Is Martial Arts and bodybuilding viewed has more mythic today among people?

[moonhill99]

A buddy of mined said today how Hollywood is different today compared to the 80s and 90s.

Saying well sly stallone said that micheal keaton wearing the batman body armour , ie being an action hero without having to work out, was the start of a sea change of how action heroes.

And this true today’s action movies seem to be action super heroes than Martial Arts or bodybuilding.

The Hollywood actors today like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Jean-Claude Van Damme, Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, Vin Diesel, Bruce Willis so on. Are all but gone in Hollywood with no new young actor today replacing them.

Does this single a culture change that Martial Arts or bodybuilding viewed has more mythic today than compared to the 80s and 90s.

Perhaps some see boxing and BJJ over the older Martial Art today. Just think comic super heroes is more reality base than the Martial Arts or bodybuilding that seems more mythic?

Or does Martial Arts and bodybuilding come across more cheesy today among the people compared to the the 80s and 90s.

And younger people today see Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone or Steven Seagal more cheesy.

 

[Xue Sheng121 40]

I don't think mythic is the proper term, that would be something originating in, resembling, or existing only in traditional myths, legends, or the imagination. And the action stars of the action movies you are talking about existed in reality.

But Hollywood today does seem to be shying away from that type of movie and wanting to put in more emotional content, which may work for some, but I get that in every day life, not going to an action movie to watchthe character deal with complex emotions....

Also as yu eluded to, its a lot of work for those guys to get in shape like they did for those movies, and I am not sure there are many in hollywood willing to put in the work for that thee days.

 

[Kung Fu Wang130 160]

Our previous MA generation were more serious about body building. Do people in our generation care about it?

 

[isshinryuronin19 19]

not going to an action movie to watchthe character deal with complex emotions....

You need to get in touch with your feminine side. Haven't you heard the Y chromosome is disappearing?

 

[skribs129 149]

I think bodybuilding is still a thing. Most of the superheroes are ripped. While this is done with CGI for The Hulk, look at folks like Henry Cavill as Superman or The Witcher, Chris Hemsworth as Thor, or Chris Evans as Captain America. Even RDJ in the first couple of movies was pretty ripped. Tom Holland is in good shape, even if he's not built, he's lean.

Stepping outside of superheroes, you've still got some very big, very built actors that are fairly popular at the moment. The Rock is the biggest example I can think of, but you've also got people in great shape like Tom Cruise.

As far as martial arts movies goes, that's a different story. The problem is Hollywood in general right now. They're falling into the problem a lot of corporations have, where they're trying to min/max their profits and end up shooting themselves in the foot. There's an analogy I heard recently called the Doorman Paradox. A luxury hotel owner notices that they're paying a doorman $30k per year just to hold a door open, when a $5 door stop can do the same job. So they fire the doorman and buy a door stop. Over the next few years, their profits tank much more than $30k.

The same is happening to Hollywood right now. You've essentially got indie films and big-budget blockbusters. You don't have much of anymore the mid-budget films like comedies, B-movies, etc. Martial arts movies fall into this space. Why spend $100M on a decent martial arts movie that might make $200M, when you can spend $1B on a blockbuster that makes $1.2B? It's not as much of a percentage increase, but it's still double the profit. The mid-budget movie may have had 100% profit margin, but only netted $100M. The big-budget may have had 20%, but it netted $200M. So for a company that wants to make the most on each movie, it's the better choice.

The problem is that only doing a few big-budget movies makes it hard to raise the next generation of actors, harder to hit all the genres and niches and audience demographics, and harder to have a volume of product that inspires customers to keep coming back.

 

[Same Trick75 26]

When the action comes on, the old way used body doubles/stuntmen/women anyway, today it’s computer/AI generated

 

[Xue Sheng121 40]

You need to get in touch with your feminine side. Haven't you heard the Y chromosome is disappearing?

No I don’t, and not as long as I’m around…. But after that,,, you’re on your own

 

[O'Malley116 8]

I think bodybuilding is still a thing. Most of the superheroes are ripped. While this is done with CGI for The Hulk, look at folks like Henry Cavill as Superman or The Witcher, Chris Hemsworth as Thor, or Chris Evans as Captain America. Even RDJ in the first couple of movies was pretty ripped. Tom Holland is in good shape, even if he's not built, he's lean.

Stepping outside of superheroes, you've still got some very big, very built actors that are fairly popular at the moment. The Rock is the biggest example I can think of, but you've also got people in great shape like Tom Cruise.

Actually, lots of male blockbuster actors now have physiques that are impossible to achieve without some serious training and, sometimes, "magic juice". I feel like the average male physique has become more extreme over the years:

(same person portraying the same character)

As far as martial arts movies goes, that's a different story. The problem is Hollywood in general right now. They're falling into the problem a lot of corporations have, where they're trying to min/max their profits and end up shooting themselves in the foot. There's an analogy I heard recently called the Doorman Paradox. A luxury hotel owner notices that they're paying a doorman $30k per year just to hold a door open, when a $5 door stop can do the same job. So they fire the doorman and buy a door stop. Over the next few years, their profits tank much more than $30k.

The same is happening to Hollywood right now. You've essentially got indie films and big-budget blockbusters. You don't have much of anymore the mid-budget films like comedies, B-movies, etc. Martial arts movies fall into this space. Why spend $100M on a decent martial arts movie that might make $200M, when you can spend $1B on a blockbuster that makes $1.2B? It's not as much of a percentage increase, but it's still double the profit. The mid-budget movie may have had 100% profit margin, but only netted $100M. The big-budget may have had 20%, but it netted $200M. So for a company that wants to make the most on each movie, it's the better choice.

The problem is that only doing a few big-budget movies makes it hard to raise the next generation of actors, harder to hit all the genres and niches and audience demographics, and harder to have a volume of product that inspires customers to keep coming back.

Another pitfall is that, the more money you put into a single project (one $1M movie vs two $500k movies), the less you can afford the risk of not meeting your sales goal. This means that your project is going to be focus-group-tested to death, with every single element geared towards mass appeal. This means that over time they only do "what sells" and converge towards the same template, eliminating what could have been distinguishing features and leading to those movies looking and feeling the same. The video game industry is plagued by this as well.

 

[moonhill99]

Is it me or is Hollywood shifted from young 20s and 30s athletic built bodybuilders to more bulk 50s and 60s men in lot of action movies?

And Hollywood stop making movies around the actors like they did in the past. I guess it cheaper to have no name Arnold Schwarzenegger than making number movies around the actors.

Take the movie Cleaner 2025 a movie very much like die hard movies but no Bruce Willis just no name actor for movie.

Other movie 2025 The Accountant 2 similar to old action movies but lacks well known actor.

What seems to be in lot of Hollywood movies now making action movies but using random actors than making action movies around the actor.

And lot of these action movies the guy actor looks very wildered like he has been out in sun way too much building houses.

Not the young 20s and 30s athletic built bodybuilders but 50 and 60s.

Well comic book action super heroes seem be picking really young teen age looking at least in spider man.

I guesses too much money after actor been in number action movies so using random no name actor is cheaper.

Well the well known actors age and die off.

Yes even Jason Statham is aging now turning 58. Yes even Keanu Reeves is 61 now.

 

[moonhill99]

Another pitfall is that, the more money you put into a single project (one $1M movie vs two $500k movies), the less you can afford the risk of not meeting your sales goal. This means that your project is going to be focus-group-tested to death, with every single element geared towards mass appeal. This means that over time they only do "what sells" and converge towards the same template, eliminating what could have been distinguishing features and leading to those movies looking and feeling the same. The video game industry is plagued by this as well.

That what I mean young people look at Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal has phoney, no way they can beat up those mad guys. And they shifted to comic superheros. The 80s and 90s was different culture.

So Hollywood chases money to comic superheros where marvels seem to be the thing getting action craze.

 

[Xue Sheng121 40]

That what I mean young people look at Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal has phoney, no way they can beat up those mad guys. And they shifted to comic superheros. The 80s and 90s was different culture.

So Hollywood chases money to comic superheros where marvels seem to be the thing getting action craze.

Movie, kiss of the dragon with Jet Li
There is a big fight scene where Jet Li beats up multiple big guys
The director read the script and said, no one is going to believe that little guy can beat up all those big guys
The shot the scene
After it was over the director said I’m pretty sure Jet Li could beat up all those big guys, as well as the rest of us in the room.

 

[Prince_Alarming67 3]

The irony being that lifting weights and getting 'thicc' and 'swole' has never been more popular among the general populace. Sadly, a lot of the time it's a long learning process requiring lots of false starts because a lot of the programs kids are given programs that do not work as advertised. Fortunately, the kids are generally brighter than they're given credit for.

 

[Gyakuto130 139]

More mythic? I’d say completely the opposite.

When we only had the Kung Fu TV series in the 70s, Eastern fighting arts seemed completely mystical because we had so little information about it. Now we have the internet and we see MMA fighters, effortlessly kicking seven shades of poop out of Tai Chi/Wing Chun ‘masters’, Japanese kiai masters getting their teeth kicked in, numerous instructional videos etc. The mythos surrounding MA has all but gone.

The same can be said of bodybuilding when everyone sensible on youtube is showing that to gain muscle mass all you have to do is train to failure and eat well

 

[moonhill99]

More mythic? I’d say completely the opposite.

When we only had the Kung Fu TV series in the 70s, Eastern fighting arts seemed completely mystical because we had so little information about it. Now we have the internet and we see MMA fighters, effortlessly kicking seven shades of poop out of Tai Chi/Wing Chun ‘masters’, Japanese kiai masters getting their teeth kicked in, numerous instructional videos etc. The mythos surrounding MA has all but gone.

The same can be said of bodybuilding when everyone sensible on youtube is showing that to gain muscle mass all you have to do is train to failure and eat well

What do you mean Wing Chun and Kung Fu getting beaten up? And people today think martial arts don’t work only may be boxing, BJJ, wrestling and Judo because this tested in MMA.

So people today look at martial arts actors has phoney and fake don’t watch it.

 

[Gyakuto130 139]

What do you mean Wing Chun and Kung Fu getting beaten up?

And people today think martial arts don’t work only may be boxing, BJJ, wrestling and Judo because this tested in MMA.

They generally don’t work especially against boxing/MMA

So people today look at martial arts actors has phoney and fake don’t watch it.

I think you’re conflating fiction (‘movies’) with reality. We generally accept that motion pictures are fantasy/fiction, no adult believes the feats of the actors. A character is cut from behind with a sword and they died in seconds; fiction. Somebody shot with a gun to the body and immediately rendered unconscious. Fiction. It’s merely entertainment.

 

[moonhill99]

They generally don’t work especially against boxing/MMA

I think you’re conflating fiction (‘movies’) with reality. We generally accept that motion pictures are fantasy/fiction, no adult believes the feats of the actors. A character is cut from behind with a sword and they died in seconds; fiction. Somebody shot with a gun to the body and immediately rendered unconscious. Fiction. It’s merely entertainment.

What I’m saying before MMA and YouTube the only way to see fight moves was watching 70s, 80s and 90s martial arts movies and at first looked exotic and new.

Now people have access to hundreds of fight moves thanks to MMA and YouTube.

People at first may look at Steven Seagal as some thing new and exotic and now people see MMA and YouTube see fights has more messy and unpredictable.

And people see Steven Seagal as phoney now no way you can do what you can do in the movies thus switched to superheroes as this some thing made up that Batman, superman, spider man so on have some capabilities where see martial arts has no capabilities.

And now with no budget studios now there not going spend money on new martial arts movie with such small market unlike superheroes movies that bring billions dollars for one movie.

 

[moonhill99]

The irony being that lifting weights and getting 'thicc' and 'swole' has never been more popular among the general populace. Sadly, a lot of the time it's a long learning process requiring lots of false starts because a lot of the programs kids are given programs that do not work as advertised. Fortunately, the kids are generally brighter than they're given credit for.

Well martial arts is popular or there would not be all those BJJ, Judo and MMA like it is today.

Just look at UFC and MMA.

The problem is Hollywood in 2000s shifted to superheroes movies the marvel comics.

My guess when they beet the horse to death with superheroes movie the marvel comics people may get tired of seeing it over and over again and what some thing new and fresh and this where may be martial arts movies or Die Hard or Dirty Harry movies with strong martial arts lead may make come back.

 

[Gyakuto130 139]

And people see Steven Seagal as phoney now

He is and always has been a phony friend-of-Putin Whereas as those with tournament experience/wins (Lundgren/Van Damme) have always been given a little more kudos.

no way you can do what you can do in the movies thus switched to superheroes as this some thing made up that Batman, superman, spider man so on have some capabilities where see martial arts has no capabilities.

Batman is just a man, isn’t he? No superpowers.

And now with no budget studios now there not going spend money on new martial arts movie with such small market unlike superheroes movies that bring billions dollars for one movie.

And then you have excellent martial arts action films like Life After Fighting and Black Belt in which you can see the action because there’s next to nothing of this Hollywood fast angle cutting that makes you miss all the action. It the cinematography in hollywood that’s dreadful!

 

[Gyakuto130 139]

My guess when they beet the horse to death with superheroes movie the marvel comics people may get tired of seeing it over and over again and what some thing new and fresh

I thought the same about Rap music but it seems to be staying

and this where may be martial arts movies or Die Hard or Dirty Harry movies with strong martial arts lead may make come back.

If an increasingly infantilised audience keeps going to watch superhero films, Hollywood will keep making them and making millions.

I watched the original Batman film when it first came out and have avoided superhero films ever since…

 

[moonhill99]

He is and always has been a phony friend-of-Putin Whereas as those with tournament experience/wins (Lundgren/Van Damme) have always been given a little more kudos.

He uses wing chun and aikido in the 90s movies.

If he took boxing and wrestling no one would say he is phoney.

But all actors are phoney as no one can beat up 20 people or more.

MMA and youtube shows fights are messy and unpredictable.