How does your style fight?

DaveB

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Hello,

I asked this in the karate forum, but really it's a question for all styles.

Can you describe how your ma style fights (not how it trains)?

In particular I'm interested in the different strategies or game plans advocated/taught/developed by the various components and training methods employed in your art.

Please note, adapting to the opponent is not in its self a strategy, so if that's what you feel your style gives you then give examples of how you adapt to what.

Thanks.
 

Argus

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Are you asking about any given style's conceptual approach to combat, or are you talking about how "the most people tend to apply it in sparring," or are you asking about how any given individual (who may differ greatly from the majority - which, by the way, doesn't make them wrong; in fact, it often makes them exceptional) applies it in sparring, or are you asking about how it is applied in other contexts such as self-defense, either generally, or specifically?

I think you will find as wide a diversity of practitioners in any given style, with different understandings and interpretations of their art, different abilities, different personalities, different levels of experience, a different focus, and very different results, regardless of which context you choose.

As for myself, I can't claim to be that experienced, but I do practice sparring against different styles and applying the principles of my art (Wing Chun). In my opinion, a lot of people get caught up in technique land, or take a "chisao" mentality to a fight, and are ineffective because of it.

Wing Chun is based on two principles, and really, the second is just a means to the end of making good on the first. The first one is centerline theory; that is, to attack and defend on the centerline between you and the opponent, as this is both the most direct route, and the one that protects you - or else leaves you very close to where you need to be to protect yourself.

The second, is the maxim in my signature: "Intercept what comes; pursue what departs; when the hands are freed of obstructions, [they] attack instinctively." What this means, essentially, is that we stay close, and fill any gap that appears. We don't want to allow the opponent to range out, because the principles we practice work best close in where our hands can remain an immediate threat, and we can use the basic structures and hand "techniques" that we practice to best effect. This concept is identical to fencing, and you might aptly describe Wing Chun as "fencing with fists."

I take a very simple approach in sparring. I don't think about anything other than delivering a good attack on the centerline, preferably on a line that covers me from the most immediate threat. But I ensure that I'm always attacking, and that I'm occupying the centerline - and if anything pushes me off from it, I yield and strike with the next hand the moment I detect that the center is open, or going to be open again. I'm not thinking about chisao. I'm not chasing hands or trying to get a "bridge." I'm just doing my part to offend the opponent, follow in, and let whatever "techniques" I need flow naturally from there, if they're needed at all. As far as timing is concerned, I do try to catch my opponent simultaneously in his actions, employing something akin to a "counter punching" method in boxing, as Wing Chun is particularly well suited for that.
 
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Danny T

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Hello,

I asked this in the karate forum, but really it's a question for all styles.

Can you describe how your ma style fights (not how it trains)?

Thanks.
How does my style fight?
Quite honestly depending on the range and lead I fight differently.
However, on a strategic point; protect the center, intercept the movement, strike the core.
 

JowGaWolf

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How does my style fight? The only answer I can think of is to show a demo of one of the forms. I couldn't tell you which one of those techniques would come out in a fight if fighting against a Jow Ga practitioner or in what order.
Other than that there's just not a simple answer that's not going to be a book long. Strategies are based on individual strengths in relation to a fighting system. 5 people can take the same fighting system and have different strategies based on their strengths and weaknesses.
 

drop bear

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Basics,conditioning with a heavy wrestling element.

Coaches highlight reel.
 

crazydiamond

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I am not sure what you are seeking exactly but my martial art aims to fight in very simple efficient and direct attacks. It takes the best from various other arts - striking, kicking, weapons, and grappling - and blends them into fighting style geared for the street.
 

Ruhaani

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Are you asking about any given style's conceptual approach to combat, or are you talking about how "the most people tend to apply it in sparring," or are you asking about how any given individual (who may differ greatly from the majority - which, by the way, doesn't make them wrong; in fact, it often makes them exceptional) applies it in sparring, or are you asking about how it is applied in other contexts such as self-defense, either generally, or specifically?

I think you will find as wide a diversity of practitioners in any given style, with different understandings and interpretations of their art, different abilities, different personalities, different levels of experience, a different focus, and very different results, regardless of which context you choose.

As for myself, I can't claim to be that experienced, but I do practice sparring against different styles and applying the principles of my art (Wing Chun). In my opinion, a lot of people get caught up in technique land, or take a "chisao" mentality to a fight, and are ineffective because of it.

Wing Chun is based on two principles, and really, the second is just a means to the end of making good on the first. The first one is centerline theory; that is, to attack and defend on the centerline between you and the opponent, as this is both the most direct route, and the one that protects you - or else leaves you very close to where you need to be to protect yourself.

The second, is the maxim in my signature: "Intercept what comes; pursue what departs; when the hands are freed of obstructions, [they] attack instinctively." What this means, essentially, is that we stay close, and fill any gap that appears. We don't want to allow the opponent to range out, because the principles we practice work best close in where our hands can remain an immediate threat, and we can use the basic structures and hand "techniques" that we practice to best effect. This concept is identical to fencing, and you might aptly describe Wing Chun as "fencing with fists."

I take a very simple approach in sparring. I don't think about anything other than delivering a good attack on the centerline, preferably on a line that covers me from the most immediate threat. But I ensure that I'm always attacking, and that I'm occupying the centerline - and if anything pushes me off from it, I yield and strike with the next hand the moment I detect that the center is open, or going to be open again. I'm not thinking about chisao. I'm not chasing hands or trying to get a "bridge." I'm just doing my part to offend the opponent, follow in, and let whatever "techniques" I need flow naturally from there, if they're needed at all. As far as timing is concerned, I do try to catch my opponent simultaneously in his actions, employing something akin to a "counter punching" method in boxing, as Wing Chun is particularly well suited for that.
I could learn alot from you good description.

Sent from my GT-I8160 using Tapatalk
 

Langenschwert

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With weapons: hit first, hit fast, hit hard. Don't let the opponent launch an attack if you can help it.

Tourney fighting is reliant on using a few honed techniques and forcing the opponent into situations where you can use them. For example, as a lefty, I like to punish the outside of a right-hander's forearm, but no one just "lets" me do that. So I can use a point forward position to menace them, threatening a thrust to the face. They are often tempted to also use a point forward guard to cross my blade, since no one likes a sword pointed at their face. I thrust very quickly to the face on their inside, forcing a parry to my right. I lift my blade up out of the parry and strike the right forearm or hand.

Alternatively, I force the opponent to attack me as I like to be attacked. Opponent holds sword on his right shoulder, threatening a descending diagonal strike. I assume a point down guard, angled to my right, with the point about as far forward as my left (leading) foot. This exposes my head, making it a juicy target. I then close range, forcing him to strike, since if he does nothing I raise my point and thrust. I deflect his diagonal cut with a rising diagonal cut with my back edge, angled such that our blades do not bypass each other, and strike back down to his arms or head if I'm close enough.

80% of my tourney fighting is just that.

Without weapons: depends on context: modern combatives is very big on cycling and controlling any weapon the opponent might have. The HEMA unarmed is very stand-up grappling based, trying to either throw the opponent or hyperextend something. This is often used with the "mortstosse" aka "death blows". They are of course, not lethal, but are used to soften up an opponent to apply grapples. It's just that the old German manuals liked words like "death blow", "murder strike" (aka "thunderclap strike") and "Wrath Strike". :)
 
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DaveB

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Wow, there are some really good responses, thanks.

Argus, your first thought was correct. I'm looking for your style's conceptual approach to combat. Thanks for the great description of wing chun.

I've come to view ma as frameworks on which particular strategies are hung. Everything else is secondary imo.

Once you have a strategy you simply adapt it to what is going on around you.

I'm sure this is old news to some but much of karate, which is my base, lost their core strategies and operate in a reactive rather than proactive manner as a result.

Drop Bear, you fell into the trap. Your training is the road to your fight, not your fight plan.

Wang, obtain a clinch and...? Hold on until the police come? How would you adapt that to fighting multiple assailants?

Crazydiamond, the question is about how you ensure that you win. Look over the other responses and have a think about the core of what your system encourages.

Langenschwert, great description! Your weapon work in particular sounds fascinating.

Thanks to all, if I've missed you out. If you haven't already would you mind naming the style you are describing?

I've got more questions but I need more time than I have right now.
 

crazydiamond

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DaveB. I study Jeet Kune Do Concepts which is a mixed martial arts style founded by Bruce Lee and then advanced by his student Dan Inosanto who introduced Kali, Grappling, and many other styles into it. The styles and techniques we study are vast. However at the core of Bruce's system was the five ways of attack :



  1. Single direct attack (S.D.A.): This is the simplest form of attack. It is done mainly with your leading hand or leading leg. If you are out of distance you have to step in to reach your target.
  2. Immobilization attack (H.I.A.): It is done by grabbing a member, or head of your opponent. This will make him unable to move that part of his body. Giving you time to strike from a safer position. A feint usually precedes the trapping. The objective is to make your opponent unable to use his weapons against you.
  3. Progressive indirect attack (P.I.A.): This is an attack that is preceded by a feint or by a deceiving movement with the intention to cheat your opponent. The objective is to make him react to your fake creating and opening that you can take advantage of.
  4. Attack by combination (A.B.C.): Is and attack composed of simple attacks. Two or more strikes in a row. Combinations are used to place your opponent in a position where you can land your best blow.
  5. Attack by drawing (A.B.D.): In this way of attack you create an opening that incites your opponent to attack. You are just waiting for him to go for the opening you created. Your objective is to counter attack, taking advantage of the opening created by his attack.
 

lklawson

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Can you describe how your ma style fights (not how it trains)?
I'm too old to take a beating in order to establish male dominance or impress chicks (and I'm married anyway) so I shoot them. If I don't have a gun available, I may stab them or bash 'em with a stick. If that's not an option, I'll probably punch them about the head and body and/or grapple/throw/choke/break-stuff-off.

Isn't that how everyone does it?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

GiYu - Todd

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Full philosophy would take a book.
Basic concepts: control the distance, keep hips low, move offline from the attack and/or redirect the energy, strike hard to key locations or get hold of an appendage and bend it in a way that causes damage or pain.
Of course the preference is to stay out of range and either exit or employ concealed ranged weapon.
 

WaterGal

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Are we talking competitions or real life?

KKW TKD tends to very strongly emphasize kicking, especially in competition. The (sporty) approach tends to be to maintain distance to watch for an opening, and then rush in and kick very fast and either clench or back off again.

Hapkido, on the other hand, focuses a lot on standing grapple, with some striking and, increasingly, some ground game. So the approach is more likely to involve going in for a clench in order to apply a choke, armbar, sweep, etc and put your opponent on the ground, while you preferably stay on your feet.
 

Langenschwert

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Langenschwert, great description! Your weapon work in particular sounds fascinating.

Glad you found it interesting. You can see me pull off the hand snipe a few times in this video of a tournament I fought in:


I used a point down to the left guard a fair amount as well, which I have since switched to the other side more often than not these days.
 

paitingman

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an edit from one of my posts on another thread.
Taekwondo:
Controlling distance: using superior footwork and pressure to make the opponent rest in your preferred distance; whether long, midrange, or close, for as much of the time as possible.

1:1 Timing the Counter: Countering as the opponent attacks. Again using footwork
to maneuver into the correct position to avoid the blow while delivering an attack at the same time.

Pressure (Forward Intent): While avoiding your opponents attack(s), it is important to maintain pressure or forward intent. Rather than being overly passive and running from the blows, you must be always ready to spring back and attack. If your opponent does not feel pressured, they will whole heartedly attack and try to overwhelm you.

Invasive Hands: While your feet mainly take care of defense in the form of footwork, the blocking techniques can be applied as a secondary defense; however, these techniques should be applied when you choose to stand your ground and strike the opponent. In this moment you have decided to root and invade your opponents space. The hand techniques should convey this attitude; blocking not only to take care of an attack, but to get your hand(s) into the opponents bubble and further disrupt or attack them.
 

yak sao

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I'm too old to take a beating in order to establish male dominance or impress chicks (and I'm married anyway) so I shoot them. If I don't have a gun available, I may stab them or bash 'em with a stick. If that's not an option, I'll probably punch them about the head and body and/or grapple/throw/choke/break-stuff-off.

Isn't that how everyone does it?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Mental note....stay on Kirk's good side.
 
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DaveB

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How does my style fight? The only answer I can think of is to show a demo of one of the forms. I couldn't tell you which one of those techniques would come out in a fight if fighting against a Jow Ga practitioner or in what order.
Other than that there's just not a simple answer that's not going to be a book long. Strategies are based on individual strengths in relation to a fighting system. 5 people can take the same fighting system and have different strategies based on their strengths and weaknesses.

Jow ga, thanks for the form video. I enjoy studying them to try and discern the core idea behind them.

While you are correct that the individual does adapt the strategy of the fighting style, in most cases there is a core ideal which is the thing that is adapted.

Can you give some examples of different individual variations of your style and explain what makes them the same style?
 

Paul_D

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adapting to the opponent is not in its self a strategy,

Is it not? Ins't the whole point of Aikido to blend with your attacker, isn't the whole pint of Ju-jitsu to yield instead of trying to meet force with force?
 

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