How hard is it to become proficient in weapons based martial arts compared to physical fighting ones?

Monkey Turned Wolf

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No, i have experience[Per definition], what i dont have is offical paid for instruction.

Definition(s) of expereince from dictionaries i use:

[uncountable] the knowledge and skill that you have gained through doing something for a period of time; the process of gaining this

(the process of getting) knowledge or skill from doing, seeing, or feeling things:

I will not persue semantics any further.




No real rebuttal, i agree with the point. I know the issues of sourcing and finding them, but those issues existing doesnt mean its not proper to cite sources. Ok that doesnt sound right in my head, but what ever i dont want to spend anymore time on this.
Yes, but reading articles and practicing by yourself does not provide knowledge or skill. By the same logic that me reading articles and practicing to swim on land does not provide experience in swimming. I agree on no more time on this though. Really I just wanted to check to see if anything had changed, or if you are still providing advice, in a way that makes it sound like you know you are doing, without having done anything.
 
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Flyingknee

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With regards to studies, there is a replication problem in research and it's a HUGE problem. It's big even in the hard sciences let alone in social science.
 

Gerry Seymour

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The issue was the citation and linking to them and the consistency in doing so. Not directly related to this thread, i dont know if any sources were linked or not, nor have i read the entire thing but its besides my general point. I have seen plenty of "studies have shown" with no actual citation to a reliable source if any source.

(and i am getting around to replying to monkies post on that)
I wasn't talking about citaiton. It's more about the habit of where the information comes from. YouTube information is a poor substitute for doing some actual research on a topic. Sometimes that research is experiential, sometimes it academic.
 

John dye

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And would you recommend training in one weapon at a time or in more and how many?
It is easier to become proficient with your hands then a weapon you cannot fully practice with weapons forms just give you a base and reminders proficiency can only be gained in combat and its profiency or death unlike. Hand to Hand no tap outs. As for how many weapons. 18 was limit @ shaolin. But many are variations. Short mid long range. So knife. Sword spear. Or today hand or stick knife gun. More then two very difficult to master. But you should have three ranges. No different then. Jujitsu Boxing kickboxing
Philipino arts are very weapons based and profficient much more then traditional kungfu or karate. Silat is also good. Indonesian arts
 

drop bear

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Define experience, because the lack of holster i have for any airsoft pistol really does hamper any ability to do drawing practise. (for any weapon actually, training knives dont tend to come with sheaths, institutional problem there, i know :p)

When/If we determine what experience here is, i can answer.




Thats dishonest, its from internet research AND swinging broom handles in the back garden. :p


Hardly anyone cites any studies either, i dont think there are many actual studies into many martial arts concepts etc, and if there are, no ones linked me to them or they are behind a paywall or are more for the police/military so not really useful for civlian digestion.
Without going onto a 2 hour essay tangent rant on this. I dont think anyones actually given me studies, they always go "studies have shown" or "the science shows us" and doesnt actually cite the source. I have not seen any study or statistic on concussions or linked about concussions in boxing yet people still go "Studies have shown" x100 without linking the actual piece. Its poor science at best, fradulent at worst.

Some people may have but its so far and few between that i have probbly forgotten it.

I am getting my cold steel rubber knife sheath 3d printed hopefully. I will let you know how that works out.

Otherwise. Training folders will allow you to train draw options. (Which seems to get used a bit in dog brothers fights)

And yes that is the irony of asking for weapons experience. Where it is the subject in which it is most likely whole systems are drawing their experience from who knows where. Because not a lot of people out there in weapons fights.

I did about 3 years of hocks weapons systems. And it didn't really help me with real weapons fights. Sort of.

I could have taken some of the simpler stuff and drilled live and been a lot better off. Rather than the new cool tricks that tended to be pushed forward.

In other words. Go find a friend, a couple of foam bats and some headgear.
 
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drop bear

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Yes, but reading articles and practicing by yourself does not provide knowledge or skill. By the same logic that me reading articles and practicing to swim on land does not provide experience in swimming. I agree on no more time on this though. Really I just wanted to check to see if anything had changed, or if you are still providing advice, in a way that makes it sound like you know you are doing, without having done anything.

Play the ball. Not the man.
 

Blindside

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Practice drawing your folding knife under pressure, this could as easily be done with a firearm:

To use a Dog Brother Martial Arts term "In Fight Weapon Access." (And yes we are well aware that the scenario of going from stick dueling to firearm draw is silly, part of the training is being aware of what the other guy's hands are doing at all times, so this is training for both fighters.)
 
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I am getting my cold steel rubber knife sheath 3d printed hopefully. I will let you know how that works out.

Otherwise. Training folders will allow you to train draw options. (Which seems to get used a bit in dog brothers fights)

And yes that is the irony of asking for weapons experience. Where it is the subject in which it is most likely whole systems are drawing their experience from who knows where. Because not a lot of people out there in weapons fights.

I did about 3 years of hocks weapons systems. And it didn't really help me with real weapons fights. Sort of.

I could have taken some of the simpler stuff and drilled live and been a lot better off. Rather than the new cool tricks that tended to be pushed forward.

In other words. Go find a friend, a couple of foam bats and some headgear.


In fairness, i wouldnt be drawing anything from my hip etc, if anyone invaded my house it would be a grab it case, one of the reasons i cant do sheaf work is clothing options, the other is the lack of sheaths. And id also have the thing in my hand if i thought somone broke in.

force on force with weapons is 50/50, its harder to do it safely and in general harder to do it well than unarmed, and i can see logic in both ways, plus the type that would put pressure on you to draw is not 99% of weapon martial arts, thats more found in a self defence class. although there is the middle between no sparring and sparring and thats paired kata.

I really dont know where they draw it from, as long as you swing your preffered weapon around a bit and get a feel for it before you use it, your probbly on equal or better footing than most people out there, what is really the diffrence in doing that under supervison and hoping they know how to use it as a weapon, or just seeing what works for free? Sure if you can do it safely you could throw some force on force in there, but a lot of shooting training doesnt have that and many people use firearms successfully. Although pressure testing is normally done in shooting classes beyond basics, but a argument for anothe day of what comprable pressure testing is. :p

Addendum: although, good luck finding a target for a quater staff, your probbly going to wreak your heavy bag quicker. Or the staff.
 

frank raud

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Define experience, because the lack of holster i have for any airsoft pistol really does hamper any ability to do drawing practise. (for any weapon actually, training knives dont tend to come with sheaths, institutional problem there, i know :p)
If you buy a training knife that is an actual copy of a particular knife, they often do come with a sheath. If you are buying a generic training blade, what is stopping you from have a sheath made from leather or kydex to practice drawing from? Or using the sheath from a real blade.

As you acknowledge the lack of a holster is a definite shortcoming in your "training", the obvious question is why don't you get one?
 
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If you buy a training knife that is an actual copy of a particular knife, they often do come with a sheath. If you are buying a generic training blade, what is stopping you from have a sheath made from leather or kydex to practice drawing from? Or using the sheath from a real blade.

As you acknowledge the lack of a holster is a definite shortcoming in your "training", the obvious question is why don't you get one?

The few i have looked into dont, the only company i have found that do combos are benchmade, that is they sell training versions of some of their knives as a optional accessory with it, dont know if the real blades sheath would work for the training one though. (they may have discontinued that from my short searching to re check that while writing this) Or if the training one gets a sheath.

Its basically just sourcing, the cost and utility and actually finding one, and the fact id want one for a knife i own now or plan on getting as opposed to my generic cold steel one i got and i have no plans on getting that knife. (the cold steel one serves its purpose, with or without a purpose made sheath) Sheaths in particular may run up a bit.

I wouldnt call it a shortcoming, the draw isnt in my training criteria currently, as previously mentioned the type of knife isnt one you can quick draw, and retriving it would be opening a draw, "thats my suitable for combat knife", the generic cooking ones would be retrived from either a draw or a knife block, so not really off my persons. Not having a reliable way to carry it is annoying, and may turn into a shortcoming but it currently isnt. Anyway id be a moron not to take my knife to a potetional house invasion ready to go.

Training it would be much better to say lay in my bed and go "oh no the house is being invaded" open the draw, remove it from its pouch and draw the knife, retrive my torch and go. although i have "played around" with it a little in regards to stabbing etc. Correction tha tmay be better described as my "quick draw", actual training for it would just having the mindframe to deploy the thing before i need it or cant deploy it.

Addendum: the training knives are age gated a decent amount here, and knife sourcing in this country is a pest now days, and "tactical" knives tend to be a primiem, i dont own many so any are somewhat precious to me. Oh, by all means id get a sheath if i need one as well. My clothing choices impacts my ability to carry such a thing anyway and caryring in public is unlawful here, so this is more a home defence context legally speaking.
 

drop bear

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The few i have looked into dont, the only company i have found that do combos are benchmade, that is they sell training versions of some of their knives as a optional accessory with it, dont know if the real blades sheath would work for the training one though. (they may have discontinued that from my short searching to re check that while writing this) Or if the training one gets a sheath.

Its basically just sourcing, the cost and utility and actually finding one, and the fact id want one for a knife i own now or plan on getting as opposed to my generic cold steel one i got and i have no plans on getting that knife. (the cold steel one serves its purpose, with or without a purpose made sheath) Sheaths in particular may run up a bit.

I wouldnt call it a shortcoming, the draw isnt in my training criteria currently, as previously mentioned the type of knife isnt one you can quick draw, and retriving it would be opening a draw, "thats my suitable for combat knife", the generic cooking ones would be retrived from either a draw or a knife block, so not really off my persons. Not having a reliable way to carry it is annoying, and may turn into a shortcoming but it currently isnt. Anyway id be a moron not to take my knife to a potetional house invasion ready to go.

Training it would be much better to say lay in my bed and go "oh no the house is being invaded" open the draw, remove it from its pouch and draw the knife, retrive my torch and go. although i have "played around" with it a little in regards to stabbing etc. Correction tha tmay be better described as my "quick draw", actual training for it would just having the mindframe to deploy the thing before i need it or cant deploy it.

Addendum: the training knives are age gated a decent amount here, and knife sourcing in this country is a pest now days, and "tactical" knives tend to be a primiem, i dont own many so any are somewhat precious to me. Oh, by all means id get a sheath if i need one as well. My clothing choices impacts my ability to carry such a thing anyway and caryring in public is unlawful here, so this is more a home defence context legally speaking.

In that case just buy a mag light.

 
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In that case just buy a mag light.

I did not know they did them. I wonder what other obscure things there are. I tried to get a tomohawk trainer once, and rhe irony is the trainers were Id on sale, yet a actual knife wasnt listed as such. no idea what came from that.
 

Hyoho

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And the next related question: You start training in one or two weapons (which is what most people in this thread seem to advise), you reach a level that you're satisfied with and you move on to studying other weapons, how often do you then practice the first two so you don't loose the skills you've gained in them?
I scrolled down but cant find a post that actually tells us what you practice and who you are. My advice is as a professional in Japan for many years. Weapons art "all differ". At least in Japan they do. You will "never" reach a high level unless you separate them. Picking up this weapon that weapon is just playing with them. It would be like giving rank to a back yard slasher. I would guess from the name you chose you practice Chinese arts. Don't you have a sense of learning etiquette and decorum that goes along with learning weapons?
 
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Flyingknee

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I scrolled down but cant find a post that actually tells us what you practice and who you are. My advice is as a professional in Japan for many years. Weapons art "all differ". At least in Japan they do. You will "never" reach a high level unless you separate them. Picking up this weapon that weapon is just playing with them. It would be like giving rank to a back yard slasher. I would guess from the name you chose you practice Chinese arts. Don't you have a sense of learning etiquette and decorum that goes along with learning weapons?

???
 

drop bear

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I did not know they did them. I wonder what other obscure things there are. I tried to get a tomohawk trainer once, and rhe irony is the trainers were Id on sale, yet a actual knife wasnt listed as such. no idea what came from that.

Cold steel does them for the trench hawk. But it is a hard plastic trainer.
 
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