can tell you that there are all kinds of things going on within the Kukkiwon leadership. The Kukkiwon bylaws state that the Chairman of the Board can remove the Kukkiwon President at anytime. We will see if and when that is put to use.

I will also say that if you read the Modern History book again carefully, you can see evidence of President Kang's thoughts and feelings embedded in there. President Kang is Kwan Jang of the Song Moo Kwan, which is by far the smallest kwan of the original five, and that bringing his small kwan mentality and attitude to a big picture place like the Kukkiwon and the root of the majority of the issues the seniors have with him.

Let's put it this way: You run your own club in a certain way. What if they suddenly put you in charge of USAT. Do you think you could run the USAT in the same fashion that you run your club?

 

[terryl965]

My question is simple how could they really regulate anything? I mean they would need several 1,000's special instructors to go around the globe consistantly to make sure each and every person is doing the right way. What about all these people that all ready have a KKW and all the people under them, they just plan are revoking everybody rank because they are not up to the standerds they are trying to enforce now. This will be no easy task and alot of people will stand up against this and the KKW will just tar people away from them instead of building a better foundation.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

You can speculate all you want. I think your statement goes more to how you feel than more than anything. I can tell you that there are all kinds of things going on within the Kukkiwon leadership. The Kukkiwon bylaws state that the Chairman of the Board can remove the Kukkiwon President at anytime. We will see if and when that is put to use.

I will also say that if you read the Modern History book again carefully, you can see evidence of President Kang's thoughts and feelings embedded in there. President Kang is Kwan Jang of the Song Moo Kwan, which is by far the smallest kwan of the original five, and that bringing his small kwan mentality and attitude to a big picture place like the Kukkiwon and the root of the majority of the issues the seniors have with him.

Let's put it this way: You run your own club in a certain way. What if they suddenly put you in charge of USAT. Do you think you could run the USAT in the same fashion that you run your club?

Wasn't part of the reason why President Kang took over because of the criminal connections some at the KKW had?
Isn't that why the Korean National Assembly passed a law that disqualifies anyone with a criminal record of board positions within the KKW?

 

[KarateMomUSA]

My question is simple how could they really regulate anything? I mean they would need several 1,000's special instructors to go around the globe consistantly to make sure each and every person is doing the right way. What about all these people that all ready have a KKW and all the people under them, they just plan are revoking everybody rank because they are not up to the standerds they are trying to enforce now. This will be no easy task and alot of people will stand up against this and the KKW will just tar people away from them instead of building a better foundation.

I think having everyone move a certain way & do Poomsae technically in a standard way, along with a unified syllabus & testing requirements is very, very hard to accomplish on a world-wide scope. This is why what Gen Choi did was so amazing. But I think the KKW has an even more difficult job, as they are trying to do it after so many are set in their ways.
I think that 1 of the ways that this will be done, is through sports poomsae, but not only on the world level, but national, regional & all the down to the local level. This & the testing requirements for Dans/Pooms be conducted world-wide, but only by up to date KKW certified examiners that INSIST the technical conformity is there.
It will be difficult, but possible, with many growing pains, like we are reading about here & some are experiencing.

 

[puunui]

Wasn't part of the reason why President Kang took over because of the criminal connections some at the KKW had?
Isn't that why the Korean National Assembly passed a law that disqualifies anyone with a criminal record of board positions within the KKW?

no and no.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Quote: Originally Posted by KarateMomUSA
Wasn't part of the reason why President Kang took over because of the criminal connections some at the KKW had?
Isn't that why the Korean National Assembly passed a law that disqualifies anyone with a criminal record of board positions within the KKW?

no and no.

Why then was GM Lee Seung Wan replaced? Why did their National Assembly see fit to create this law?
You did know that GM Lee is a convicted criminal, right? Or is there some reason why the nasty Korean politics set him up?

 

[msmitht]

>Starting in February, as we were told, only those posessing a
>KKW master liscence will be able to order KKW certs. Those who
>have not attended the course will be S.O.O.L.. I think gms will be
>the exception. They are also going to start revoking dan certs and
>liscences of those who are found to be not following the new standards
>and those who are cheating the system by ordering certs for those who
>can not otherwise get them.


I was told that while the Kukkiwon has been in the discussion phase regarding this issue, no decision has been made. Therefore, what was told to the KKW Instructor Course attendees was either a misunderstanding and/or mistranslation.

I heard that there were over 100 or more attendees who did not have any sort of Kukkiwon certification. Many showed up with Moo Duk Kwan, private dan, or other types of unauthorized unverified certification. Mr. Hwang, who was in charge of the seminar registration, stated that the overwhelming majority of the attendees did not have Kukkiwon certification, which upset him greatly. Registration was supposed to be completed by I believe January 3, which would allow the Kukkiwon to confirm the participant's Kukkiwon rank and status. However, by that date, no one had registered and therefore the registration date was unilaterally extended by the seminar host to the day before the seminar would start.

This has the makings of yet another fiasco, similar to the one at US Open with the USAT special promotion test. Some will come away with deserved certification, but many others will be disappointed and will complain, especially given the big bucks ($475) that participants had to shell out. The result of all this will be headache and a loss of reputation for the Kukkiwon in the United States. The Kukkiwon stated that they would never again have a function such as the US Open special test with USAT, and after this event, I would be surprised if they allowed MAC/USAT to host another Kukkiwon Instructor Course after this experience.

Part of the problem is that there are no english speakers who are instructing at the course. It is korean speaking instructors who require translations. This means that half the material will be covered, because it takes twice as long to have translators present than it does with english speakers. When I attended the course in Korea, the overwhelming majority of class work was covered by english speakers.

Since I just finished the course I can shed some light on what happened to those w/no kkw cert. They were allowed to do a 8 hour basic and poomsae course. There were about 60 of them and they were not in any of the classes we were in. Only saw them in the very begining then they went to other room. They received a cert saying they completed a kibon/poomsae seminar. All masters/gms in attendance had to present kkw card. No offense but you should not comment on things that happened when you were not there. I will post later about the third and final day on YOU ARE AWESOME. I'm tired now.
Btw, there was a translator at every class where it was needed. Obvoiusly jimmy kim, his father, derrik kwak and jp choi did not need one.
Don't be a hater. I agree with most of your posts...not this one

 

[puunui]

Why then was GM Lee Seung Wan replaced? Why did their National Assembly see fit to create this law? You did know that GM Lee is a convicted criminal, right? Or is there some reason why the nasty Korean politics set him up?

GM Lee was replaced because he stood for the proposition that the Kukkiwon should remain autonomous and not become under Korean government control. The law that was created was to turn the Kukkiwon from a private entity into a special Korean government entity. All employees of the Kukkiwon became government employees. In order to work for the Korean government, there is a law in place which states that you cannot hold a government position if you have ever been convicted of any crime. You really need to do your own work and get things straight, because almost all of your points are like this. Frankly, I am tired of having to clarify these types of points for you all the time, especially since you only pick and choose to listen to the ones that fit your General Choi agenda. Do your own work, so I can do mine.

 

[Archtkd]

>Starting in February, as we were told, only those posessing a
>KKW master liscence will be able to order KKW certs. Those who
>have not attended the course will be S.O.O.L.. I think gms will be
>the exception. They are also going to start revoking dan certs and
>liscences of those who are found to be not following the new standards
>and those who are cheating the system by ordering certs for those who
>can not otherwise get them.


I was told that while the Kukkiwon has been in the discussion phase regarding this issue, no decision has been made. Therefore, what was told to the KKW Instructor Course attendees was either a misunderstanding and/or mistranslation.

I heard that there were over 100 or more attendees who did not have any sort of Kukkiwon certification. Many showed up with Moo Duk Kwan, private dan, or other types of unauthorized unverified certification. Mr. Hwang, who was in charge of the seminar registration, stated that the overwhelming majority of the attendees did not have Kukkiwon certification, which upset him greatly. Registration was supposed to be completed by I believe January 3, which would allow the Kukkiwon to confirm the participant's Kukkiwon rank and status. However, by that date, no one had registered and therefore the registration date was unilaterally extended by the seminar host to the day before the seminar would start.

This has the makings of yet another fiasco, similar to the one at US Open with the USAT special promotion test. Some will come away with deserved certification, but many others will be disappointed and will complain, especially given the big bucks ($475) that participants had to shell out. The result of all this will be headache and a loss of reputation for the Kukkiwon in the United States. The Kukkiwon stated that they would never again have a function such as the US Open special test with USAT, and after this event, I would be surprised if they allowed MAC/USAT to host another Kukkiwon Instructor Course after this experience.

Part of the problem is that there are no english speakers who are instructing at the course. It is korean speaking instructors who require translations. This means that half the material will be covered, because it takes twice as long to have translators present than it does with english speakers. When I attended the course in Korea, the overwhelming majority of class work was covered by english speakers.

This account does not seem to jibe at all with with the reports from Msmitht, a man in the field -- who I don't think would be making stuff up. Why is there this dicrepancy of information, which really need not be tinged or spiced up with the type of partisan bias that we really could do without? Can't we all declare some neutrality for just a few moments, especially when we are dealing with facts that affect us all?

 

[puunui]

This account does not seem to jibe at all with with the reports from Msmitht, a man in the field -- who I don't think would be making stuff up. Why is there this dicrepancy of information, which really need not be tinged or spiced up with the type of partisan bias that we really could do without? Can't we all declare some neutrality for just a few moments, especially when we are dealing with facts that affect us all?

I don't really care about the course so much as the announcement at the course that Kukkiwon Instructor qualification certificate is required to recommend candidates for Kukkiwon certification and that stuff. That is the important point.

 

[msmitht]

I don't really care about the course so much as the announcement at the course that Kukkiwon Instructor qualification certificate is required to recommend candidates for Kukkiwon certification and that stuff. That is the important point.

I asked the president of the wta through a translator, durring the seminar and in front of the class, to clarify what I had just heard. "Sir, so according to what you are saying, no one will be able to apply for poom/dan certificates unless they have passed this course?" After the translator finished he looked straight at me and said "Nae". The translator said"correct".
And many did not pass the poomsae part even after 12 hours with gm hwang, in sik.

 

[d1jinx]

I don't really care about the course so much as the announcement at the course that Kukkiwon Instructor qualification certificate is required to recommend candidates for Kukkiwon certification and that stuff. That is the important point.

This kind of goes against what they were saying last year if they do.

At the last few KKW seminars within the last few years, It was the Kukkiwon recognized the Gap in retiring GM's and no one left to fill their positions and promote within the U.S.

If they want to expand KKW certification in the U.S, this will not be the way to do it... well unless you are looking to switch over to the MNA running greater than 70% and having the U.S. submit through only 1 focal point like other CAT 1 nations have too. (logistically for Korea, this makes more sense... can't imagine thier postal bill the week after the 5th and 20th... with so many diffent addresses!!!!)

OR

It's just a way to try and "increase" course participation. Word will spread and "everyone will seek out the course ASAP. But that would be dumb because eventually you will dry up those assets prematurely. Everyone who takes the course will not be ready to re-take it again (for cert upgrade) within 6 years or so, (given they were a 6th dan when the took it)

 

[d1jinx]

....

Haven't been online all weekend til now, thanks for the updates... When did the course finish, today or yesterday?

I'm sorry to hear Master Kwak had laptop problems... he has alot he could offer and not much time to do so... Isn't that always how it goes, When pressed for time, the 1 thing invented to "speed" our lives up, slows us down!

Looking forward to the rest, so in the end, was it 3 days or 4?

 

[KarateMomUSA]

GM Lee was replaced because he stood for the proposition that the Kukkiwon should remain autonomous and not become under Korean government control. The law that was created was to turn the Kukkiwon from a private entity into a special Korean government entity. All employees of the Kukkiwon became government employees. In order to work for the Korean government, there is a law in place which states that you cannot hold a government position if you have ever been convicted of any crime. You really need to do your own work and get things straight, because almost all of your points are like this. Frankly, I am tired of having to clarify these types of points for you all the time, especially since you only pick and choose to listen to the ones that fit your General Choi agenda. Do your own work, so I can do mine.

Lets really clarify some things here, like what came 1st, the chicken or the egg?
Corruption & scandal rocked the south Korean TKD world. This resulted in Dr Kim Un Yong resigning his positions, being arrested, convicted & served time. GM Lee Seung Wan was arrested for being involved in interfering with the KTA elections. He had I believe 2 criminal convictions. He took over the KKW prior to the Korean National Assembly passing the new law last year, by a very wide margin I should add.
So if GM Lee was & I know he is opposed to the govt control & oversight, it is the govt that saw fit to step in a help clean up TKD, their national sport, just as the US Congress has done in the past with their national sport of baseball. Kukki TKD or Olympic TKD is very important to Korea & the Korean people.
This also is a reason why the WTF has to have some distance from the KKW, as the WTF must be seen as an independent international sports governing body, not a govt influenced entity.

 

[bluewaveschool]

How many treads have we gone over the GM Lee thing now? I'm starting to feel like an expert on him at this point.

 

[puunui]

How many treads have we gone over the GM Lee thing now? I'm starting to feel like an expert on him at this point.

This is a different GM Lee.

 

[puunui]

This also is a reason why the WTF has to have some distance from the KKW, as the WTF must be seen as an independent international sports governing body, not a govt influenced entity.

The fact of the matter is that the Kukkiwon's president and WTF's president are closer now than they have been since Dr. Choue became WTF president. President KANG Won Sik is a graduate of Kyung Hee University, a school that was founded by President Choue's father. to that end, President Kang has been showing up at WTF functions, which has been reported on the WTF webpage news section. They are going out of their way to show that WTF and Kukkiwon enjoy a close relationship, through their respective presidents.