I got pretty mad last night

Manny

Senior Master
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
125
Location
Veracruz,Mexico
Afther finishing the tkd session last night the second dan teen who was giving class in absence os sabonim yelled "numbers" (line up!!!) to finish class. I lined up yelling Hana (1) en asumed a very martial kibon chumbee sogi posicion.... the following black belts and the oyher gups line up in such a way without counting in korean (dool, set,net....) that I told the instructor and the other students to yell the number of the line up lane... and.... what the f......???? the teen instructor with a smile told me.... Mr. Manny tht's something of the past.. we don't count in korean anymore.... What??? yes Mr. manny that's old stuff thet we don't.... wait a minute mait a minte I said. This is a dojang a training hall and WE STUDY TKD an ancient MARTIAL ART!!!! How you can tell me we don't speakj in korean comends?? In aikido all the isntructions are given in japanese, in Shotokan the sensei speaks the tecnikes in japanese.... How you can tell me (instructor) tahta you make meditation using korean comendas (mu簽on chishap) and bow to the flaf (kukideo kyunget) and don't use korean numbers.

Every time I teach class we practice in korean the comends and it's silly how thre black belts said to me WHAT? WHAT DO YOU SAY? and I have to translate to Spanish.

What if.... you guys have the oportunity to go to kukiwon for a seminar and the grandmaster only give you comands in korean? Are you gona say WHAT? or I DON?T KNOW?? c'mon.

Afther the class was over I stay ouside the dojang talking with some guys and told them that in TKD class is a MUST to know tht korena terminology and use it and WE (black blets seniors and new ones) are the only guilty to give TKD a bad reputation for been so light, and I pointed at the luminous advrertisement outside the dojang it reads Hwarang Tae Kwond Do Korean Martial Art school!!!!

It really pisses me up when the young people are so lazy to take TKD seriusly, teen se line up without respect or martiality, taking the time to rehidrate to grab the cel phones to chat or see the facebook or social net, people not payining atention to class and even lying flat on the matt in the few moment we have to rehidarte and take a breath...

I am very and truly mad.

Manny
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
18,712
Reaction score
5,662
Location
Pueblo West, CO
A - Taekwondo is not ancient.
B - Using Korean is purely the choice of the instructor. I do, but it's certainly not going to stop someone from learning if they don't count in Korean.


Take one of those deep breaths you mentioned. :)
 

Touch Of Death

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 6, 2003
Messages
11,610
Reaction score
844
Location
Spokane Valley WA
Afther finishing the tkd session last night the second dan teen who was giving class in absence os sabonim yelled "numbers" (line up!!!) to finish class. I lined up yelling Hana (1) en asumed a very martial kibon chumbee sogi posicion.... the following black belts and the oyher gups line up in such a way without counting in korean (dool, set,net....) that I told the instructor and the other students to yell the number of the line up lane... and.... what the f......???? the teen instructor with a smile told me.... Mr. Manny tht's something of the past.. we don't count in korean anymore.... What??? yes Mr. manny that's old stuff thet we don't.... wait a minute mait a minte I said. This is a dojang a training hall and WE STUDY TKD an ancient MARTIAL ART!!!! How you can tell me we don't speakj in korean comends?? In aikido all the isntructions are given in japanese, in Shotokan the sensei speaks the tecnikes in japanese.... How you can tell me (instructor) tahta you make meditation using korean comendas (mu簽on chishap) and bow to the flaf (kukideo kyunget) and don't use korean numbers.

Every time I teach class we practice in korean the comends and it's silly how thre black belts said to me WHAT? WHAT DO YOU SAY? and I have to translate to Spanish.

What if.... you guys have the oportunity to go to kukiwon for a seminar and the grandmaster only give you comands in korean? Are you gona say WHAT? or I DON?T KNOW?? c'mon.

Afther the class was over I stay ouside the dojang talking with some guys and told them that in TKD class is a MUST to know tht korena terminology and use it and WE (black blets seniors and new ones) are the only guilty to give TKD a bad reputation for been so light, and I pointed at the luminous advrertisement outside the dojang it reads Hwarang Tae Kwond Do Korean Martial Art school!!!!

It really pisses me up when the young people are so lazy to take TKD seriusly, teen se line up without respect or martiality, taking the time to rehidrate to grab the cel phones to chat or see the facebook or social net, people not payining atention to class and even lying flat on the matt in the few moment we have to rehidarte and take a breath...

I am very and truly mad.

Manny
If it can't be taught in Spanish, it might be too tedious, I am all for it. :)
 

Thousand Kicks

Green Belt
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
110
Reaction score
18
Manny,

I feel your pain, but unfortunately the answer is you're going to have to find a way to adapt. It's not your school so you have to respect the way your instructor wants to run his classes. Just because it's not the way you did it when you were coming up doesn't mean it's wrong...it's just different.

I really feel your pain on the last point. I too see kids come in and talk and mess around before class. My instructor has told them many times if they get there early to use the time to practice and warm up so they can get more out of class, but they never do. Unfortunately. you can't make people care as much as you care.

You've mentioned the idea of leaving your existing TKD school and searching for something else. Maybe higher powers agree with you and are telling you it's time to move on.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
22,351
Reaction score
2,581
Location
Northern VA
I suspect that it wasn't so much about counting in Korean as the name in which he corrected you. Seems like he was rather disrespectful towards his literal and TaeKwonDo senior. Perhaps a discussion between you two and your shared instructor could resolve this and help the young man in his future relationships.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
18,712
Reaction score
5,662
Location
Pueblo West, CO
I'm sure Manny can expand, but in other recounted conversations, "Mr Manny" seems to be what he's called all the time. :)
 

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
5,783
Reaction score
1,444
Granted, we're only hearing one side of the story, but "that's the past, we don't do that anymore" is the issue I saw. With that said, I don't think that Taekwondo needs to be in Korean to be taught. Do I do a better technique because I heard it in another language? No. Learning the Korean in addition to the art is a good thing, but not necessary.

I'll echo a point above, though. Taekwondo isn't ancient. It derives from Tang Soo Do, which has it's recent roots in Karate, and Takkyeon (?spelling?) which is an ancient Korean art.

Just curious, how much Korean do you think someone should know? I know 1-29, the names of the forms, and a couple of techniques, but not every technique/stance/etc. My master instructor and all of the primary instructors at the school are Korean (as in, they've spent most of their lives there). I also know "hurry up" because we hear that a lot when putting on/taking off our sparring gear.
 

Gnarlie

Master of Arts
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
1,913
Reaction score
442
Location
Germany
I also know "hurry up" because we hear that a lot when putting on/taking off our sparring gear.

Palli Palli!

I think for someone serious about Taekwondo (for that read a dan grade who intends to visit and train in Korea) then Korean is important, as is an insight into the culture of Korea.

You certainly can get access to more information when you show willingness to learn the language and culture of Korea.

For someone who views Taekwondo as a leisure activity rather than a way of life, I guess it's up to the individual instructor.

The official language of sport Taekwondo is allegedly English, but it seems not everyone involved speaks it.

Personally, I'd seek out somewhere where Korean commands are taught. They would be difficult to learn at the last minute on the flight to Korea, and I think not teaching them speaks volumes about the instructors connection (or lack of) to the home culture of the art.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
18,712
Reaction score
5,662
Location
Pueblo West, CO
I'll echo a point above, though. Taekwondo isn't ancient. It derives from Tang Soo Do, which has it's recent roots in Karate, and Takkyeon (?spelling?) which is an ancient Korean art.

Well, no... Taekwondo is a modern art that has it's roots primarily in Shotokan Karate. Tang Soo Do was what GM Hwang Kee called the art taught in his Moo Duk Kwan before he changed the name to Soo Bahk Do. Tang Soo is nothing other than the Korean pronunciation of "Karate". Claiming that taekwondo is derived from TSD is wholly inaccurate.
As for takkyon, there is no real evidence that this game survived the occupation of Korea and the suppression of its culture by the Japanese. Certainly there was nobody involved with the unification of the Kwans and the development of taekwondo with a takkyon background.
GM Hwang, for example, wasn't even born until 9-10 years after the occupation began.

I do agree (and have said many times) that speaking Korean is absolutely not necessary for teaching or learning taekwondo. Neither is knowing the history of the art. Both are nice, but not mandatory.
 

donald1

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
3,467
Reaction score
714
My instructions has would sometimes tell stories how his karate teacher spoke mostly Japanese and when he spoke English it was hard to understand him. And would hit the students with all stick when they didn't listen, don't do technique correctly or don't follow correct orders

In my opinion maybe they just need someone to be more strict with them
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
22,351
Reaction score
2,581
Location
Northern VA
I'm sure Manny can expand, but in other recounted conversations, "Mr Manny" seems to be what he's called all the time. :)

You can call someone sir or by title and be extremely disrespectful... But even without that sort of thing, the manner of the correction here is what I caught. It wasn't "hey, we haven't counted in Korean in a long time..." but almost "you geezer! we don't do that anymore!"
 

Metal

Green Belt
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
175
Reaction score
44
Location
Essen, Germany
In my opinion Korean terminology should be used and in my opinion every 1st Dan should know the basics.

Whenever I'm training outside of Germany it's never a problem to join any classes due to the Korean terminology. I mean, besides the commands and terminology they use their native language, but there was at least a common base.

And yeah, what about joining a Kukkiwon instructor's course? As a matter of respect you should know the basic commands, techniques and be able to count to ten.

I mean, you don't need to speak Korean when you drive a Hyundai or when you use a Samsung smartphone. You also don't need to speak Korean when you train Taekwondo. But when you go to a Korean Restaurant then you order Bibimbap and not the 'mixed rice bowl' and when you train Taekwondo you do Yeop Chagis and not sidekicks.
 

Thousand Kicks

Green Belt
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
110
Reaction score
18
I will agree that knowing Korean terminolgy is nice, but it in no way means that you understand the Korean culture or understand TKD any better. Yeop chagi means sidekick. Sidekicks were not invented by Koreans. Sidekicks are used in many other martial arts. Yeop chagi is a Korean word(s) that is directly translated in English to sidekick.

We are not talking about learning the language, we are only talking about learning words. So, I don't understand why it's a big deal. If I went to train in Germany, and couldn't speak German, it might help to know the Korean terms so there would be a way to understand what the instructor wanted me to do. However, If I knew German the result is the same or better. Because they're just words, not the meaning of life.

TKD is a part of Korean culture, it is the the whole culture itself. Saying we understand Korean culture because we study TKD and know some terminolgy is...in error.
 
OP
Manny

Manny

Senior Master
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
125
Location
Veracruz,Mexico
In my opinion Korean terminology should be used and in my opinion every 1st Dan should know the basics.

Whenever I'm training outside of Germany it's never a problem to join any classes due to the Korean terminology. I mean, besides the commands and terminology they use their native language, but there was at least a common base.

And yeah, what about joining a Kukkiwon instructor's course? As a matter of respect you should know the basic commands, techniques and be able to count to ten.

I mean, you don't need to speak Korean when you drive a Hyundai or when you use a Samsung smartphone. You also don't need to speak Korean when you train Taekwondo. But when you go to a Korean Restaurant then you order Bibimbap and not the 'mixed rice bowl' and when you train Taekwondo you do Yeop Chagis and not sidekicks.

Ypu got my point. It's importante to know the korean terminoly and comands? ABSOLUTELY YES!!! It's part of the Korean Martial Art of Tae Kwon Do period. In every single karate dojo or judo dojo or aikido dojo I have listening the comands in japanese even the counting numbers, the names of the katas, names of the kicks,blocks,stances,hand techs, etc,etc why the we can't do the same? I will tell you.. because we are lazy to teach and to learn period.

I don't wana students learn Korean ( I will happy if they do but that's not necesary or mandatory) however I want the students to be polite and follow the rules and know the name of the techs and some kind of stuff. When I ask students to perform a taeguk I always ask the korean name of the taeguk followed by his number in spanish for example... Please Bob do taeguk palyang/forma numero ocho, chariot (atention) kyonget (bow), chilchat (start).

Yes I know that's not my dojang but as long as I know my sambonim has given me carte blanche to teach my class as I wanted but following comon sense and faollow certain rules, and I use kjorean terminology and certanly I would use it when I have my own dojo.

Manny
 
OP
Manny

Manny

Senior Master
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
125
Location
Veracruz,Mexico
A long time ago Grand Master An Dae Sup came to my city to give tkd seminars, this old tkd champion from Korea spoke english a little, korean and barely some words in Spanish he always gave the comands in korean and very rarely spoke a few words in English, so if grand master asked you a kick or a hand tech or stance (using korean comands) and you froze he will give you a slap in the forehead or.... worst.... pushups!!!

We need to encorage our students to study the comands and some words in korean, many years ago this was a must and was a part of the teste/examinations so we studied a lot this because we knew the importance of it.

Call me square! I don't mind.

Manny
 

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
5,783
Reaction score
1,444
Manny, I'd rather spend my time learning the techniques by names I understand than also learning the names ;) (A bit tongue-in-cheek, but you get the point).

One thing that's interesting (and I'll have to ask them why they do this) but there are a few lower-grade black belts that will say "Cheryeot...Bow". Why not say "Attention, bow" or "cheryeot, kunye"...I don't know.

Every once in a while we'll start using random languages for counting, i.e. one person will use Spanish, then Japanese, Chinese, etc. I'm wondering how many pushups I'll get when I bust out the Klingon.
 

donald1

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
3,467
Reaction score
714
My instructor doesn't. Get on to people when they speak English instead of Japanese commands but it's mostly lower ranks and younger students

Once my instructor used the strict training for a week cause a lot of the upper belts (i was one that was also curious) what it was like and he said it would be a good idea to do it for a week. That was almost scary when you couldn't see him cause you never knew when he would come up to you and hit you but when he did you felt it and he expected you to know why and if you do didn't fix it next time was harder. And don't turn around and look (i didn't make that mistake but the upper belt next to me did and the instructor went right for him)

I don't know what is the best way to help students get motivated besides strictness and tell them to do pushups but I will probably know an effective method,
Best of luck
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
21,076
Reaction score
5,950
If you are going to learn a style learn all of it.

I did capo and had to learn songs. The culture is part of the martial arts.
 

Gwai Lo Dan

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
863
Reaction score
118
Every time I teach class we practice in korean the comends and it's silly how thre black belts said to me WHAT? WHAT DO YOU SAY? and I have to translate to Spanish.

What if.... you guys have the oportunity to go to kukiwon for a seminar and the grandmaster only give you comands in korean? Are you gona say WHAT? or I DON?T KNOW?? c'mon.

Another aspect is that with most schools using Korean terms, you can follow along much easier if you were to visit a foreign school. For instance, I liked the drills in this video from France. Manny, you would probably catch some things based on French and Spanish being latin languages, but then you also understand a bit more with the Korean. For instance, at 3:55 when he has his leg up, points to his eyes and says "up chagi" you know he means that your opponent sees a front kick coming.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top