Is this a red flag?

lklawson

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Um well, I'd start trying to tell you how. LOL
Truthfully, I'd probably listen. An exchange of information is often helpful, or at the very least entertaining.

In Judo, for instance, there's at least 4 different variation of every darn throw, not including the old "pre-war" style which is often, well... "less friendly." For instance, there's the "stomping the floor" variation of O Soto Gari. I'm familiar with it from old Boxing manuals (yes, really) and from Danzan Ryu, but I'd never seen it in Judo before a friend sent me a link to a very old B&W film. Who knows what else?

Or Bowie Knife. Gosh, there's no "proven lineage" for Bowie knife going back to Jim himself so there's lots and lots of variations and useful stuff out there. Why wouldn't anyone want compare notes? :confused:

If you're ever in the Dayton, Ohio area, my WMA club is on Tuesday nights from 6-8, out of my garage, affectionately nicknamed "The Carport of Calamity." Please do stop in and say hello.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Touch Of Death

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Truthfully, I'd probably listen. An exchange of information is often helpful, or at the very least entertaining.

In Judo, for instance, there's at least 4 different variation of every darn throw, not including the old "pre-war" style which is often, well... "less friendly." For instance, there's the "stomping the floor" variation of O Soto Gari. I'm familiar with it from old Boxing manuals (yes, really) and from Danzan Ryu, but I'd never seen it in Judo before a friend sent me a link to a very old B&W film. Who knows what else?

Or Bowie Knife. Gosh, there's no "proven lineage" for Bowie knife going back to Jim himself so there's lots and lots of variations and useful stuff out there. Why wouldn't anyone want compare notes? :confused:

If you're ever in the Dayton, Ohio area, my WMA club is on Tuesday nights from 6-8, out of my garage, affectionately nicknamed "The Carport of Calamity." Please do stop in and say hello.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Actually, I would love to, but I'm stuck all the way up here in Spokane Falls Washington with the polar bears; so, no time soon. :)
 

JowGaWolf

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In the Moy Yat/Moy Tung schools it is required that all prospective students go through an introduction prior to being invited to a regular class. If you are hesitant about spending the $25 for a two-day introduction, we have a Facebook page and a YouTube channel that you can check out to get a feel for what we do.
This should have been the only response given. The other reasons that were given for this policy is what made me feel uneasy as well as the tone of the email.

That is when a martial artist trolls another schools intro program. They can almost smell it. You weren't serious, and would have been a waste of their time.
Talking to people is not a waste of time. The time spent throwing the attitude in the email, they could have simply said that drop in observations are not allowed by policy set by the school or the or the association that the school belongs to. That should have been the first answer in the email. If they don't want to answer questions like this then they should utilized FAQs and have the answer to this question on their website.

If a person is serious enough to come by your school to watch to see what you are doing then they at least have an interest in what you do. It could also be that someone who is more familiar with martial arts is checking the school out for someone else. The only thing they actually accomplished with the email was to weed out the potential student who was actually thinking about doing the introductory class and has a real interest in learning the fighting system.
 

Touch Of Death

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This should have been the only response given. The other reasons that were given for this policy is what made me feel uneasy as well as the tone of the email.

Talking to people is not a waste of time. The time spent throwing the attitude in the email, they could have simply said that drop in observations are not allowed by policy set by the school or the or the association that the school belongs to. That should have been the first answer in the email. If they don't want to answer questions like this then they should utilized FAQs and have the answer to this question on their website.

If a person is serious enough to come by your school to watch to see what you are doing then they at least have an interest in what you do. It could also be that someone who is more familiar with martial arts is checking the school out for someone else. The only thing they actually accomplished with the email was to weed out the potential student who was actually thinking about doing the introductory class and has a real interest in learning the fighting system.
Maybe.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Sincerely,
Simo Sarah Vyvial
I was curious about the "Simo" title and looked it up, since I hadn't encountered it before. (I'm familiar with "Sifu", "Sigung", "Sijo", etc). Apparently it's the title for the wife of an instructor, who may or may not have any knowledge of the art being taught herself. For the CMA practitioners - is this sort of honorific commonly used in the U.S.? It seems a little odd.

So far I haven't found an equivalent title for the husband of the Sifu, if the Sifu happens to be female (or gay).
 

Touch Of Death

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I was curious about the "Simo" title and looked it up, since I hadn't encountered it before. (I'm familiar with "Sifu", "Sigung", "Sijo", etc). Apparently it's the title for the wife of an instructor, who may or may not have any knowledge of the art being taught herself. For the CMA practitioners - is this sort of honorific commonly used in the U.S.? It seems a little odd.

So far I haven't found an equivalent title for the husband of the Sifu, if the Sifu happens to be female (or gay).
Deep Thoughts, by Tony Dismukes... :)
 

drop bear

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We just had two guys on holidays come in for a trial session. Which was coincidentally sparring. They were never going to be students.

But we all had fun. And it did not cost us anything.

My advice for a prospective student is to fin a club that opens itself to the wider martial art community.

It is just nicer to be a part of that.
 

JowGaWolf

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For the CMA practitioners - is this sort of honorific commonly used in the U.S.?
This is totally traditional Chinese martial art culture. We addressed my Sifu's wife the same way. Sifu - translated is actually closer to father than teacher so if you think of a Sifu as being a father figure then Simo will make sense. This kind of goes back to a conversation in another thread where we were saying that Kung fu was more of a family type group. Then you have the big brother big sister titles as well.

As for the female teacher. From what I understand she will be referred to as Sifu from what I was able to find (not sure how accurate) the husband of a Sifu would be called "si-jeong"
 

jks9199

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H'mmm....

I can respect, to an extent, the idea that they're more concerned with their own students training and with safety in the training hall than a prospective student. I've heard it expressed more elegantly in some discussions of Japanese koryu arts and some more traditional Japanese dojos. (I think Dave Lowry wrote something about it...)

And, like I've said, I can understand a mat fee or "intro class fee" especially if credited to the regular fees upon registration. Lights have to be lit, rent paid, and insurance purchased, after all...

In fact, I could even see where insurance requirements might greatly restrict observers, with some arts. Mostly weapon arts. Along the lines of "customers aren't permitted in the shop" stuff, and if there just was limited space. I could even by the limited space argument... Or a "we only allow visitors at the Tuesday class session" thing...

But...

I don't get "Nope, no way, no how, no observers" attitude. It just smacks of "we've got something to hide." I mean, I might be someone training in that style who just wants to come by and observe how a different school trains...

Personally, we welcome visitors. We're generally open to a prospective student visiting a time or two, and we'll generally let them try a class out for free. If it seems like they're lingering around, hovering, but no really making a decision one way or the other about joining, we might push a bit... but I can really only think of one or two times in 30-ish years that we've had to do that.
 

Danny T

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From what I have been told by my Sifu (from Hong Kong)
The term Sifu, when applied to a Kung Fu school, is the head of the school. Has nothing to do with one being an instructor in the school. Traditionally is the head of the school. Being the head of the school there is only one Sifu to a school. It is used more as term of endearment rather then a title. If Sifu has a wife she is known as Simo which has nothing to do with her having any skills in the martial arts where she has any or not. There is no term for the husband of a Sifu when that position is a female.
Of course this has changed within the western cultures.
 

Dirty Dog

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In what universe is watching a class dangerous for either the observer or the student?
And "nobody wants to be watched?"
ROFL
 

jks9199

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In what universe is watching a class dangerous for either the observer or the student?
And "nobody wants to be watched?"
ROFL
It's a bit of a stretch, but I could see maybe a weapons class, especially if they're actually making contact, like sparring with boken or sticks, could be seen as dangerous to spectators due to flying chunks of broken sticks.

Like I said -- a stretch and iffy, but I could see an overcautious liability minded insurance company or the like making a call like that.
 

JowGaWolf

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In what universe is watching a class dangerous for either the observer or the student?
And "nobody wants to be watched?"
ROFL
ha ha ha.. So I guess this situation would be dangerous. All of those bodies in the room probably do a good job in sucking up all the oxygen.

This is actually from the school in question.

I know Wing Chun is a close quarters fighting system but dang.lol All it takes is someone to fart and they all die lol.
 

JowGaWolf

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It's a bit of a stretch, but I could see maybe a weapons class, especially if they're actually making contact, like sparring with boken or sticks, could be seen as dangerous to spectators due to flying chunks of broken sticks.

Like I said -- a stretch and iffy, but I could see an overcautious liability minded insurance company or the like making a call like that.
From the size of those rooms posted in the videos, I'm pretty sure they do weapons training outside for the public to see (as shown in some of their pictures) lol.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Regarding the second video, is it normal to put that little rotation/power in the punches for wing chun? I can't imagine any of those punches actually hurting me...
 

Dirty Dog

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It's a bit of a stretch, but I could see maybe a weapons class, especially if they're actually making contact, like sparring with boken or sticks, could be seen as dangerous to spectators due to flying chunks of broken sticks.

Like I said -- a stretch and iffy, but I could see an overcautious liability minded insurance company or the like making a call like that.

I'd say it's a hugggghhhheeee stretch.
Isn't most stick fighting done with rattan? One of the nice things about rattan is that it's fibrous. It doesn't break. It just get mushy.
And when was the last time you saw anyone doing full contact work with broken? Or saw one break?

If the SCA and similar groups can get insurance that allows spectators, I'm skeptical that a school couldn't.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.
 

drop bear

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Martial art has often thrived on the notion that they have the secret to the real deadly.

Sorry guys the secret is out.
 

JowGaWolf

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Martial art has often thrived on the notion that they have the secret to the real deadly.

Sorry guys the secret is out.
That's ole skool. These days it's about the color of a belt that helps the school thrive.
 

WaterGal

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I'd say it's a hugggghhhheeee stretch.
Isn't most stick fighting done with rattan? One of the nice things about rattan is that it's fibrous. It doesn't break. It just get mushy.
And when was the last time you saw anyone doing full contact work with broken? Or saw one break?

If the SCA and similar groups can get insurance that allows spectators, I'm skeptical that a school couldn't.

I have seen a rattan bo break, but it just broke in half, it didn't have pieces flying everywhere. And yeah, who spars with bokken? That's why you have shinai. The slats on the shinai can break, but they stay attached to the sword.

I can't see weapons training being dangerous to observers unless you're using live blades or loaded firearms, which I doubt you could get insurance to cover even for your students, since it's just asking for someone to get hurt/killed.
 

WaterGal

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I don't get "Nope, no way, no how, no observers" attitude. It just smacks of "we've got something to hide." I mean, I might be someone training in that style who just wants to come by and observe how a different school trains...

Personally, we welcome visitors. We're generally open to a prospective student visiting a time or two, and we'll generally let them try a class out for free. If it seems like they're lingering around, hovering, but no really making a decision one way or the other about joining, we might push a bit... but I can really only think of one or two times in 30-ish years that we've had to do that.

Yeah, we're much the same way. If someone wants to watch, that's totally fine as long as they're not being disruptive. We're in a shopping center with a takeout place, and we often get people who walk down and look in the window while waiting for their food, and we'll wave them in and give them information about the school. We've had at least one person sign up from that. And we encourage people to take a free trial class, as long they have a good attitude (don't seem like the kind of people that just want to fight and hurt people).

My feeling is that transparency and openness are a form of marketing - if people look in and see people doing cool stuff, if they come in and are welcomed warmly, it makes us look like a good place to train.

Being secretive doesn't help, unless you want to create some cult-like atmosphere of "our secret ninja training makes us the most deadly Real Street Warriors with our no-touch knockouts" that most people would laugh at.
 

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