McDojo's...I'm Lovin' it!

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ShaolinWolf

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Welcome to McDojo's, Home of the premature Black Belt...

Ok anyways how many McDojo's have you seen in your lifetime?

I used to go to one when I was 5 and then to the same one, only it moved to a different building, when I was 8. It was my first initial contact with TKD, and I'll never forget the failure it was. I remember all the stupid things that the "trainee instructor" had us do, and the original instructor just sat in his office doing paper work all the time. She ran us through drills that white belt little kids have an extremely hard time enjoying. Very hard, muscle training drills, and there were so many kids that quit when they moved to another building. And get this: a few years ago, the guy who owned the school just left with everybody's money, never to be seen again:idunno: . I think it was back in like 1996 or 1995. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I think he went bankrupted, or so he said and then he ran with everyone's money. I never made it past yellow belt both times I enrolled because the school was so cheap and I remember I wasn't ready for that level anyways.

Now get this: An official ATA school gets opened up in the same section of the shopping center in like 1996 or 1997. THey beat that guy's butt in sales and in producing great black belts and martial artist. This is the school I attend now. It is no McDojo's and the level of intensity can be difficult sometimes, but I enjoy it and am ready to beat the challenge. :jedi1:

I just find it funny the other guys didn't do all that well, and now the ATA school is flurishing...heh...McDojo's don't stay in business too long when they don't make it easy. LOL. The McDojo's I know of around here have alot of fun in their classes, but make life way too easy, even for black belts. I like things complicated, not McDojo's style.

Thank you for ordering from McDojo's...Please come again...LOL
 

Blindside

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Um, isn't the ATA the organization with the camoflage belt?

This is going to sound bad, but every ATA school that I have seen has been a McDojo. If you are attending the exception to this experience, well, count yourself lucky.

It may be that you have a different definition of a "McDojo" than everyone else. Your description of the school that had many people quitting due to hard drills does not indicate a McDojo to me.

She ran us through drills that white belt little kids have an extremely hard time enjoying. Very hard, muscle training drills, and there were so many kids that quit when they moved to another building.

Just my opinion,

Lamont
 

deadhand31

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Eh, you'll find McDojos in any organization. I've always been very wary of the ATA, however. I mean, I went to their site, www.ataonline.com, and took a look at their media section. I'm sorry, but the masters sparring session is a total ****ing joke. Each of them gets hit way too many times, and they throw too many spinning kicks at the worst possible moments. Then there's the master's board break video. The only one who breaks wood is using fake wood. How do you tell? Take a look at the last kick. It's a spinning crossing through two boards. First, he doesn't even follow through the boards, yet they snap. Second, look closely at where the two boards break. They break in two different places. These are MASTERS??????

Now, ShaolinWolf, don't take this personally. I know that even in the worst of organizations, there can be really good schools. Yours sounds like it's a good one. I, for one, know how that's like. I'm in a WTF school. There are people who'll bash WTF, and there are some pretty bad WTF schools out there. There are also some pretty bad ITF schools out there. There is no such thing as a perfect organization. That's something that everyone should keep in mind.
 

Touch Of Death

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deadhand31 said:
Eh, you'll find McDojos in any organization. I've always been very wary of the ATA, however. I mean, I went to their site, www.ataonline.com, and took a look at their media section. I'm sorry, but the masters sparring session is a total ****ing joke. Each of them gets hit way too many times, and they throw too many spinning kicks at the worst possible moments. Then there's the master's board break video. The only one who breaks wood is using fake wood. How do you tell? Take a look at the last kick. It's a spinning crossing through two boards. First, he doesn't even follow through the boards, yet they snap. Second, look closely at where the two boards break. They break in two different places. These are MASTERS??????

Now, ShaolinWolf, don't take this personally. I know that even in the worst of organizations, there can be really good schools. Yours sounds like it's a good one. I, for one, know how that's like. I'm in a WTF school. There are people who'll bash WTF, and there are some pretty bad WTF schools out there. There are also some pretty bad ITF schools out there. There is no such thing as a perfect organization. That's something that everyone should keep in mind.
Wait a second, could you explain a "good" time for a spinning kick.(ha ha) I think Mc Dojo is such an over used term. It would be like saying half the people on this board practice a Mc style. Its an opinion that can easily be refuted.
Sean
 
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elcajon555

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There are several times where a spinning technigue can be used well. If someone is coming in on you, you can catch them with a spinning tech. If someone is just circling the ring, spin in the oposite direction of the circle and they will run into your foot. Stepping back, like you are going to run away, thus bating them, and throwing spinning hook is also a good move. Spinning technigues can be used well, if they are used with stragedy. You should never just randomly spin, but it can be a good finishing techigue or a good counter.
 
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ShaolinWolf

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Actually, those Video Clips do suck...That is no where near the Masters' best abilities...Alot of material and stuff they choose as examples in ATA TKD suck and look so horrible, but that's because what the Grandmaster has as a good idea, we don't think so. This being the case, he almost always ends up putting some stupid stuff up that doesn't even show any of the good stuff. I liked the music vids, but the other stuff blows. Most of the stuff the masters do is pretty good, but if you seriously saw them at their schools, you'd say WHAT THE HECK?! You have to be in ATA to see the good stuff, I guess. Also, that stuff on the video was at the Masters Expo where they did simple stuff, so they wouldn't even work up a sweat. The video wasn't just to show their power or technique. I mean, yes, they should show it, but ATA is not the best organization for organization. LOL, that sounded funny. Heheheheh.

I'm not going to get into how many things stink about ATA. LOL. But I'm very glad I go to the School I do. The GrandMaster's schools are pretty intense, more so than ours. I don't think we do enough, but maybe its just me. Yes, we aren't allowed to punch to the head, which sucks, but then its for political reasons. ATA is widely known, and we have to keep things here and there political. But that doesn't mean that ATA knows that we do some boxing at my school, now does it? hehehehehe. ATA is not the most intense, I admit. And I'm thinking of someday taking another art, but right now, I'll stick with ATA. Unless I have to move to another area where the schools really suck. Then I'll look for another MA. My school is intense and also, as soon as you get up to BB it heats up several levels. Add being an instructor, it goes up even more heat.

The Masters go to the mountains each year and train for a week. Very rough stuff. VERY. I don't understand either why they chose those videos, because they don't even come close to their even smallest potential.

And speaking of the thing for the McDojo's, what I meant by a hard time, is a hard time for kids. At alot of the McDojo's they have, the workouts can be a pain for kids, because kids want to learn moves, not constantly work out. When I was 8, I wanted to kick and punch, not just work out. I don't think the second time I enrolled we even did much kicking, just working out. Then I remember seeing the adults, and they didn't do much working out, unless they were black belts. I'm just saying that it was pretty bad.

I know a McDojo's is pathetic because they don't do much of a work out at all and their students are just plain pathetic. I was just stating the downs of the school I went to back then.

I don't take it personally. Everyone knows that alot of the tournaments hosted by the Grandmaster, his brothers, and cousins are pretty pathetic. Not the tournaments itself, but the organization. The Lee's can't speak very good English at all, so their speeches are pretty short and small. And they do charity and fund raisers, but it's like get your picture taken with the Grandmaster for $12. ROFL. But I think that ATA is great nonetheless.

Again, I'm not against what you say. I don't take it personally. No Problem. I understand totally.

:asian:
 
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DeilGyre

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That's funny. I've never heard the term "McDojo."
I would think the term would be applied to pseudo martial arts schools, that really don't teach much in the way of MA skill. Just pretend karate, not to be used in a real combat situation. Something like a metaphor for a McDonald's food. (no real nutrition, bad for you...but the kids love it, and it's kinda all colorful and flashy.)

There was a kickboxing champion years ago that made excellent use of spinning back kicks. Forget his name, he was in a JC VanDamn movie.
 
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Mormegil

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During sparring, I would never throw a spinning kick by itself. The only time I ever do (which isn't too often), is after I throw lead hook kick (or lead round house to most), which is defended with a shuffle back and a lead hand kau sau - which is a technique where you catch the kick, and "scoop" it down and across.

If my opponent does it straight across, he gives me quite a bit of momentum, so I can plant, and throw a spinning rear straight kick (which is the only spinning kick I can throw with any competence). He should be pulling diagonally back to throw my balance off, but that doesn't happen all the time.


As far as McDojo's go. I've never been to one that I know of. Probably because I've never attended a "traditional" martial arts school. I've only studied FMA, Silat and JKD.
 

Touch Of Death

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elcajon555 said:
There are several times where a spinning technigue can be used well. If someone is coming in on you, you can catch them with a spinning tech. If someone is just circling the ring, spin in the oposite direction of the circle and they will run into your foot. Stepping back, like you are going to run away, thus bating them, and throwing spinning hook is also a good move. Spinning technigues can be used well, if they are used with stragedy. You should never just randomly spin, but it can be a good finishing techigue or a good counter.
While I'm sure you can make them work in class or sparring. The Margin for error is to small to make practicing them, for real life, practical. One might argue that Mc Dojos are where you learn all your spinning techs. I won't do that, but you see how easily the lable can be thrown around. Its easy to point a finger at others and laugh (God knows I do), But I think where ever you go there are those that work hard and those who don't. Its that simple.
Sean
 
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Jason Davis

Guest
ShaolinWolf said:
Welcome to McDojo's, Home of the premature Black Belt...

Ok anyways how many McDojo's have you seen in your lifetime?

I used to go to one when I was 5 and then to the same one, only it moved to a different building, when I was 8. It was my first initial contact with TKD, and I'll never forget the failure it was. I remember all the stupid things that the "trainee instructor" had us do, and the original instructor just sat in his office doing paper work all the time. She ran us through drills that white belt little kids have an extremely hard time enjoying. Very hard, muscle training drills, and there were so many kids that quit when they moved to another building. And get this: a few years ago, the guy who owned the school just left with everybody's money, never to be seen again:idunno: . I think it was back in like 1996 or 1995. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I think he went bankrupted, or so he said and then he ran with everyone's money. I never made it past yellow belt both times I enrolled because the school was so cheap and I remember I wasn't ready for that level anyways.

Now get this: An official ATA school gets opened up in the same section of the shopping center in like 1996 or 1997. THey beat that guy's butt in sales and in producing great black belts and martial artist. This is the school I attend now. It is no McDojo's and the level of intensity can be difficult sometimes, but I enjoy it and am ready to beat the challenge. :jedi1:

I just find it funny the other guys didn't do all that well, and now the ATA school is flurishing...heh...McDojo's don't stay in business too long when they don't make it easy. LOL. The McDojo's I know of around here have alot of fun in their classes, but make life way too easy, even for black belts. I like things complicated, not McDojo's style.

Thank you for ordering from McDojo's...Please come again...LOL
Seriously, if you have found a school that will teach you anything that is worth while...... you are extremely lucky. seriously 90% of all martial arts schools are places where either people go to drop off their kids for an hour, a place for unmotivated people to get a workout without having to pay for a personal trainer, or a place where you are among people who swear that "this school is the best in the world and no one could beat my master". Seriously most martial arts in america are all hype. So if you have found a school that will actually teach you something and not just say "you are the greatest martial artist in the world" just to make you pay to take the test for a new belt; stick with it you'll be glad you did when you actually understand something about yourself and what a human being is capable of.

If you have found a real school, and not where thats going to teach you how to "win a real fight","street fight" or win some tournament weather it be MMA or TMA then stick with it you'll be very glad you did when the time comes that you have to use what you know.

practice hard and everything will work out.:)
 
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Spud

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Interesting. I earned my first Dan in ATA Taekwondo back in 1992. I loved the quality of training and had a lot of respect for the skills of the students. I rejoined ATA last year and my opinion did a 180. IMHO the ATA has become a belt factory for kids. The adult program at my school fell apart soon after our original school owner left.

I have an enormous appreciation for the ATA forms, but overall the organization has started to drift towards too big of menu (fast food pun intended) – Emphasis on getting students into black belt or masters club, along with the introduction of Krav Maga and Judo plus the foam weapons and a wealth of 11-year old black belts with little dojang etiquette. Oh and the rules that the sparring gear must have ATA logo on them.

Given that, I would probably still be with the ATA today if my original instructor was still at the school. I’d like to think that my bad experience with the ATA is the exception and not the rule. I’m glad you are happy with your school and wish you the best with your training.
 
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elcajon555

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Touch'O'Death said:
While I'm sure you can make them work in class or sparring. The Margin for error is to small to make practicing them, for real life, practical. One might argue that Mc Dojos are where you learn all your spinning techs. I won't do that, but you see how easily the lable can be thrown around. Its easy to point a finger at others and laugh (God knows I do), But I think where ever you go there are those that work hard and those who don't. Its that simple.
Sean


I agree that spinning technigues aren;t very effective in a street fight, in fact most kicks aren;t, hands become much more useful and important. I was commenting on the fact that in sparring they can serve a purpose. But a sparring match is certainly not a fight and a fight is nothing like a sparring match.
 

Shu2jack

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I agree that some of the ATA schools are starting to become a belt factory. Most of those schools are in larger areas where you can make the real money and those are the schools that most people see unfortuneatly. If you find the right school, ATA's training can be awesome. Ask some of our Masters about the '82 training camp from hell. Knuckle pushups on gravel. Waking people up at 3 in the morning and making them workout until they puke because they allowed the American and Korean flags to get wet when a storm camp up, etc.

As an ATA instructor I see a lot of schools that deliver quality instruction. I also see some schools that I am embarrassed to considered connected to. The videos you saw at the ATA's website? Hell, I am only a second degree in the organization and my board breaks can be tougher and done with 2 inches of real wood. Yes, I was very unimpressed with the whole thing. I believe the Masters were capable of better and the whole thing was more for show than an actual testing, which ticks me off too.

But yeah, never base the quality of training on a organization. Base it on the individual school/instructor. The ATA as a whole is becoming a "family and value oriented" martial art, but there are many instructors out there who will hit you with a side kick hard enough to bruise your ribs and knock you into the wall if you let them.
 

Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

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I wouldn't rule out all spinning stuff. I've had good luck with spinning back hammerfists and spin-back elbows in the close quartes of a club with guys coming up from behind to help their buddies. Got the idea from a guy I worked with; we spent a couple afternoons drilling them on focus pads and heavy bags, and whaddya know...the suckers worked. Used them more often since they were on my mind, and made some really solid, unexpected contact with jaws and parietum. Although I do have to admit I'm one of the first people to grin with glee when I see a potential opponent throw either a spinning kick to intimidate me, or one of these 20 roundhouse kick things from half-a-chamber without putting their foot down. Those are some of the first signs that "this is going to be easy". Fancy kicks with pretty noses and no cauliflower ears = easy target.
 
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ShaolinWolf

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Hey, Shu2jack, do you guys teach Krav Maga at your school? Any other MA other than the TKD set cirriculum?
 
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Black Bear

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mcdojo(.com I think) used to be the URL of a site which is now bullshido.com. An American fast food company whom I will not name threatened legal action against them. Too bad, they had great t-shirts and everything ("would you like fries with that black belt").

Everyone has their own definition for a mcdojo. To me, it involves not only poor quality of service and instruction, but that they put a priority on income. Some regional "family oriented" tkd chains in town come to mind.
 

Shu2jack

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"Hey, Shu2jack, do you guys teach Krav Maga at your school? Any other MA other than the TKD set cirriculum?"

Nope. If taught properly the standard cirriculum teaches you everything you need to know in stand up fighting. Our forms, one-steps, and self-defense drills (yes, they have those for each rank) teach joint locks, pressure points, escapes, close combat/grappling striking techniques, etc. We have an instructor who teaches LEOs PPCT and joint manipulation, but that stuff is basic material that we learn as a color belt. (Self-defense drills!!) Really, there isn't a need for other programs in those areas if you train with the material properly.

The only weakness that our standard material has is that it doesn't teach ground fighting and it doesn't teach knife/gun defense very well. We have a few instructors who train with other people profiecent in that area and take that knowledge to our school, but it is far from complete.
 
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ShaolinWolf

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Well, we don't teach Krav maga either. We teach all the stuff you teach, but we also teach advanced grappling/ground fighting and knife/gun defense.

That's cool, though.
 

Shu2jack

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Knife/gun defense is something I need more practice with. We have started ground fighting a while back and instead of sparring in classes, I have ran classes where we go over submissions and grappling positions, then ground fight. I have gotten myself up to the point where I can take on college wrestlers and do pretty decently, though we have trobule determining who "wins". They usually "pin" me (keep my shoulder blades to the ground for a short length of time), but I tend go to the guard and use pressure points/chokes to actually make them tap out.
 

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