Is It Important To Have A Successor?

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MJS

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Many times, the founder or current head of a system will designate someone to take over the art once they pass. EPAK has many high ranking people who have gone on to carry on the teachings of Mr. Parker, in their own unique way. There are different branches, each with their own way of doing things.

My question is: If Mr. Parker had left someone as successor to the art, would things be different from the way they are today?
 
Dark Kenpo Lord said:
Without a doubt.

DarK LorD
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Would you care to expand on this from your point of view? :ultracool

Mike
 
MJS said:
My question is: If Mr. Parker had left someone as successor to the art, would things be different from the way they are today?
Click to expand...

I don't think so, there were several breakoffs prior to Mr. Parkers death, and I think people are simply loyal to people, not necessarily to the official lineage. If an official lineage goes to someone who I don't think has as good a combination of knowledge, technique, teaching ability, and character as another, then I'll follow the guy who I thought was better.

Lamont
 
MJS said:
Would you care to expand on this from your point of view? :ultracool

Mike
Click to expand...

I'll answer with my opinion Mr Parker would have the respect from his top students to follow his wishes about his art, with that being said Mr parker always like to try new and different variations of the same techniques from time to time. People have a trendicies to have to be the one and since nobody was left they all decided to teach the way they thought he wanted.
Terry
 
I believe that the system may be different, but not so much a lot of the politics. Mr. Parker had people constatntly coming and going, some for their own agendas and others that thought change was bad, and even some that thought he was not changing fast enough. I feel the main difference that we would have today is a lot less people openly bad mouthing him or falsely claiming training.
 
Not really, there still would've been political fighting for control and new organizations splitting off with their own big poopa.

After 35 years training, a person is unlikely to decided to remain under someone with about the same experience, there is going to come a time where a person refuses to follow and has to go their own way.

It's in our nature, we follow till we are comfortable then eventually we want to start making the decissions for ourself.

Same thing has happened in every system that has tried to have a single head.
 
I think that it only works when you have something rigid for a successor to defend and perpetuate. When something is in a constant state of flux, then a successor does little good. If Parker had left a rigid system like Shotokan etc., then there would be a point to have someone there to defend it's orthodoxy. What Parker left, it seems, was a concept similar to how Bruce Lee left JKD. Therefore, the only successor that he could have left would have been one that would continue to run his business and say who was officially promoted etc.
 
MJS said:
Many times, the founder or current head of a system will designate someone to take over the art once they pass. EPAK has many high ranking people who have gone on to carry on the teachings of Mr. Parker, in their own unique way. There are different branches, each with their own way of doing things.

My question is: If Mr. Parker had left someone as successor to the art, would things be different from the way they are today?
Click to expand...
No. Ed Parker was a completely unique individual who despite his "uniqueness," never kept any of his people together and moving in the same direction. He began "losing" students in the beginning and always lost significant students for various reasons in every generation.

Many of the "factions" of kenpo that split off from Parker existed while he was alive. Now that he has passed, nothing has changed except the number of 10ths. Many that did stay did so only until they achiweved the rank they were seeking over knowledge that was available they didn't seek for whatever reason.

Clearly a named successor would have, at the least, done no better than Parker himself to hold people together, and the introduction of the commercial product did nothing but exacerbate the situation. A successor in all likelyhood, would have not done any better than what we have today.
 
Doc said:
No. Ed Parker was a completely unique individual who despite his "uniqueness," never kept any of his people together and moving in the same direction. He began "losing" students in the beginning and always lost significant students for various reasons in every generation.

Many of the "factions" of kenpo that split off from Parker existed while he was alive. Now that he has passed, nothing has changed except the number of 10ths. Many that did stay did so only until they achiweved the rank they were seeking over knowledge that was available they didn't seek for whatever reason.

Clearly a named successor would have, at the least, done no better than Parker himself to hold people together, and the introduction of the commercial product did nothing but exacerbate the situation. A successor in all likelyhood, would have not done any better than what we have today.
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To give further evidence of this point:

I have seen this in other arts as well. A sucessor or group of people selected to continue on who may or may not be the current "Active" students. They may or may not be the Highest promoted by the Leader of the Art. There may be issues of Rank or personalities or policitics including greed that could offer for the splits in today's environment.

A good Student will know his teacher has taught him, even if it is different from what he may have taught others. This student with the right training and understanding should be able to make a good instructor. This instructor may not appeal to everyone, due to the above mentioned politics or personailities or even egos.

I think it might have been different, yet close in the end.

Just my thoughts.
 
IWishToLearn said:
I really do enjoy seeing debates that are thought provoking like this. Thanks for commenting everyone :).
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Many of the "newbies" lack perspective through no fault of their own. But off the top of my head: Parker's second black belt, James ibrao, left him in less than a year after receiving his black in 9 months. Rick Flores, and Rich Montgomery left to go with Jimmy Woo when he left. Dave German left to start his own style, T.A.I. Karate. Joe Dimmick, started Red Dragaon and later Sam Pai Kenpo, Bob Perry dubbed Universal Kenpo, The Tracy's, etc. All left in the late fifties to early sixties to do there own thing long before most people you know in kenpo even started with Parker. Nothing new. Just some memories from one of the "ancients."
 
Doc said:
No. Ed Parker was a completely unique individual who despite his "uniqueness," never kept any of his people together and moving in the same direction. He began "losing" students in the beginning and always lost significant students for various reasons in every generation.

Many of the "factions" of kenpo that split off from Parker existed while he was alive. Now that he has passed, nothing has changed except the number of 10ths. Many that did stay did so only until they achiweved the rank they were seeking over knowledge that was available they didn't seek for whatever reason.

Clearly a named successor would have, at the least, done no better than Parker himself to hold people together, and the introduction of the commercial product did nothing but exacerbate the situation. A successor in all likelyhood, would have not done any better than what we have today.
Click to expand...

Would having a successor eliminate the politics that we often see?
 
MJS said:
Would having a successor eliminate the politics that we often see?
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I highly doubt it. Politics will still continue. There will always be others that may question the role of that successor or suggest someone else might be better. It doesn't really matter whether it is martial arts, sports, business, or even a grass-roots organization. Politics (whether overt or "behind doors") will tend to crop up.

- Ceicei
 
MJS said:
Would you care to expand on this from your point of view? :ultracool

Mike
Click to expand...

If Parker had named a successor, he would have also outlined the curriculum he wanted taught, and to who for that matter. I don't think we'd be facing "Well, Parker wanted change" attitude near as much, and I think the standard would've held with the majority. Yes, you'd have factions and separations, but nothing like we have now where some are on the 24, 16 etc.. I also think that a lot of the changes/deletions would've come to a much more halted state had he left a successor with curriculum to be taught as EPAK. Politics however, wouldn't have changed and the IKKA would still be dead.

DarK LorD
 
Dark Kenpo Lord said:
If Parker had named a successor, he would have also outlined the curriculum he wanted taught, and to who for that matter. I don't think we'd be facing "Well, Parker wanted change" attitude near as much, and I think the standard would've held with the majority. Yes, you'd have factions and separations, but nothing like we have now where some are on the 24, 16 etc.. I also think that a lot of the changes/deletions would've come to a much more halted state had he left a successor with curriculum to be taught as EPAK. Politics however, wouldn't have changed and the IKKA would still be dead.

DarK LorD
Click to expand...

Thanks Clyde! This is along the lines of what I was thinking. I agree that the problems would most likely be there, but at least there would be someone as a guide, so to speak.

Mike
 
Having a successor might have helped maintain some cohesiveness. Someone needs to guide the ship. The numerous different kenpo styles would still exist but there may have been less political back biting if a strong, respected individual were at the top. EPAK in particular might be in a better position if there had been a successor named.
 
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