Kenpo Ground Fighting

K831

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The one other area that some of the competitors who come out combatives nights really struggle (my new FMA instructor runs an MMA program and a boxing program, so they sometimes trickle into the other classes out of curiosity or because they get to know the few of us who do both) is on the take-down. It really takes a while for a lot of them to get their heads around this. Just watching any MMA event will show someone that as soon as a good grappler gets popped good in the head or is taking some abuse in the stand up, he shoots or clinches. In MMA, I don't blame them, because it is much harder to punish them for it. What happens repeatedly in the combatives class however, is that they shoot and when they don't get the shot, they continue to drive for it (just like you see in MMA competitions all the time). Problem is, while they drive for the single or push me up against the wall and hang on, I WILL use downward elbows on the back of the head, neck and spine. I will punt them when they have one knee on the ground. I will tear into their eyes while they drive the shot or clinch. I will use my other hand to draw my (rubber) knife they work for the take-down, sweep, for under hooks, hip control or whatever. They are SO CONDITIONED to drive for the take-down and so conditioned not to have to worry about any of that, that they give it no thought, and it takes numerous pummeling at 1/4 power for them to realize the dangers in shooting, but in particular, the dangers in pressing it if they don't get the take-down clean the first time.

There was one big guy 225 or so who wrestled at the state uni here who came in. Tough athletic kid. I'm 185ish lean and he watched me one night giving it good to the other grapplers and stood right up and said "I'll take you down". Well, I'm scrappy but not stupid, and I knew he likely would. I told him to change and jump in. While he was changing I grabbed one of my hard plastic training knives and put it in my pants under my shirt. He came back out and we started moving around. He pressed just enough for me to start letting my hands go and as soon as I did, shot under a punch and got me... slammed me hard to, but all that weight came down on that hard plastic tip and the point was made. Would have rung me good on pavement, maybe knocked me out....but he would have died. It's just a different way of thinking.
 

ATACX GYM

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You know, I actually haven't given this idea much thought in the past (at least not in the way you are framing it) so I don't have a fully developed opinion.

Most of my training has been SD oriented, but I have competed too. I wrestled in high school, did some local boxing competitions and did a few regional MMA competitions back in the early 2000's.

My observations;

The wrestling and boxing were pretty easy to adapt to competition, since they are taught from that paradigm anyways.

Here is the negatives I found in trying to go from SD to competition (as I have popped in and out of competition off and on throughout my martial arts journey); As I spent more and more time with Kenpo and similar arts, my nuero muscular memory began to change, conditioned reactions changed etc. Immediate responses, second nature, no thought required responses became kicks to the groin and knee, open handed strikes to the throat, finger whips and jabs, elbows to the throat, spine and back of the head, hammer fists to the groin, and small joint breaks (fingers and wrist....) etc. They were so ingrained that when trying to compete later on, I realized I had to drop the vast majority of my arsenal, and that required constant "thinking in the ring" and thus hesitation.

In addition, my defenses changed. For example, as a boxer/kickboxer, I would simply "cover" using typical elbow blocks that any boxer or kickboxer uses, or I would slip / duck ets. While kenpo and Escrima use these same techniques, there is much more emphasis on open handed checks, traps, jams, fanning and parry's. Why? Obviously there are many reasons, but just as one example, while someone swing a fist at you (especially a gloved one) can be dealt with by covering (elbow block) or slipping, this can be very dangerous if the attacker had a knife that you missed. So, where as the boxer would be sliced up quickly blocking that way, the Kenpoist or FMA practitioner has a defensive skill set better suited to dealing with the edged weapon. Same applies to dealing with the changing angles a skilled club user will attack with. Arts like Kenpo, Krav Maga and many FMA's have built in defenses for that situation that a kickboxer just isn't equipped with. This presented a problem however, because once my hands were wrapped and gloved, I couldn't check, trap and parry to the same degree, and I had to struggle and adjust again. The same is the case with gunting in filipino arts. It' a great defensive/offensive technique that works particularly well with something in the hand (knife, pen, pencil etc) and can be made to work in some situations with knuckles - it is rendered useless in the ring with gloves however (which is why you get ***-clowns like Joe Rogan claiming such arts with trapping etc are worthless hence not in MMA).

So that is my thoughts and examples as to the difficulty of going from a primarily SD and combatives style to competition. It takes some real re-wiring of the current programming.

Now, as to the argument I would make in support of your statement; The above examples indicate that a person coming from a SD art simply has to dumb down what he knows to compete. However, someone coming from a competition only background simply has not been exposed to and is not aware of the many aspects of SD. This is why the MMA guys who come to our combatives class get stabbed and cut to death with our rubber chalk knives, and shot repeatedly with airsoft guns. They simply have no clue how to deal with it, and most genuinely thought that since they were bad a$$ in the ring/cage, surely they were in the street. Watching them deal with some of the combatives stuff (multi-attackers and weapons) is laughable.

To their credit though, they are in shape (which many self defense guys skimp on) they are aggressive (because they spar all the time, again which many SD guys skimp on) and they have a good sense of distance and timing from that sparring, they just have never seen or thought about how to use distance and timing when the variables change. I know that many TMA and SD arts do use live drills and sparring etc.. but unfortunately the mcdojo syndrome took over for a long time, and we got a bad rep as a result.

^^^I love this guy! Lolol.

My experiences run this gamut as well.I have found that it takes LESS training to transition from SD to sport combatives,but it DOES TAKE TRAINING.The mindsets are different,and the pride that we acquire from obtaining real skill in SD can take a drubbing if we don't make the MENTAL adjustment during sport combatives so that we perform well under those circumstances.Once we make the MENTAL adjustment and become comfy? The sport game is much easier.We ALREADY HAVE those skills,we just need to tweak them in a particular fashion...which can only come from training and sparring them in a specific way over a specific period of time.For me? It takes about 2 weeks for me to fully setlle into the groove of sport stuff.Moderate contact point fighting karate is the hardest transition for me because even the way I trained my Karate base (Kenpo) contains a great deal of violence that could land me in jail if I were to pull these things off in a tourney.However,I've long known this so I focus on sequences and setups that are both devastating enough to satisfy my tastes and fully legal in point tournies.

Which actually leads to another very interesting discussion: I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYBODY PULL OFF ANY OF THE SELF-DEFENSE SEQUENCES IN TOURNIES.And you know what? My friend Clark aka kenpoteacher is the only other person besides myself or my martial arts bloodkin who both noted this and either suggested the use of various self-defense techniques in tournies.I used the BKF+my ATACX GYM juiced up version of the ALTERNATING MACES,5 Swords,Tripping Arrow (usually applied at the end of a combination,and I HAVE NEVER FAILED TO TAKE MY OPPONENT DOWN) and a whole plethora of other techniques.Now I will stop this here in order to avoid veering off onto a tangent,but I definitely think that the LACK of SPARRING AND TOURNEY USE of the 72 Self-Defense sequences are utterly essential.

Okay back to the main point of this thread and your well thought out posts,K831
 

ATACX GYM

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The one other area that some of the competitors who come out combatives nights really struggle (my new FMA instructor runs an MMA program and a boxing program, so they sometimes trickle into the other classes out of curiosity or because they get to know the few of us who do both) is on the take-down. It really takes a while for a lot of them to get their heads around this. Just watching any MMA event will show someone that as soon as a good grappler gets popped good in the head or is taking some abuse in the stand up, he shoots or clinches. In MMA, I don't blame them, because it is much harder to punish them for it. What happens repeatedly in the combatives class however, is that they shoot and when they don't get the shot, they continue to drive for it (just like you see in MMA competitions all the time). Problem is, while they drive for the single or push me up against the wall and hang on, I WILL use downward elbows on the back of the head, neck and spine. I will punt them when they have one knee on the ground. I will tear into their eyes while they drive the shot or clinch. I will use my other hand to draw my (rubber) knife they work for the take-down, sweep, for under hooks, hip control or whatever. They are SO CONDITIONED to drive for the take-down and so conditioned not to have to worry about any of that, that they give it no thought, and it takes numerous pummeling at 1/4 power for them to realize the dangers in shooting, but in particular, the dangers in pressing it if they don't get the take-down clean the first time.

There was one big guy 225 or so who wrestled at the state uni here who came in. Tough athletic kid. I'm 185ish lean and he watched me one night giving it good to the other grapplers and stood right up and said "I'll take you down". Well, I'm scrappy but not stupid, and I knew he likely would. I told him to change and jump in. While he was changing I grabbed one of my hard plastic training knives and put it in my pants under my shirt. He came back out and we started moving around. He pressed just enough for me to start letting my hands go and as soon as I did, shot under a punch and got me... slammed me hard to, but all that weight came down on that hard plastic tip and the point was made. Would have rung me good on pavement, maybe knocked me out....but he would have died. It's just a different way of thinking.


I find that both TMA and MMA-style guys tend to suck at the takedown,especially in the SD environment...usually because neither of them have been sufficiently introduced to the reality of weapons.I lol'd and texted my brother after I read your post about the 225 pound guy.I've deployed a finger nail clipper--YES A FINGER NAIL CLIPPER--with devastating effect while grappling on the ground one time.I was being handily handled by a talented bjj purple with 2 stripes (on his way to brown) when I snapped off a head butt (HARD) to his abdomen,Snaking Talone'd him (didn't get his eyes but he momentarily thrust him head out the way while seeking a devilish closed guard sweep) I disentangled his grip,dipped into thee ole sweats pocket and pulled out the finger nail clipper then got tuh clippin away on the tender inner thigh meat.His reaction was one for the ages.Then it was Dance of Death time,and game over.Lolololol.

Now,I'm 154lbs. at fighting trim and sometimes I'll power up to 158-60,and when I'm doing my hardcore superhealthy diet (which I'm making a vow to stick to from now on) I drop to 150-155 pounds,but with that "disproportionate strength of elite gymnasts and Bulgarian powerlifters",as a strength and conditioning coach once described me.Lololol.I face collegiate,university,and MMA wrestlers of 185-240 all the time.Sometimes I face judoka of up to 315 pounds.The takedown is a given in many instances...but sometimes it's ME doing the takedown on THEM,and it's never an EASY takedown for them when they DO get me down.

But every single time they take me down--even my wonderful fellow judoka with the ferocious and greatly underestimated gripping systems that judo is becoming more and more infamous for-- I note that I can get a good eye gouge off if I wanted to,and sometimes I 'poke' them on their eyebrows or the sides of their eyes to make my point ironclad.

What do you think about this scenario?
 

KenpoOG

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I think that I am getting emotional over here. A quality discussion without at least one person breaking in with the ever so educated response of" Then why dont we see Kenpo in the UFC?"

BTW, my response is always" You DO see them brain trust, they are called punches. Kenpo=Fist Law. Do the math.
 

ATACX GYM

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i think that i am getting emotional over here. A quality discussion without at least one person breaking in with the ever so educated response of" then why dont we see kenpo in the ufc?"

btw, my response is always" you do see them brain trust, they are called punches. Kenpo=fist law. Do the math.


ahahahahahaha!!!!
 

Thesemindz

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So tonight before class I went in early and took our B.O.B. (body opponent bag) off his base and laid him down on the floor. Then I spent about half an hour practicing all of our techniques through the black belt level against the B.O.B. from mount, rear mount, guard, rear guard, side mount, and scarf position.

Of course, not all the techniques applied exactly, and some didn't apply at all, but I was trying to explore where the striking and grappling combinations could be applied from each position. I also practiced full power strikes from each position and blocks and grapples in the air as well as position transfers.

I really enjoyed this. I got a great sweat on, I got to practice some full power strikes from ground positions and really explore where and how I can generate power while on the ground. The theme of tonight's class was Up/Down techniques, so we then went on to apply many of these same ideas during class itself.

We finished class with one minute exhibition rounds of ground fighting to dominance or submission and then I gave each of my students a chance for a round against me. It went really well and we all had a great time and learned a lot.

I also wanted to comment on the discussion upthread about takedowns. In this class, my students worked takedowns from the front, side, and rear, as well as sacrifice takedowns and falling with an opponent. We practiced falling into ground positions, and fighting out of ground positions. We practiced taking the opponent down and then attacking him with hands and feet and weapons from a standing position and we practiced defending against takedowns using sprawls and strikes. Kenpo has a ton of takedowns and takedown defenses, and they work if you practice them aggressively.

If you haven't put the B.O.B. on the ground and worked your techniques against him, I recommend it. I got a lot out of it and I'll definitely do it again. If you don't have a B.O.B., a heavy bag will do. Or even the top of a Wavemaster in a pinch.

Like I said, not everything translates perfectly. You have to look for the "situational approaches that are interchangeable." But many of the techniques, and many of the parts of the techniques, are directly applicable to the ground. Give it a shot. It's an eye opener.


-Rob
 

ATACX GYM

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So tonight before class I went in early and took our B.O.B. (body opponent bag) off his base and laid him down on the floor. Then I spent about half an hour practicing all of our techniques through the black belt level against the B.O.B. from mount, rear mount, guard, rear guard, side mount, and scarf position.

Of course, not all the techniques applied exactly, and some didn't apply at all, but I was trying to explore where the striking and grappling combinations could be applied from each position. I also practiced full power strikes from each position and blocks and grapples in the air as well as position transfers.

I really enjoyed this. I got a great sweat on, I got to practice some full power strikes from ground positions and really explore where and how I can generate power while on the ground. The theme of tonight's class was Up/Down techniques, so we then went on to apply many of these same ideas during class itself.

We finished class with one minute exhibition rounds of ground fighting to dominance or submission and then I gave each of my students a chance for a round against me. It went really well and we all had a great time and learned a lot.

I also wanted to comment on the discussion upthread about takedowns. In this class, my students worked takedowns from the front, side, and rear, as well as sacrifice takedowns and falling with an opponent. We practiced falling into ground positions, and fighting out of ground positions. We practiced taking the opponent down and then attacking him with hands and feet and weapons from a standing position and we practiced defending against takedowns using sprawls and strikes. Kenpo has a ton of takedowns and takedown defenses, and they work if you practice them aggressively.

If you haven't put the B.O.B. on the ground and worked your techniques against him, I recommend it. I got a lot out of it and I'll definitely do it again. If you don't have a B.O.B., a heavy bag will do. Or even the top of a Wavemaster in a pinch.

Like I said, not everything translates perfectly. You have to look for the "situational approaches that are interchangeable." But many of the techniques, and many of the parts of the techniques, are directly applicable to the ground. Give it a shot. It's an eye opener.


-Rob

How'd you do with Falcons of Force,Snakes of Wisdom and Courting The Tiger,etc? I've spent an entire class working on Falcons of Force alone.However,it's not uncommon for me to spend a week on the gajillion variants of one tech (meaning we do the same or very similar responses to whatever the attack is,just adjusted for weapons,multiple opponents,and the tactical goal of the drill like ESCAPE or RESCUE or both) and make it really fun in the process.I even identify where in our katas these techs are and create isolated drills where I make 2-man katas become isolated sparring.I use a little creativity.Like this: take,say,Short 1-3.Have one student use the blocks and movements from Short 1,whereas the other student can use the attacks from Short 2 or 3.They can ONLY use those techs...and have them go step by step through the form.Short 1 student defends,Short 2-3 attacks.By the 3rd time through,I let the Short 2-3 student use whatever order of attacks from the form that they want...and encourage the student using Short 1 to ATTACK with the blocks too (the blocks become hammerfist+forearm strikes with even some elbow strike action thrown in),thus making the student using Short 2-3 employ THE BLOCKS IN THOSE FORMS. Change roles now...the student formerly doing Short 1 is now doing short 2-3 and vice versa. Then let them spar with those techs.I do this with my beginners too...I just limit them to Short 1 only and make them see how they can use the blocks-strikes in sooo many scenarios.While mounted,I make them block the opponent's body,thighs,etc. and hammerfist these areas at the same time.We use the blocks to fight off chokes,grabs,weapons and holds,sweeps and help us scramble back to our feet,etc.You get the idea.

They learn HELLA FAST,man.They never get bored.They start coming to me with new ways of using techs or more importantly,circumstances I haven't thought of to use the techs (one of my students told me that he was playing PS3 with his brother,his brother was winning...until he used the Short 1 blocks to disarm him of the game controller,then bow stanced directly through and on top of his brother,stomping on his brother's unsuspecting hand in the process.While his brother was thus distracted,he won the game they were playing.Lololol. After he and I laughed about it,I made him do our Basics Calisthenics drill twice nonstop) and we begin to see that there is sooo much repetition of techs as we progress in Kenpo...if we bother to learn each tech in depth.
 

SenseiHitman

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KenpoJuJitsu3

Here are some clips of James Hawkins doing some Kenpo and some grappling in a few of the clips. IMO, this is a better example of what things should look like.

Yes, I agree with you, that looked like Kempo, he was not just speed slapping a statue he was taking control, and he is totally right, "slow the H*LL down". This video was refreshing to see. I also saw a brief clip of Speakman performing his 5.0 and that was also refreshing.
I got my black belts in both Jujitsu and Kenpo back in the1990s. I was very active then, and kept my eye on the other various methods taught at that time, however, since then I have retied to just training on my own with a couple select students, so it is as if I have been sleeping in a cave for a long time. unaware of the recent developments. When I went to sleep, Kenpo was over commercialized and in disarray. Recently,I began researching whats out their now, and in my opinion, Functional Kenpo and Kenpo 5.0 are the future. I hope to see more like this and less of the slap happy fake bull sh*t.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Yes, I agree with you, that looked like Kempo, he was not just speed slapping a statue he was taking control, and he is totally right, "slow the H*LL down". This video was refreshing to see. I also saw a brief clip of Speakman performing his 5.0 and that was also refreshing.
I got my black belts in both Jujitsu and Kenpo back in the1990s. I was very active then, and kept my eye on the other various methods taught at that time, however, since then I have retied to just training on my own with a couple select students, so it is as if I have been sleeping in a cave for a long time. unaware of the recent developments. When I went to sleep, Kenpo was over commercialized and in disarray. Recently,I began researching whats out their now, and in my opinion, Functional Kenpo and Kenpo 5.0 are the future. I hope to see more like this and less of the slap happy fake bull sh*t.
Out of curiosity, what are your ranks in the arts you practice? I assumed until now that you were primarily a beginner based on your posts, but from this I'm guessing that is not the case. Also, your age changed on your profile from 13 to 47. I'm assuming that the 47 is correct and the 13 was just a technical issue with the site?
 

Touch Of Death

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Yes, I agree with you, that looked like Kempo, he was not just speed slapping a statue he was taking control, and he is totally right, "slow the H*LL down". This video was refreshing to see. I also saw a brief clip of Speakman performing his 5.0 and that was also refreshing.
I got my black belts in both Jujitsu and Kenpo back in the1990s. I was very active then, and kept my eye on the other various methods taught at that time, however, since then I have retied to just training on my own with a couple select students, so it is as if I have been sleeping in a cave for a long time. unaware of the recent developments. When I went to sleep, Kenpo was over commercialized and in disarray. Recently,I began researching whats out their now, and in my opinion, Functional Kenpo and Kenpo 5.0 are the future. I hope to see more like this and less of the slap happy fake bull sh*t.
There is nothing wrong with the slap if you are using points of reference. It is often poorly imitated but there is a logic to it.
 

SenseiHitman

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Out of curiosity, what are your ranks in the arts you practice? I assumed until now that you were primarily a beginner based on your posts, but from this I'm guessing that is not the case. Also, your age changed on your profile from 13 to 47. I'm assuming that the 47 is correct and the 13 was just a technical issue with the site?

5th degree black belt Way of Kempo Kenpo Karate. 2nd degree black belt Tsuru Michi Jujitsu. 1st degree black belt Way of Kempo Kempo Jujitsu . Instructor Way of Kempo Kempo Bojitsu. Yes I am 47, I would never claim to be 13, it was a tech. issue with the site.
 
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Chris Parker

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Out of curiosity, what are your ranks in the arts you practice? I assumed until now that you were primarily a beginner based on your posts, but from this I'm guessing that is not the case. Also, your age changed on your profile from 13 to 47. I'm assuming that the 47 is correct and the 13 was just a technical issue with the site?

Just a possibility here… are you perhaps confusing "SenseiHitman" with "SenseiBlackBelt"… who is 13, and very much a beginner?
 

AIKIKENJITSU

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[yt]dVC3Fnr5kB0[/yt]


http://ltatum.com/movies/Week22/TipOfTheWeekMedW22.html


Here are 2 clips of whats being called grappling or ground fighting, in Kenpo. My intent isn't to bash the guys in the clips, but instead, to analyze and discuss the clips. I'm looking to discuss things such as...

What did you like/dislike about the clips?

What would you do or have done differently?

Do you think that the defenses that were presented were effective? Why/why not?

Just a few things to get the ball rolling. :) You dont have to limit your replies to just those questions. And as always, this discussion is open to non Kenpoists as well. :)
lI couldn't see your ground techs, but that's OK. I'm an old Kenpoist that can still do Kenpo very well. I have taught both Tracy and Ed Parker starting 1973. I had a school for4 20 years and I always just taught adults. I stayed with American Kenpo, but it was incomplete. For one, there are no ground techs. I am 5'2" slim and Gracie jujitsu that some Kenpo schools are teaching is not for every one. Kenpo schools that are teaching two arts, is not a Kenpo school in my eyes. For one, Kenpo should be Kenpo. I have kept Kenpo but have developed 52 ground techniques to get you off the ground and onto your feet in seconds. I have also created techs up to 10th degree black and I have not accepted another art into my Kenpo curriculum. Many stludents can't do Gracie techs and some don't want it. It is ground fighting and wrestling on the ground. I do not believe you should be on the ground longer than a few seconds. .
AKJ-American Kenpo
Sifu 10th degree black
 

gpseymour

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lI couldn't see your ground techs, but that's OK. I'm an old Kenpoist that can still do Kenpo very well. I have taught both Tracy and Ed Parker starting 1973. I had a school for4 20 years and I always just taught adults. I stayed with American Kenpo, but it was incomplete. For one, there are no ground techs. I am 5'2" slim and Gracie jujitsu that some Kenpo schools are teaching is not for every one. Kenpo schools that are teaching two arts, is not a Kenpo school in my eyes. For one, Kenpo should be Kenpo. I have kept Kenpo but have developed 52 ground techniques to get you off the ground and onto your feet in seconds. I have also created techs up to 10th degree black and I have not accepted another art into my Kenpo curriculum. Many stludents can't do Gracie techs and some don't want it. It is ground fighting and wrestling on the ground. I do not believe you should be on the ground longer than a few seconds. .
AKJ-American Kenpo
Sifu 10th degree black
Why does a Kenpo school no longer count as a Kenpo school if they offer additional arts?
 

drop bear

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Why does a Kenpo school no longer count as a Kenpo school if they offer additional arts?

And more interestingly why would developing techniques be any more faithful to the spirit of kempo than just stealing some cool moves from other arts?

The advantage with just stealing moves would be you could use techniques from guys who have a clue as to what they are doing.
 
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gpseymour

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And more interestingly why would developing techniques be any more faithful to the spirit of kempo than just stealing some cool moves from other arts?

The advantage with just stealing moves would be you could use techniques from guys who have a clue as to what they are doing.
That was the other thought going on in my head (I'm not sure where else I'd have thoughts going on...maybe I don't want to know). If I make up some ground moves from what I know in NGA, I can make sure they work against the folks I train with. If I steal cool stuff from BJJ, Judo, or wrestling, I know they'll work against people who are better at ground work than the folks I train with.
 

Headhunter

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And more interestingly why would developing techniques be any more faithful to the spirit of kempo than just stealing some cool moves from other arts?

The advantage with just stealing moves would be you could use techniques from guys who have a clue as to what they are doing.
It's not. Kenpo was always meant to be something that continued to evolve so using other systems is absolutely something ed Parker wanted and would've done had he not passed away when he did, it's a shame because he died in 1991 so 2 years before UFC started. Ed Parker was also a judo guy as well so he had grappling knowledge and with UFC he would've added more to kenpo. From what I've seen of this guy he's trying to sound clever that he's developed his own brand new techniques
 

Headhunter

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lI couldn't see your ground techs, but that's OK. I'm an old Kenpoist that can still do Kenpo very well. I have taught both Tracy and Ed Parker starting 1973. I had a school for4 20 years and I always just taught adults. I stayed with American Kenpo, but it was incomplete. For one, there are no ground techs. I am 5'2" slim and Gracie jujitsu that some Kenpo schools are teaching is not for every one. Kenpo schools that are teaching two arts, is not a Kenpo school in my eyes. For one, Kenpo should be Kenpo. I have kept Kenpo but have developed 52 ground techniques to get you off the ground and onto your feet in seconds. I have also created techs up to 10th degree black and I have not accepted another art into my Kenpo curriculum. Many stludents can't do Gracie techs and some don't want it. It is ground fighting and wrestling on the ground. I do not believe you should be on the ground longer than a few seconds. .
AKJ-American Kenpo
Sifu 10th degree black
No you shouldn't be on the ground for more than a few seconds....but what happens if you are? Because no matter how good your kenpo is and your brand new techniques are you get put on your back by a good wrestler your going to struggle getting him off you same with a bjj guy. Yes you can get him off but it won't be easy. Does your techniques take into consideration a good grappler or are you basing it on a guy with no training and have you tested your techniques against real grapplers in a live situation?
 
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