Moo Duk Kwan GM KIM Ki Whang

[puunui]

I'm moving this discussion to a new thread. I think we go off on tangents and it might be more helpful to give some of this discussions their own space.

I am under the impression that back in the early days, you needed some sort of sponsorship to leave Korea to teach TKD abroad, and that this involved being KKW certified. This impression, comes mainly from the immigration story of KIM Ki Whang. I know that WHANG Kee had some role in getting KIM here, albeit under the guise of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan. I assume that my KJN attained KKW certification for this reason, although I do not know this for certain, I am only guessing. Also I would assume that KKW certification was important for his role in the Olympics and in the USTU, but again this is only conjecture.

I forget exactly how it went down, but from what I remember, GM KIM Ki Whang received dan ranking from TOYAMA Kanken Sensei while studying in Japan. When he came back to Korea, he did not open a dojang but instead did befriend and taught certain individuals such as Moo Duk Kwan GM HONG Chong Soo, who did have a school. I believe that GM Hong considered GM Kim to be his teacher, perhaps even more than GM Hwang.

Kang Duk Won GM PARK Chull Hee also said that he considered GM Kim to be his senior and that he learned many things from him. He said that GM Kim and GM YOON Byung In, his original teacher, both learned Karate from the same person, TOYAMA Kanken Sensei.

Anyway, at some point, I believe that GM Kim had to leave Korea. I can't remember the reason but he had to leave. GM HWANG Kee heard about this and so he promoted GM Kim to Moo Duk Kwan 7th Dan (like the Chung Do Kwan, the highest rank available at the time) so he would have a credential to leave. At that point, I believe that GM Kim had not been active in the martial arts for years.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I'm moving this discussion to a new thread. I think we go off on tangents and it might be more helpful to give some of this discussions their own space.



I forget exactly how it went down, but from what I remember, GM KIM Ki Whang received dan ranking from TOYAMA Kanken Sensei while studying in Japan. When he came back to Korea, he did not open a dojang but instead did befriend and taught certain individuals such as Moo Duk Kwan GM HONG Chong Soo, who did have a school. I believe that GM Hong considered GM Kim to be his teacher, perhaps even more than GM Hwang.

Kang Duk Won GM PARK Chull Hee also said that he considered GM Kim to be his senior and that he learned many things from him. He said that GM Kim and GM YOON Byung In, his original teacher, both learned Karate from the same person, TOYAMA Kanken Sensei.

Anyway, at some point, I believe that GM Kim had to leave Korea. I can't remember the reason but he had to leave. GM HWANG Kee heard about this and so he promoted GM Kim to Moo Duk Kwan 7th Dan (like the Chung Do Kwan, the highest rank available at the time) so he would have a credential to leave. At that point, I believe that GM Kim had not been active in the martial arts for years.

Yes, that's what I had heard as well.

[FONT=&quot]Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim introduced Hwang Kee to a good friend of his from the Shudokan, Byung In Yoon (founder of the Chang Moo Kwan), who had opened the YMCA Kwon Bup Bu in Seoul, Korea in the mid 1940's. Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim was not actively training or teaching in the martial arts during this time, but noted that Hwang Kee was always interested in Byung In Yoon’s Karate and Ch’uan Fa.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] After South Korean President Rhee Syng-man was deposed in a student uprising and the short-lived civilian government overthrown in a coup d'tat, anyone involved in a government position found themselves in trouble. Because Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim had helped Hwang Kee at the Transportation Administration, Hwang Kee wanted to return the favor. Hwang Kee convinced Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim that he should go to America, but no one would give him a letter of recommendation. So, Hwang Kee said he would write a letter of recommendation from the Moo Duk Kwan if Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim would be the Moo Duk Kwan representative in America. Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim wasn’t involved in martial arts at the time and didn’t belong to any organization. So, he accepted the offer and immigrated to Washington D.C., in the United States in 1963. [/FONT]

 

[puunui]

Yes, that's what I had heard as well.

[FONT=&quot]Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim introduced Hwang Kee to a good friend of his from the Shudokan, Byung In Yoon (founder of the Chang Moo Kwan), who had opened the YMCA Kwon Bup Bu in Seoul, Korea in the mid 1940's. Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim was not actively training or teaching in the martial arts during this time, but noted that Hwang Kee was always interested in Byung In Yoon’s Karate and Ch’uan Fa.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] After South Korean President Rhee Syng-man was deposed in a student uprising and the short-lived civilian government overthrown in a coup d'tat, anyone involved in a government position found themselves in trouble. Because Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim had helped Hwang Kee at the Transportation Administration, Hwang Kee wanted to return the favor. Hwang Kee convinced Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim that he should go to America, but no one would give him a letter of recommendation. So, Hwang Kee said he would write a letter of recommendation from the Moo Duk Kwan if Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim would be the Moo Duk Kwan representative in America. Grandmaster Ki Whang Kim wasn’t involved in martial arts at the time and didn’t belong to any organization. So, he accepted the offer and immigrated to Washington D.C., in the United States in 1963. [/FONT]

I read that before, but can't remember where. Where did you get that from?

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I read that before, but can't remember where. Where did you get that from?

A few years back I started compiling info I've found from various books, magazines, and online sources into a journal/book in progress. I put all the references in the back, but early on I neglected put reference numbers with each particular piece of info. I THINK that came from an interview from KIM Ki Whang, but I can't say for sure.. .

 

[Miles]

Do you know which years GM KIM, Ki Whang was not teaching? In GM Richard Chun's MDK books (Ohara/Black Belt Mag), he mentions training under both GM HONG, Chong Soo and GM KIM, Ki Whang as a youth.

 

[puunui]

Do you know which years GM KIM, Ki Whang was not teaching? In GM Richard Chun's MDK books (Ohara/Black Belt Mag), he mentions training under both GM HONG, Chong Soo and GM KIM, Ki Whang as a youth.

I think it was in the very beginning when GM HONG Chong Soo first opened his dojang. I asked GM Hong about this but I forget what his answer was. I remember he really respected GM KIM Ki Whang and felt he learned a lot from him, perhaps more than he learned from GM HWANG Kee. GM Hong was one of the leaders that took the Moo Duk Kwan away from GM Hwang and joined the Taekwondo movement. When GM Kim passed away, GM Hong got the KTA to issue GM Kim an Honorary 10th Dan.

 

[rmclain]

A few years back I started compiling info I've found from various books, magazines, and online sources into a journal/book in progress. I put all the references in the back, but early on I neglected put reference numbers with each particular piece of info. I THINK that came from an interview from KIM Ki Whang, but I can't say for sure.. .

I wrote that.

http://www.kimsookarate.com/contributions/kimKiwhangLegacy/kimkiwhang.pdf

R. McLain

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I wrote that.

http://www.kimsookarate.com/contributions/kimKiwhangLegacy/kimkiwhang.pdf

R. McLain

I thank you for your valuable contributions. I admire your work & appreciate your efforts to document a confusing time period in our Art's history by forever preserving the words of some who were there when it was all happening. THANKS!

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I wrote that.

http://www.kimsookarate.com/contributions/kimKiwhangLegacy/kimkiwhang.pdf

R. McLain

Thank you sir for speaking up, I've added the appropriate footnotes now

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I remember GM KIM Ki Whang and his superstar students that used to compete at the circuit of tournaments that we used to go to. Albert Cheeks, Mike Warren, and John Critzos III were the three that really stuck out in my mind. I know Mitchell Bobrow was his student as well, but I don't remember him as much, although I know he started Otomix.

Now the only one of his students that comes around is Master John Critzos III, he is the "Karate" instructor at the Naval Academy in Annapolis.

Man those were the days! (of spectating, I was just a kid.. .)

 

[puunui]

I know Mitchell Bobrow was his student as well, but I don't remember him as much, although I know he started Otomix.

Master Bobrow was a regular at USTU national events. Really nice guy, and he made a fortune with Otomix, especially the women's workout clothes.

 

[Kinghercules]

Interesting info.
From what GM Ki Whang Kim told me, my day and Albert Cheeks; he had left Korea because he had killed someone. I dont know if he was jokin or not but GM Cheeks tells me he was serious.

Now from one think GM Kim loved to do was lecture in class. We would warm up and for the rest of the class he would give a lecture on something......anything. And he talked alot about being in Korea and trainin under Toyama Kanken. I dont recall him ever sayin that he wasnt interested in teachin (I could be wrong). After he left China and returned to Korea he was workin for one of the universities and teachin, I believe Chang Do Kwon at the YMCA. I know it was him and some other guy teachin at the YMCA. I recall clearly that GM Kim said he taught Hwang Kee the Kibons and Pians and the other Japanese form. But like I said, he neva made it seem like wasnt active in the martial arts for a long time. Maybe in competing he wasnt. I know he told us he was a champion fighter in Japan, China & Korea. Because by the time GM Ki Whang Kim came to the States he was about 34.

 

[puunui]

I know he told us he was a champion fighter in Japan, China & Korea. Because by the time GM Ki Whang Kim came to the States he was about 34.

I want to say he was born in 1920, so he was older than 34 when he came to the United States. Let me ask you this though, since you knew him. I understand that he used to wear an Aikido hakama (skirt) in class. What was his Aikido background, if any?

 

[Kinghercules]

I want to say he was born in 1920, so he was older than 34 when he came to the United States. Let me ask you this though, since you knew him. I understand that he used to wear an Aikido hakama (skirt) in class. What was his Aikido background, if any?

I started trainin in the 80's and I dont remember seein him in one.
Cheeks told me that he had brought over two Aikido masters from Japan to teach Aikido classes.

 

[puunui]

I started trainin in the 80's and I dont remember seein him in one.
Cheeks told me that he had brought over two Aikido masters from Japan to teach Aikido classes.

Did he have Aikido classes when you were there? Did GM Cheeks mention the names of the Aikido instructors from Japan? I ask because there are some famous Aikido teachers in the DC area and I am wondering if there is any relationship there.

 

[Kinghercules]

Did he have Aikido classes when you were there? Did GM Cheeks mention the names of the Aikido instructors from Japan? I ask because there are some famous Aikido teachers in the DC area and I am wondering if there is any relationship there.

Of course we had Aikido class!!
Aikdo & Judo.
That was my favorite time of trainin. :lol:

Yeah he told me but I for got their names. I'll have to call him in the morning. GM Kim had sent Cheeks to train with an Aikido instructor for some time but the two he told me about had open up a school in VA at one of the univ. Ill ask him tho.