In Defense of the McDojo

[Bill Mattocks]

Consider the McDojo. By and large, when we say the word, we use it in a pejorative way. We mean commercial studios that purport to teach some form of martial arts, which are based on contracts and guaranteed promotions in rank for students. Many are franchised chains, some are run by charismatic instructors who lay claim to skill in arts no one has heard of but them, belt levels awarded by organizations of dubious distinction, and an ever-shifting emphasis on whatever is popular at the time; from Karate to Kung Fu to Kick-Boxing.

Those of us who consider ourselves martial artists tend to hold such places in low esteem. We train for various reasons, but none of us would seek to 'purchase' a belt or ranking by contract, regardless of our actual capabilities. We seek the 'real thing' and not a pale imitation sold to the children of soccer moms and fantasy-football dads.

However, the McDojo has a place as a legitimate business. Note that I did not say as a legitimate place to learn martial arts. A business. Like calling McDonalds a 'restaurant' (and hence the term 'McDojo'). Yes, you can get food at McDonalds, and some of it is tasty. You could even live on it, more or less. Not many would claim it is superior to the local restaurants in one's home town, but it has certain attributes that make it attractive to some. For one thing, it is dependable. You always know what you're getting. The quality may not be the best, but it's nearly always safe and up to a particular standard, even if that standard is not very high. For another, it's cheap; although many know where to find local bargains at non-fast-food restaurants that is even cheaper.

The McDojo, like a fast-food restaurant, serves a purpose. From the business point of view, it is profitable if done right, and it generates a dependable revenue stream. By using contracts and looking at promotions as customer enticements to continue instead of recognition of skill levels achieved, it does the one thing that all businesses struggle with - generate recurring revenue that is predictable. If franchised, it generally has a business model that makes the typical pitfalls and traps of local businesses smoother and easier to manage, like offering specialized vertical accounting software designed specifically for the business, discounts on group-based health and liability insurance, and produces and services that can be sold.

Can students learn 'real' martial arts in a McDojo? Sure, if the instructor is capable of teaching it. However, learning martial arts is secondary to making a profit. This may seem anathema to some - those who see martial arts as something pure that is not to be sullied. But others see it differently - even the best 'pure' or 'authentic' dojo cannot stay open without students. A wonderfully-qualified instructor who is difficult to get along with, or mean, or even sadistic, can ruin a dojo, no matter how authentic the instruction is. A fantastic instructor who cannot balance the books, pay the rent, keep the lights turned on, will soon find himself without a place for his or her students to work out, no matter how good their training is. So it seems that business needs are important to any dojo, whether or not it is an 'authentic' dojo. So even a non-McDojo must consider the needs of business, even if they place the emphasis on teaching and not on making money.

A McDojo is primarily a business. As a business model, it is logical and sensible. As a teaching model, if it is part of a franchise that puts a requirement on actual training of authentic, it can be a reasonable if not superior one. That is, like McDonalds, it can insist that a minimum standard be met in instructors and franchise owners. That is not to say that all McDojo's do that, but they can. Students can learn useful skills in such places if they are good students and the instructors are good instructors; but it is incidental to the business itself, not the basis of it. Poor students will also be promoted as long as their check clears, but that's recognizing a business reality, not seeking to build a positive reputation in the authentic martial arts community.

'Real' dojos will always dislike McDojo's and for good reason. They do indeed drag down the 'value' others perceive of authentic training and advanced belts by lowering the bar and giving away or selling belts and rankings to whomever can pay the freight. On the other hand, one must wonder how many students start at a McDojo who might otherwise never even have considered martial arts training (due to the McDojo's incessant advertising), become dismayed, and seek out a 'real' dojo as a result? How many instructors in 'authentic' dojos can relax knowing that their students are there to learn and not to buy a belt, since they know if that is their goal, they can drive down to the local Black Belt Factory and buy one in a year and a half?

McDonalds doesn't really damage local restaurants - they serve a different purpose. McDojos don't really damage local dojos. They serve a different purpose.

Thoughts?

 

[ronagle]

Consider the McDojo. By and large, when we say the word, we use it in a pejorative way. We mean commercial studios that purport to teach some form of martial arts, which are based on contracts and guaranteed promotions in rank for students. Many are franchised chains, some are run by charismatic instructors who lay claim to skill in arts no one has heard of but them, belt levels awarded by organizations of dubious distinction, and an ever-shifting emphasis on whatever is popular at the time; from Karate to Kung Fu to Kick-Boxing.

Those of us who consider ourselves martial artists tend to hold such places in low esteem. We train for various reasons, but none of us would seek to 'purchase' a belt or ranking by contract, regardless of our actual capabilities. We seek the 'real thing' and not a pale imitation sold to the children of soccer moms and fantasy-football dads.

However, the McDojo has a place as a legitimate business. Note that I did not say as a legitimate place to learn martial arts. A business. Like calling McDonalds a 'restaurant' (and hence the term 'McDojo'). Yes, you can get food at McDonalds, and some of it is tasty. You could even live on it, more or less. Not many would claim it is superior to the local restaurants in one's home town, but it has certain attributes that make it attractive to some. For one thing, it is dependable. You always know what you're getting. The quality may not be the best, but it's nearly always safe and up to a particular standard, even if that standard is not very high. For another, it's cheap; although many know where to find local bargains at non-fast-food restaurants that is even cheaper.

The McDojo, like a fast-food restaurant, serves a purpose. From the business point of view, it is profitable if done right, and it generates a dependable revenue stream. By using contracts and looking at promotions as customer enticements to continue instead of recognition of skill levels achieved, it does the one thing that all businesses struggle with - generate recurring revenue that is predictable. If franchised, it generally has a business model that makes the typical pitfalls and traps of local businesses smoother and easier to manage, like offering specialized vertical accounting software designed specifically for the business, discounts on group-based health and liability insurance, and produces and services that can be sold.

Can students learn 'real' martial arts in a McDojo? Sure, if the instructor is capable of teaching it. However, learning martial arts is secondary to making a profit. This may seem anathema to some - those who see martial arts as something pure that is not to be sullied. But others see it differently - even the best 'pure' or 'authentic' dojo cannot stay open without students. A wonderfully-qualified instructor who is difficult to get along with, or mean, or even sadistic, can ruin a dojo, no matter how authentic the instruction is. A fantastic instructor who cannot balance the books, pay the rent, keep the lights turned on, will soon find himself without a place for his or her students to work out, no matter how good their training is. So it seems that business needs are important to any dojo, whether or not it is an 'authentic' dojo. So even a non-McDojo must consider the needs of business, even if they place the emphasis on teaching and not on making money.

A McDojo is primarily a business. As a business model, it is logical and sensible. As a teaching model, if it is part of a franchise that puts a requirement on actual training of authentic, it can be a reasonable if not superior one. That is, like McDonalds, it can insist that a minimum standard be met in instructors and franchise owners. That is not to say that all McDojo's do that, but they can. Students can learn useful skills in such places if they are good students and the instructors are good instructors; but it is incidental to the business itself, not the basis of it. Poor students will also be promoted as long as their check clears, but that's recognizing a business reality, not seeking to build a positive reputation in the authentic martial arts community.

'Real' dojos will always dislike McDojo's and for good reason. They do indeed drag down the 'value' others perceive of authentic training and advanced belts by lowering the bar and giving away or selling belts and rankings to whomever can pay the freight. On the other hand, one must wonder how many students start at a McDojo who might otherwise never even have considered martial arts training (due to the McDojo's incessant advertising), become dismayed, and seek out a 'real' dojo as a result? How many instructors in 'authentic' dojos can relax knowing that their students are there to learn and not to buy a belt, since they know if that is their goal, they can drive down to the local Black Belt Factory and buy one in a year and a half?

McDonalds doesn't really damage local restaurants - they serve a different purpose. McDojos don't really damage local dojos. They serve a different purpose.

Thoughts?

The training is still often homogenized crap, defense denied. If the training sucks the product sucks. Done.

 

[K-man]

As one who trained in a McDojo of necessity for a couple of years I agree with much of the OP. However, I had a teacher who was very short on knowledge, teaching techniques that were flawed to students who didn't know better. Turned out the teacher, about 17 yo and wearing a BB, was in fact not a BB but was wearing it, with approval from those above, for credibility. Whole setup left lots to be desired. Great model, great business, an incredibly large operation, some good teachers but on the whole, McCrap.

 

[grydth]

Bill, one can say reasonable minds can differ as to what is a McDojo. The longer I'm around, the more I see good dojos are starting to take on some McDojo traits..... and I would concede that some McDojo's can improve and serve some useful purpose. Dojos are like the people in them - seldom pure good, pure virtue and seldom pure evil or pure fraud.

But as to the truly fake ones - Bill, there is no such thing as harmless or victimless consumer fraud. Not in the martial arts, not anywheres else.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The training is still often homogenized crap, defense denied. If the training sucks the product sucks. Done.

I don't think I said anything different.

I also said that a McDojo is a sound business model. I did not say that it produces fine product, just as McDonalds does not produce fine cuisine.

From the point of view of a student who wants to learn 'real' or 'authentic' martial arts, I don't think we are in disagreement. A McDojo is generally going to be a suboptimal experience.

From the point of view of a business owner, a McDojo model can be a more profitable and consistent model.

From the point of view of the student who only wants a black belt and doesn't much care how he gets it, a McDojo is exactly what he wants. We may regard such a person with disdain, but they exist, they have money to spend, and there is a market to provide them with what they desire, whether we approve or not.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Bill, one can say reasonable minds can differ as to what is a McDojo. The longer I'm around, the more I see good dojos are starting to take on some McDojo traits..... and I would concede that some McDojo's can improve and serve some useful purpose. Dojos are like the people in them - seldom pure good, pure virtue and seldom pure evil or pure fraud.

But as to the truly fake ones - Bill, there is no such thing as harmless or victimless consumer fraud. Not in the martial arts, not anywheres else.

You bring up an excellent point. However, let me rebut.

Where there are no standards, there is no way of determining what is fake and what is fraud and what is authentic and what is real. It's all subjective.

Yes, you and I (and many others on MT) know the difference between a make-um-up eleventy-dozen degree black belt in super-karate-fu-you-never-heard-of and someone who has put in 30+ years in a recognized art under instructors who are known and respected in the community - but that means little to the non-martial-arts community.

I'm sure you and I could call 'BS' on many McDojo's, and even (although we don't do that here) on many members of MT. The problem is not that we don't know the difference between the genuine article and the fake, but that there are no objective standards to hold anything up to.

There are no associations that are above reproach - there are legitimate associations and fake ones. There are no governing bodies that are immune from politics, schisms, takeovers, and cults of personality. Martial Arts as a community in whole is fragmented, disjointed, incomplete, and inarticulate. We generally reject the notion of third-party (ie, government) regulation, licensing, inspection, or certification. And yet, without it, everything is legit (or not legit) if we say so.

I know I'm not a black belt in Isshin-Ryu. I'm a green belt with a long way to go. But I could buy a black belt, join some accrediting agency that would send me a nice certificate for my wall saying I was a certified thus-and-so, and hang out my shingle as a MA instructor. I might even be able to teach a few things that were useful to newbies. But I would be a fraud.

However, I'd only be a fraud to this community - to those who know the difference. To students off the street? To the general public? To any government seeking to regulate or control ripoffs and dangerous practices?

I'm not suggesting that the wild world of Martial Arts needs to be tamed or controlled or regulated or licensed. But I am noting that as long as we reject all such attempts to quantify, certify, and otherwise objectively measure knowledge in the martial arts, there is no 'fraud' in an objective sense. Joe Blow who saw a DVD of "Enter the Dragon" is as qualified to teach as you are, in terms of what is permitted in most states. Fraud to you, but not to the rest of the public.

 

[grydth]

I would say the opposite in many cases - it is indeed fraud on the general public, but not on those of us who know better. It is fraud on those who are swindled.

The mere absence of state standards, enforced by political hacks on official commissions, is not fatal to a finding of fraud. Dishonesty is dishonesty, whether there are laws and lawyers or not (ouch, it hurts to say this) to enforce it.

I am aware that one person's fraud is another's Funakoshi, and that all true arts must start somewheres and with somebody.... and what you may consider a heresy, I may view as new and inspired... But let's confine ourselves to the complete fakes.

These characters - the completely bogus ones - work a genuine harm to their customers.

Let's suppose a student of one of these charlatans is confronted one day by a true threat. His inner Monty Python voice urgently cautions," RunAwayRunAwayRunAway". As well he should. But he doesn't... and why should he? He has a 26th degree ninja black belt, with gold stars, from DaimyoGrandmaster HuffnStuff..... and by paying extra, he has been given the secrets to the No Touch Projected Qi Oriental Fart of Death.

While our hero suffers a beat down of catastrophic proportions, a few miles away, a child is getting the same thing. His mom bought him a black belt, with funds the family could ill afford, to give him self esteem. What happens to that when he lands on his back in a puddle with his nose gushing blood, the other kids all laughing?

Ahead of these two at Urgent Care is a woman who has ruined her back. She signed up for Tai Yo - Fu, a Frankenstein creation of (supposedly) Tai Chi, Kung Fu, Yoga and Eye of Newt..... the brainchild of somebody who has mastered none of them. Students of this healthy pursuit will keep the medical facility rolling in cash for months to come.

Meanwhile, three friends who could use the lessons provided by true MA see a poster for a seminar offered by one of the true masters on this forum. Two want to try it... but the third stops them. "That stuff's all fake!" he assures them.... citing the examples above.

Fraud on the public it is, sir.:soapbox:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I would say the opposite in many cases - it is indeed fraud on the general public, but not on those of us who know better. It is fraud on those who are swindled.

The mere absence of state standards, enforced by political hacks on official commissions, is not fatal to a finding of fraud. Dishonesty is dishonesty, whether there are laws and lawyers or not (ouch, it hurts to say this) to enforce it.

I am aware that one person's fraud is another's Funakoshi, and that all true arts must start somewheres and with somebody.... and what you may consider a heresy, I may view as new and inspired... But let's confine ourselves to the complete fakes.

These characters - the completely bogus ones - work a genuine harm to their customers.

Let's suppose a student of one of these charlatans is confronted one day by a true threat. His inner Monty Python voice urgently cautions," RunAwayRunAwayRunAway". As well he should. But he doesn't... and why should he? He has a 26th degree ninja black belt, with gold stars, from DaimyoGrandmaster HuffnStuff..... and by paying extra, he has been given the secrets to the No Touch Projected Qi Oriental Fart of Death.

While our hero suffers a beat down of catastrophic proportions, a few miles away, a child is getting the same thing. His mom bought him a black belt, with funds the family could ill afford, to give him self esteem. What happens to that when he lands on his back in a puddle with his nose gushing blood, the other kids all laughing?

Ahead of these two at Urgent Care is a woman who has ruined her back. She signed up for Tai Yo - Fu, a Frankenstein creation of (supposedly) Tai Chi, Kung Fu, Yoga and Eye of Newt..... the brainchild of somebody who has mastered none of them. Students of this healthy pursuit will keep the medical facility rolling in cash for months to come.

Meanwhile, three friends who could use the lessons provided by true MA see a poster for a seminar offered by one of the true masters on this forum. Two want to try it... but the third stops them. "That stuff's all fake!" he assures them.... citing the examples above.

Fraud on the public it is, sir.:soapbox:

Thanks for your response. Your points are valid, but there is, as usual, another side to it.

First of all, caveat emptor is in play here. In a free market, it is the job of the buyer to discern the wheat from the chaff. I do not buy 'eXtenze' capsules, but apparently they're a big seller, so somebody is buying them.

Second, you give a worst-case scenario. I think we could probably all agree that not every McDojo is staffed with instructors who are utterly incompetent. They may not be high-quality, but that does not mean they are bad. I have no doubt, however, that there are many who are as you describe them.

Third, let's take the case of the little boy whose mom wanted to buy him a black belt to 'increase his self-esteem'. She got what she bought. She did not buy him 'increased ability to defend himself'. And frankly, if she is made a mistake by choosing a McDojo because as a typical consumer, she could not tell the difference between quality and crap, that begs the question why isn't it regulated and licensed?

As regards the people who end up in hospital due to poor instruction, I could as easily argue that a lot of people end up in hospital due to good instruction too! Injuries happen in a martial arts training environment. However, you bring up a good point - and that is, what happens when a McDojo (or any martial arts establishment) holds itself out as being conducive to good health or conferring some healthy benefit? States quite often regulate and license physical therapists, health clubs, and others who purport to offer good health as a side-effect or primary benefit of what they teach or perform. If martial arts is performed to obtain some health benefit, it would seem to fall directly under that scenario - requiring inspection, testing, certification, and regulation by a government agency.

However, let's get back to my original point. I contend that the McDojo is not in the business of teaching self-defense. Understand that, we see that the McDojo is in the business of providing a service, whether it is a high-quality product or not, and it does that rather well. McDonalds is not a high-end restaurant. And yet, McDonalds thrives, and many people like it just fine. The McDojo can't be defended as a place to go to learn top-notch martial arts - but it's a rather good business model for the martial artist/instructor who wishes to earn a living from martial arts teaching.

 

[seasoned]

"In Defense of the McDojo" Not my words
Sadly what you say is very true. The only problem I see though is this "Mc" handle can be applied to many other facets of life. Our society is caving into the sub-par and calling it acceptable. If I may digress, there is mc-religion, mc-government, mc-values, mc-education, and the list could go on and on. Those of us that know the difference need to stand up for what we feel is right. Just because the uneducated except this sub-par as the real deal only makes it right in their eyes. You bring up a very challenging thread because sub-par and the handle mcdojo is very subjective, and to them we may be termed old fashioned and antiquated. Maybe thats why we're only here 4 score and 10. Later.

 

[grydth]

Bill, would you concede the difference between an injury suffered in the pursuit of a legitimate art and an injury caused by a fake art?

While you contend a McDojo is not in the business of actually teaching self defense, isn't it true that most attract students by pretending to do exactly that? If they then do not deliver what they promise, and what the customer is paying for, they are providing no service..... indeed, they are doing a serious disservice.

Yes, caveat emptor. But have we not seen threads here where fakes attracted more students than genuine masters because of more convincing presentations? Did we not just have an instance where somebody had some very impressive, though completely forged, certificates? Finding fault with the shopper may be appropriate - but this in no way exonerates the faker.

McDonald's the burger joint at least provides real, though junky food, which provides some nominal nourishment to the body. But I think too many McDojos provide no nourishment to either mind or body, and often act to poison both.

Just my opinions..... :asian:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Bill, would you concede the difference between an injury suffered in the pursuit of a legitimate art and an injury caused by a fake art?

I guess it depends on how you define it. As far as the injury itself goes, no, I don't see a difference. It makes little difference to my busted toe how I broke it.

While you contend a McDojo is not in the business of actually teaching self defense, isn't it true that most attract students by pretending to do exactly that?

What is self-defense? Do you mean effective self-defense? Self-defense against whom, the average street thug, or a trained martial artist? Self-defense in all situations, or only against certain situations?

If I teach basic blocks and kicks and punches, is that not capable of being used in self-defense?

If they then do not deliver what they promise, and what the customer is paying for, they are providing no service..... indeed, they are doing a serious disservice.

McDonalds claims to provide tasty inexpensive food. They do not claim to be a high-quality restaurant. Are they then a fraud? McDojos don't claim to produce world-champions, they claim to teach self-defense in the form of 'karate' or 'kung fu' or whatever they think is the hot topic at any given time.

And again, one can argue that the customer is not buying self-defense. They're buying a belt, for a fee, on a structured payment plan.

Yes, caveat emptor. But have we not seen threads here where fakes attracted more students than genuine masters because of more convincing presentations?

And what does this mean? That the McDojo is bad, or that the genuine instructor isn't a very good businessperson?

Did we not just have an instance where somebody had some very impressive, though completely forged, certificates? Finding fault with the shopper may be appropriate - but this in no way exonerates the faker.

If a person purports to have credentials from a society or organization that they do not have, that is fraud. Are you arguing that McDojos consist of that? I would counter that most McDojos have instructors who sport fancy diplomas that don't have much value in 'our' world, but they're no more fake than ours - because there is no independent objective way of judging one against the other.

McDonald's the burger joint at least provides real, though junky food, which provides some nominal nourishment to the body. But I think too many McDojos provide no nourishment to either mind or body, and often act to poison both.

I have not argued that they're teaching good martial arts. I've argued that they are a sound business model, and like McDonalds, they might provide real, though junky, martial arts training.

Just my opinions..... :asian:

I hear you. But what you seem to be mostly saying is that McDojos are bad. Bad they may be, but successful they are. And there is a reason for that. They have a good business model, and they understand their clientele.

 

[grydth]

Many bad enterprises are extremely successful. History is full of them. But success itself does not act to make what is evil into wonderful.

Do McDojos truly understand their clientele as people.... or do they just understand enough about them so as to be able to fool them? That is a predator's understanding, not a scholar or teacher's.

The key test for fraud is the veracity of what you are selling. If a McDojo advertises to sell effective self defense and only renders a belt for a fee, most would call that fraud.

Many true masters aren't very good as business people. That comes out again and again here..... but having slickly marketed frauds in the region only hurts the true arts, and in a variety of ways. Of course, the genuine masters are limited by the truth in what they can promise.... placing them at a significant disadvantage to the fake.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Many bad enterprises are extremely successful. History is full of them. But success itself does not act to make what is evil into wonderful.

No, nor have I argued that it does.

Do McDojos truly understand their clientele as people.... or do they just understand enough about them so as to be able to fool them? That is a predator's understanding, not a scholar or teacher's.

You seem to be fixed on the notion that McDojo's fool people. I'm not sure they do. They sell a product that people seem to want to buy. To the best of my knowledge, they're not selling mastery of martial arts or even self-defense beyond the basics. They sell black belts to people who want to buy black belts. If both the seller and the buyer understand the transaction, I have a hard time calling that fraud. I would contend that most students at a McDojo know exactly what they're purchasing, and they get it.

The key test for fraud is the veracity of what you are selling. If a McDojo advertises to sell effective self defense and only renders a belt for a fee, most would call that fraud.

I disagree. Most would call the basic blocks, kicks, and punches, the essentials of self-defense. Beyond that, I haven't heard much in the way of claims by McDojos. I have not heard of them claiming to teach a person to able to defend themselves against any situation.

You also seem to be locked onto the worst possible outcome; that of a student who learns absolutely nothing from a McDojo and therefore cannot defend himself or herself. I would contend that there are quite a few McDojos that teach martial arts in a basic form that is at least useful, if not masterful.

Even if we agree that some McDojos sell what they do not possess, do all of them? Most are as others describe them disparagingly - belt factories. They sell belts, and many students want to buy them.

Many true masters aren't very good as business people. That comes out again and again here..... but having slickly marketed frauds in the region only hurts the true arts, and in a variety of ways. Of course, the genuine masters are limited by the truth in what they can promise.... placing them at a significant disadvantage to the fake.

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. Many true masters may not be good business people, but there's nothing saying they can't be. And marketing is marketing - a true master can easily offer an advantage over the McDojo by targeting their marketing to those who would be interested in what they teach; the usual market for the McDojo students is not their target audience. You'll never convince soccer moms who want junior to gain self-confidence that authentic and masterful teaching which promises nothing in the way of belts is superior to a belt factory - so it would be foolish to market to them. But most non-McDojos do little to no marketing at all. That's not bad marketing, it's non-existent marketing. Would you say that a true master is bound to not market their services?

But in any case, again I find it hard to fault the McDojo for understanding their target audience and catering to it. Sound business strategy, and it clearly works.

 

[grydth]

I should have been clearer the first time out on this thread.... I am only speaking about the outright frauds, the worst of the worst.

I believe there are a number of quality dojos that, for business reasons, are now taking on some traits associated with McDojos - but that usually doesn't make their teaching any less valid.

I believe there are some places at the other end of the spectrum who eventually evolve/mature into offering at least some things of value...... .

A dojo which teaches sound basics to me is generally not a McDojo. But, seriously, how many of these places do? How many deliver anything remotely near what they promise?

Fooling consumers is a national industry, people make livings just teaching that 'skill'..... I have little reason to think MA is immune to this, and the postings on this Forum, to me, confirm that.

To the extent that some lazy and superficial students are complicit in this, the ones who want a sweat and blood free black belt as a ticket punch - there're as bad as their 'teachers'.

I always focus on worst case scenarios, and that goes back to military service... anyone can plan for the easy eventuality. I want to know what can blow up.

But essentially it all comes down to this: do you deliver the goods or services you promise? if you do not, here as everywhere, it is consumer fraud..... and that is always harmful to individual, to the art/trade and to society in general.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A dojo which teaches sound basics to me is generally not a McDojo.

Ah, I see now. Excuse me for not getting that. To my way of thinking, a McDojo is such because of the ways it resembles a McDonalds, hence the name. Franchised, low-to-middle quality, aimed at a particular market segment, provides a guaranteed product in exchange for a fee (Big Mac or Black Belt, side of mayo optional).

A McDojo to me is packaged goods. It has a basic focus of profit, not teaching. Like those trade schools that teach IT skills, but don't teach the liberal arts and other classes necessary to get an accredited degree - they are profit-based, not education-based. They are in business to make money; what they teach is secondary.

A Dojo can have some of the same features as a McDojo, but usually doesn't. That's because (IMHO), the instructors are generally very good martial artists with a love of what they teach, but not necessarily good business people who wish to earn a living from teaching it.

If the goal is to earn a living from teaching martial arts (and that's why I put it in this forum), 'real' dojos could take some lessons from the McDojo. They understand their market. The dojo and the McDojo do not have the same market, but it is still important to understand it. The McDojo treats the business of teaching martial arts as a business, and not as a labor of love. The McDojo can articulate the reasons a person would want to train there. The traditional dojo can do that too - even better - but seldom does.

It's like another thread I was involved in this morning - I liken it to my experiences trying to be in the business of photography. Sadly, it's not about photography, it's about the business of photography. Emphasis on business. There's more back-office than front-office, and taking photographs is the least of it. Being good at photography? Doesn't matter hardly at all when it comes to success or failure. A crap photographer can make it big if he can run a business well. It doesn't hurt to be good, but it's better to be a good business person if the goal is to run a business and not a hobby doing something you love.

 

[Steve]

There are lots of ways to make a living. Many are questionable but lucrative, selling inferior goods at an inflated price. Whether you're an unscrupulous used car salesman, or schilling a piece of plastic for 2 easy payments of $19.99 on an infomercial, or running what amounts to a daycare center under a TKD veneer. It's all the same.

If you want to do that, more power to you. Not for me. I sold furniture on commission while in college and was very good at it. But I got out within months of graduating and am thankful for it. I could have sold prettyuch anything, probably including martial arts but money isn't the only measure of success, even in business.

 

[jks9199]

Commercial martial arts -- even the day care disguised as martial arts -- are not inherently evil. Nor are many of the common elements of commercial martial arts, like contracts, testing fees, and the rest.

But there is plenty of evil in the more mercenary martial arts businesses. For example, one in my area will enroll a student in their "instructor program." They then expect that person, from day one, to teach in that style -- no matter their background. And pay for the privilege! (I know this, because I know someone who got stuck in this mess...) They jump on whatever they think will bring students in, collecting fees and limiting their choices... and have little tolerance for questioning.

Commercial martial arts serves a valid and necessary role; they get people interested and started. Commercial places in popular arts satisfy a lot of people's interest. But the places that scam students out of money, without any effort to provide an honest experience at the level they offer... They are wrong. And at least arguably evil.

 

[K-man]

OMG!! I have just realized ... not only am I the product of a McDojo, I am a certified card carrying member. My card tells me that when I joined I have a lifetime membership.

In this country you serve less time for murder!!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There are lots of ways to make a living. Many are questionable but lucrative, selling inferior goods at an inflated price. Whether you're an unscrupulous used car salesman, or schilling a piece of plastic for 2 easy payments of $19.99 on an infomercial, or running what amounts to a daycare center under a TKD veneer. It's all the same.

99% of everything is crap, and it all gets sold. Either the entire world is evil, or people like and want crap in most circumstances. It can't be evil to give people what they want and even demand.

If you want to do that, more power to you. Not for me. I sold furniture on commission while in college and was very good at it. But I got out within months of graduating and am thankful for it. I could have sold prettyuch anything, probably including martial arts but money isn't the only measure of success, even in business.

I certainly have no interest in running a McDojo. However, money is the only measure of success. One can only pay rent or a mortgage with money. One can only buy food with money. No money, no dojo; unless one intends to run it not as a business, but as a hobby or a labor of love. And there is nothing wrong with that; it's noble and admirable. But this being the the 'School Management' forum, it would seem that making money would be one of the topics of interest.

Seems that a lot of the responses I'm getting are focused on how evil or wrong or ineffective McDojos are. I get that. It's really not my point. I think aluminum siding is evil, and don't much care for the people who sell it, but it's bloody everywhere, and people seem to like the stuff. It would seem that if one were in the siding business, one would want to be good at it; meaning that one would want to make money doing it.

If one intends to make a profit and therefore 'be successful' at running a dojo, there are some lessons that can be learned from the evil McDojo. They have figured out some basic principles that can be applied to a non-McDojo without compromising principles or watering-down teaching.

I will say this - if I ever managed to acquire the skillset necessary to effectively teach martial arts (which I doubt I will, seeing as I haven't enough years left on the planet to do so given my late start), I would definitely look to the McDojo and take some of their lessons in running a business. It seems to me that there is a lot of money being left on the table.

 

[seasoned]

Good morning, after a somewhat good nights sleep I would like to interject a thought. I came through the ranks, in a DoJo. At that time the word Mcdojo was unheard of, but there were health spa's around, and that was the distinction. It really was cut and dry at that time, around the early 60's. Everyone that went to either one was looking for a specific product, (1) self defense, (2) or to get in shape, and drop a few pounds. The health spa would enroll anybody that walked in, and the focus was to transform your body back to that youthful form and vigor you once had, and they thrived. The DoJo on the other hand, was training "hardened warriors", and they got by. Each served a purpose. Enter the 70's and 80's and the business mind was set into motion , and the blending of both started to take place. Each serves a purpose, each has students, but the focus is not the same. Decide what you want, find out the focus of the DoJo or studio as they are sometimes called, and go for it.