It was only a matter of time. McDojo vitcim beaten up

[JowGaWolf]

There have been discussion about the dangers of people thinking that they can do martial arts when they really can't. Today a Jow Ga parent mentioned to me that her friend's son is taking martial arts (for 7yrs) from one of these McDojos and he had his butt kick by a group of boys. When the Mcdojo parent asked her son why didn't he defend himself with what he learned from the Martial Art school, the son replied that the school taught them that it's not honorable to fight or to use karate to hurt people.

The Jow Ga parent asked the McDojo parent if her school had a day dedicated to use the applications or if the school actually taught the children how to use the techniques they were learning. The McDojo parent replied with a No.

7 years of martial art training and none of it was any use for this kid, because some instructor told that kid that it wasn't honorable to fight or to use karate to hurt people.

 

[MAfreak]

maybe he was beaten up because it was a group who attacked him.
telling students they shouldn't hurt people doesn't make it a mcdojo. maybe he was just afraid of striking back.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

How old was the kid? A 10 year old whos been training for 7 years and a 17 year old whos been training for 7 years are two entirely different things.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I don't expect my art to help me beat up street gangs, and neither should you.

 

[RTKDCMB]

When the Mcdojo parent asked her son why didn't he defend himself with what he learned from the Martial Art school, the son replied that the school taught them that it's not honorable to fight or to use karate to hurt people.

Perhaps the student or parent misunderstood what the school's instructor was actually saying? "it's not honorable to fight or to use karate to hurt people" could simply mean that it is not honorable to use Karate to start fights and to use it to attack people for the sake of inflicting harm rather than trying to reduce harm to the student caused by the attacker by defending themselves.

In my school one of the statements in the pledge is 'to put the art into use only for self defense and the defense of the weak'. This is fairly unambiguous (except maybe who.constitutes the 'weak').

 

[crazydiamond]

My daughter is turning 8, and been studying for about two years. Our school is also has them recite a pledge to only use force if their life is in danger or the life of someone else. She listens. Also its hard for some kids to gain a fighting spirit, even when they may be strong and have good skills. My daughter has the size and strength of a 10 year old, and good skills, but she is such a sweet, funny sensitive girl - I worry about her ability to fight back if she had too. Maybe at some point in her development and growth - or under the right self defense threat - her skills would automatically kick in. But I worry about that. Can you teach a Golden Retriever to be an attack dog when needed?

Lastly - multiple opponents is among the toughest situations I can think off - other than weapons.

 

[Balrog]

7 years of martial art training and none of it was any use for this kid, because some instructor told that kid that it wasn't honorable to fight or to use karate to hurt people.

There's another thing to consider as well. Was this at school? If so, the kid was probably afraid to defend himself because he would have been expelled for fighting.

 

[donald1]

Its funny how people say karate isnt honorable for defensive proposes while completly forgetting the reason why its even needed in the first place.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There's another thing to consider as well. Was this at school? If so, the kid was probably afraid to defend himself because he would have been expelled for fighting.

It was outside of school.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My daughter is turning 8, and been studying for about two years. Our school is also has them recite a pledge to only use force if their life is in danger or the life of someone else. She listens. Also its hard for some kids to gain a fighting spirit, even when they may be strong and have good skills. My daughter has the size and strength of a 10 year old, and good skills, but she is such a sweet, funny sensitive girl - I worry about her ability to fight back if she had too. Maybe at some point in her development and growth - or under the right self defense threat - her skills would automatically kick in. But I worry about that. Can you teach a Golden Retriever to be an attack dog when needed?

Lastly - multiple opponents is among the toughest situations I can think off - other than weapons.

Punches and kicks can kill so, in my book the moment attacker(s) start throwing punches is the moment kids should fight back. In a fist fight "life is in danger" could be the point where the child is on the ground about to get their head stomped, and unfortunately if the child is in that position there's very little fight left if any. The self defense skills should come out before "life is in danger" becomes an issue or concern.
Three girls charged after teen beaten to death in school bathroom

I agree with you that it's hard for some kids to gain a fighting spirit.

Can you teach a Golden Retriever to be an attack dog when needed? Yes as long as you don't make the dog submissive to everything.
As adults in general we kind of do the same things to kids. We try to make them submissive to everything: -fighting is bad
-fighting will get you suspended
-only bad people fight
-if someone hits you go tell a teacher
-hitting is bad
-if someone wants to fight you just walk away
-don't use martial art unless your life is in danger
-don't use martial arts to fight
-if a bully is bothering you ignore them and walk away
-if a bully is bothering you go tell a teacher
-fighting is a sign of low intelligence.
-if a person in the street comes after you don't hit first
-don't fight in the street because you'll get arrested
-don't hit a child that's under 18 or you'll go to jail (keep in mind not all teens are small and friendly)
-physical hazing

This list may not seem a lot until you think of how often a child or even an adult may hear these things. It's only a matter of time that these things start becoming more important than that person's safety.

Your daughter will be fine as long as your daughter is learning how to use what she is learning to physically fight and protect herself and understands that she can use it when someone one wants to harm her, regardless if they are going to take her life or not.

 

[JowGaWolf]

maybe he was beaten up because it was a group who attacked him.
telling students they shouldn't hurt people doesn't make it a mcdojo. maybe he was just afraid of striking back.

My school trains students how to fight multiple attackers, just because a group of people attack you doesn't mean you can't win. The only thing a group of attackers means, is that you better out run all of them or prepare to fight a hard fight.

If the child is good nature and understand that what they are learning is only used to defend themselves, then there is no need to tell them not to hurt people. Teaching someone how to hurt people (which is what martial art techniques do) and then telling them not to hurt people sends mixed signals. Instead of saying not to hurt people, just say that they are only supposed to use it to defend themselves. And when they have to physically defend themselves then make sure it hurts. If I came to punch you in the face, then I'm pretty sure that you want your attacks to hurt me.

Why would you teach a child a martial art technique that was designed to hurt someone and then tell them not to hurt someone? Now when they get into a real fight, the first thing that's going to come to their mind is "Don't hurt people"

In my book McDojos are schools that make students believe that they have the skills to fight, when in reality they don't. These schools mislead students in thinking that what they are learning can protect them.

 

[MAfreak]

every good school trains fights with multiple attackers, we did so too in karate and krav maga for example does also. but one should keep in mind (and teach) that its anyway low percentage.
one can't except from a kid to be "badass" enough to risk to lenghten the fight. i guess he just wanted it to end, so he let them do. even if they train great technique in this school, its not guaranteed that the ego of every practitioner gets big enough. however maybe he trained in a mcdojo, we can't know, but to be honest (no offense) i personally think that 95% of kung fu schools are mcdojos too.

 

[Andrew Green]

Groups will almost always beat individuals. No surprise there. How effective he would have been is irrelevant, he chose not to fight back. Whether or not he should have will have different opinions, some people are just pacifists and will go with the "turn the other cheek" option. Part of that might be on the school, and part of it is also on the parent to discuss when it is appropriate to fight back, which I think is more of a parental decision then a martial arts instructor one.

 

[Andrew Green]

every good school trains fights with multiple attackers, we did so too in karate and krav maga for example does also. but one should keep in mind (and teach) that its anyway low percentage.
one can't except from a kid to be "badass" enough to risk to lenghten the fight. i guess he just wanted it to end, so he let them do. even if they train great technique in this school, its not guaranteed that the ego of every practitioner gets big enough. however maybe he trained in a mcdojo, we can't know, but to be honest (no offense) i personally think that 95% of kung fu schools are mcdojos too.

That's a pretty big generalization... I'd be very surprised if many top Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, MMA, wrestling, etc. schools did. Even on the asian side, I bet the Olympic TKD and Judo teams don't spend much time if any worrying about that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Lastly - multiple opponents is among the toughest situations I can think of

I think it's easier for kids and it gets more difficult as we get older. Not many kids can take a punch so a good punch or kick to the stomach or face is enough to stop most kids. Notice how nothing comes back in return after being hit in the face. Being punched in the face or having the wind knock out of you for the first time is a big shock for most kids and is more than enough to stop the attack from that person. By the time we are adults we would have already experienced one of these 2 things if not both.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Groups will almost always beat individuals. No surprise there. How effective he would have been is irrelevant, he chose not to fight back. Whether or not he should have will have different opinions, some people are just pacifists and will go with the "turn the other cheek" option. Part of that might be on the school, and part of it is also on the parent to discuss when it is appropriate to fight back, which I think is more of a parental decision then a martial arts instructor one.

The parent actually confronted the Instructor about this because she wasn't happy that her child wasn't able to protect himself when the fight came and that his reason for not fighting back was because he was told that it wasn't honorable to use karate to fight back.

 

[MAfreak]

That's a pretty big generalization... I'd be very surprised if many top Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, MMA, wrestling, etc. schools did. Even on the asian side, I bet the Olympic TKD and Judo teams don't spend much time if any worrying about that.

ok, i should have said good self defense training schools, not combat sports.

 

[MAfreak]

The parent actually confronted the Instructor about this because she wasn't happy that her child wasn't able to protect himself when the fight came and that his reason for not fighting back was because he was told that it wasn't honorable to use karate to fight back.

what did he answer?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

This is in our dojo:

I come to you with only Karate, empty hands.
I have no weapons, but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles, or my honor
Should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong
Then here are my weapons
My empty hands.

-- Ed Parker​

I will never attack anyone. I will defend myself by any means necessary. It is a human right that cannot be denied and is generally supported by both law and morals. No child should be taught to use their martial arts skills to hurt other people, to bully, or to start fights. However, no child should be told they must not defend themselves if attacked. I don't care if they defend themselves with the martial arts they learned, or a big stick they picked up off the ground; if their lives are in danger and they cannot run away, they have every right to defend themselves. We are teaching the wrong values to children if we are teaching that there is something wrong with self-defense. We should instead make sure they clearly understand what the difference is between self-defense and attack, and that they are always allowed to defend themselves. My 2 cents.

 

[Buka]

The parent actually confronted the Instructor about this because she wasn't happy that her child wasn't able to protect himself when the fight came and that his reason for not fighting back was because he was told that it wasn't honorable to use karate to fight back.

Wow. What that instructor said is the most damn fool thing I've heard in a long time.
So....I wonder if I started slapping him upside the head if he would defend himself?