Is this a red flag?

Tez3

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We don't allow people to just turn up and watch ( not that they can just turn up), you have to phone us and tell us when you want come, then we will make arrangements for you, it will involve being escorted at all times and we can't have non Brits in unless they are accredited military from an allied country.
 

jks9199

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We don't allow people to just turn up and watch ( not that they can just turn up), you have to phone us and tell us when you want come, then we will make arrangements for you, it will involve being escorted at all times and we can't have non Brits in unless they are accredited military from an allied country.
But aren't those rules driven by the facility, not the teacher? I have an acquaintance who teaches in an FBI office; non-LE (and really, non-FBI) visitors need advance planning...
 

Tez3

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But aren't those rules driven by the facility, not the teacher? I have an acquaintance who teaches in an FBI office; non-LE (and really, non-FBI) visitors need advance planning...

Absolutely! It does make a good excuse not to let people watch though lol. It's more that we don't have room and many of us don't really like being watched when we are breathing through our **** during training lol.

Here now because of child protection policies there's a lot of places know not just martial arts that won't allow adults to come and watch children's classes unless they are with a child who is potential student.
 

jks9199

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Here now because of child protection policies there's a lot of places know not just martial arts that won't allow adults to come and watch children's classes unless they are with a child who is potential student.
I don't know that I quite agree with that line -- though your child protection laws are undoubtedly different from ours. I would think that the more open a setting is -- the less opportunity for something untoward to happen. I know that's the philosophy that underlies the current rules in the Boy Scouts of America and also within functions at my church -- that kids aren't to be secluded with adults.
 

JowGaWolf

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I don't know that I quite agree with that line -- though your child protection laws are undoubtedly different from ours. I would think that the more open a setting is -- the less opportunity for something untoward to happen. I know that's the philosophy that underlies the current rules in the Boy Scouts of America and also within functions at my church -- that kids aren't to be secluded with adults.
It's never good to be alone with someone else's kid like that even if the person is a good guy who would never harm a child. Unfortunately not every kid is an angel and some children will lie to put an adult in trouble. Not being alone is as much for protecting the adult as it is the child. It's a win - win for both sides. Children won't be taken advantage of and adults will be protected from a child who would want to lie. When I was working in youth development it was always policy and employees were always warned and reminded that children aren't always truthful and some of the meanest lies will come from a child's mouth. Open settings with multiple people children and adults is the safest environment all around.
 
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Spinoza

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Well, I'd like to thank everyone again for their input. I've visited about 10 schools to get an idea of what I would like to practice and with whom, and I've settled on a wonderful Judo program run as a nonprofit out of a local community center. As competitive as Judo can be, the students were extremely helpful towards one another and highly supportive of the students who weren't yet in as good of shape as the rest of the class (which will include me starting next weekend).
 

Tez3

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I don't know that I quite agree with that line -- though your child protection laws are undoubtedly different from ours. I would think that the more open a setting is -- the less opportunity for something untoward to happen. I know that's the philosophy that underlies the current rules in the Boy Scouts of America and also within functions at my church -- that kids aren't to be secluded with adults.


The parents are there with them, it's rare now that a sports class doesn't have parents watching. Adults who have nothing to do with the sport/activity or the children aren't allowed watch children's classes.
 

lklawson

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I've settled on a wonderful Judo program run as a nonprofit out of a local community center.
Perfect! :)

As competitive as Judo can be, the students were extremely helpful towards one another and highly supportive of the students who weren't yet in as good of shape as the rest of the class (which will include me starting next weekend).
Depends on the instructor(s) and the club's "personality." Old (OLD!) School Judo used to be a lot less competitive from what I've read and been told. Competition, way back then, was only one facet of Judo, not the entire art. I recall finding an old BB Mag from the late '60s (ims) where a Judoka wrote in bemoaning how the Olympics had sportified Judo and the emphasis on competition was running off older Judoka who couldn't compete any more and people who just weren't interested in competition.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Chris Parker

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H'mmm....

I can respect, to an extent, the idea that they're more concerned with their own students training and with safety in the training hall than a prospective student. I've heard it expressed more elegantly in some discussions of Japanese koryu arts and some more traditional Japanese dojos. (I think Dave Lowry wrote something about it…)

Yeah… to be fair, I haven't come across anything quite to that degree in Koryu at all… sure, there can be more hoops to jump through (in order to watch a class, I went through a series of emails, and an "in person" sit down with the instructor away from the class to simply watch a training session… although I did get to watch more than most), but in the end, we want our arts to survive… which means new students at some point… which means people have to be let into the training. It needs to be approached the right way, but the email exchange that Kirk had…? Nah… nothing like that attitude…

Martial art has often thrived on the notion that they have the secret to the real deadly.

Well… there's actually a lot more to it than that…

Sorry guys the secret is out.

Not all of them… no. Of course, your personal perspective of what a martial art is can alter how you view this concept…

Well, I'd like to thank everyone again for their input. I've visited about 10 schools to get an idea of what I would like to practice and with whom, and I've settled on a wonderful Judo program run as a nonprofit out of a local community center. As competitive as Judo can be, the students were extremely helpful towards one another and highly supportive of the students who weren't yet in as good of shape as the rest of the class (which will include me starting next weekend).

Awesome!
 

Nate1010

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I will never join one of those clubs again. Way to exspensive for what you get. At least in my experience. I started training at a gym that also host a mma camp. Part of the package is bjj and kickboxing as well as other classes all unlimited for a little over 50 per month. Best deal I have ever found. Also very laid back not traditional.
 

ballen0351

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I will never join one of those clubs again. Way to exspensive for what you get. At least in my experience. I started training at a gym that also host a mma camp. Part of the package is bjj and kickboxing as well as other classes all unlimited for a little over 50 per month. Best deal I have ever found. Also very laid back not traditional.
Wow thats very cheap compared to here. BJJ/MMA gyms are double to triple that rate
 

lklawson

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Yeah… to be fair, I haven't come across anything quite to that degree in Koryu at all… sure, there can be more hoops to jump through (in order to watch a class, I went through a series of emails, and an "in person" sit down with the instructor away from the class to simply watch a training session… although I did get to watch more than most), but in the end, we want our arts to survive… which means new students at some point… which means people have to be let into the training. It needs to be approached the right way, but the email exchange that Kirk had…? Nah… nothing like that attitude…
I'm OK with some arts dying.

There are no secrets any more; at least not when it comes to fighting. If someone wants to try to sell the mystique, well, good luck but I doubt that it's an art I would believe is worth preserving. <shrug> Each to his own, I guess.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Touch Of Death

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I'm OK with some arts dying.

There are no secrets any more; at least not when it comes to fighting. If someone wants to try to sell the mystique, well, good luck but I doubt that it's an art I would believe is worth preserving. <shrug> Each to his own, I guess.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Actually, I think there are secrets. Everyone does what they do for a reason, so, they are a master of their concern. In Kenpo, for instance, everyone does it differently, and everybody around them says they are awesome, but, I ain't seeing it, half the time, and neither does any other kenpoist. You try to tell them, and, they scoff at you. So, while nothing is a secret, you would never know it, in Kenpoland. Nobody listens to the secret stuff, anyway. :(
 

Michael Shayne

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I think it's a red flag....it's a business selling a product. Even most conglomerates have a free trial.

I don't believe anyone would pay a fee to test any other product.
 

Tez3

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I don't know that I quite agree with that line -- though your child protection laws are undoubtedly different from ours. I would think that the more open a setting is -- the less opportunity for something untoward to happen. I know that's the philosophy that underlies the current rules in the Boy Scouts of America and also within functions at my church -- that kids aren't to be secluded with adults.


We have parents in, nearly every child has a parent watching and we have adult students who come in to use the weight room. We don't have random adults coming in.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Regarding the second video, is it normal to put that little rotation/power in the punches for wing chun? I can't imagine any of those punches actually hurting me...
WC punches don't use body/hip rotation. It does hurt their power compared to other arts, but skilled practitioners are able to utilize other body dynamics to generate some reasonable impact.

The ladies in that video were not skilled practitioners. I hope that they were all complete beginners, because their technique was pretty bad.
 

JR 137

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I think it's a red flag....it's a business selling a product. Even most conglomerates have a free trial.

I don't believe anyone would pay a fee to test any other product.

In a regular town and under regular conditions, I agree. However...

My system's honbu (headquarters dojo) is in Manhattan. They charge $25 for an intro lesson (rather, lessons). You have to make an appointment because it's a series of 3 private lessons with an instructor.

Furthermore, Manhattan is quite large with a lot of tourists. If you let everyone in the door to watch whenever they wanted to, it has the potential to turn into a tourist attraction. With very limited seating (most of the space is dojo floor space) and parents/spouses/people accompanying students the seating area is already shoulder to shoulder.

If you just show up and ask to watch a class, depending on the time of day and class size, you may get turned down due to space issues. If you call ahead and state why you're coming in, you'll most likely be allowed in or given a timeframe. If you just drop by and ask to watch and it happens to be children's testing night, I highly doubt they'd let you in. Pretty sure they'd be polite and ask that you come back another less hectic time.

And you can't watch through the windows, due to the architecture of the building. You'd have to stand on someone's shoulders, and you'd both have to be pretty tall.

Again, every place has their own unique circumstances. For someone to say this place has to be a McDojo because they charge for intro lessons and won't let people come in and observe isn't exactly fair. Time and place for everything.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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In a regular town and under regular conditions, I agree. However...

My system's honbu (headquarters dojo) is in Manhattan. They charge $25 for an intro lesson (rather, lessons). You have to make an appointment because it's a series of 3 private lessons with an instructor.

Furthermore, Manhattan is quite large with a lot of tourists. If you let everyone in the door to watch whenever they wanted to, it has the potential to turn into a tourist attraction. With very limited seating (most of the space is dojo floor space) and parents/spouses/people accompanying students the seating area is already shoulder to shoulder.

If you just show up and ask to watch a class, depending on the time of day and class size, you may get turned down due to space issues. If you call ahead and state why you're coming in, you'll most likely be allowed in or given a timeframe. If you just drop by and ask to watch and it happens to be children's testing night, I highly doubt they'd let you in. Pretty sure they'd be polite and ask that you come back another less hectic time.

And you can't watch through the windows, due to the architecture of the building. You'd have to stand on someone's shoulders, and you'd both have to be pretty tall.

Again, every place has their own unique circumstances. For someone to say this place has to be a McDojo because they charge for intro lessons and won't let people come in and observe isn't exactly fair. Time and place for everything.
Luckily, if you go 30 minutes out of the city to either Long Island or NJ, there are plenty of places that have no issue with a free lesson or two (or 3) because of the distinct lack of tourists.
 

Buka

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On the subject of children training and people observing them being taught in our dojos - I like to think it's the same as a pride of lions tending their cubs.

If it's any different than that.....nah, I don't believe it. Not one little bit.
 

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