Home Made Warriors and Online Black Belts

TravisL

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For me learning online is great, i don't learn as well in a big class environment, i find i have better focus when i'm practicing alone or working 1 on 1. Also because of the instructional videos posted, i can watch them over and over and over and practice as much as i want without having to wait until my next 'class' to watch my instructor perform the moves again. And if i have any questions or concerns about a certain technique, i set up a time to meet with my instructor in the digital dojang where he reviews my progress and can fix any problems or answer any questions i may have via video chat. But as far as the conference goes, it was phenomenal, you really cant beat live in person instruction and i learned A lot from many different instructors, Masters and other students as well. But in short, i love online training because that is the closest i will get to 1 on 1 instruction and i believe that if you have enough discipline and dedication then anything is possible.
 

Instructor

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What area's were the hardest for you Travis. Where did it really fall short? What could we do better?
 

Daniel Sullivan

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Yes Instructor is correct, with the exception of a few months of kendo classes i had no prior martial arts training.

As a hapkidoist and a kendo instructor, I will say that I can see hapkido, taekwondo, or karate translating better in a video format than a sword art. Kendo and fencing tend to be more frustrating to new students than HKD and TKD are mainly because of the much greater amount of fine control involved right away.

The subtleties of sword work do not translate well to video unless the person watching already knows what they're doing, at which point the video tends to be more reference than instruction.

I'm not stumping for online or video training, but obvious money grabs not withstanding, I think that it is important to not dismiss it out of hand just because it isn't in the format to which we're accustomed. Not everyone learns the same. I have said this before: for a very visual learner, particularly one who does not do well in a traditional class setting, online/DVD lessons may actually be productive. If you don't learn in that way, it's hard to see it.
 

clfsean

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Wow... ok. I can't really say much about this without coming off as condescending so I'm going to leave it with... ok.
 

TravisL

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the area that was hardest for me was simply finding different body types to do the techniques on, as i learned when i attended the conference. i spend most of my practice doing the techniques on someone who is smaller then me in size and when i got to the conference and was able to practice these techniques on bigger physiques (much bigger) i learned some variations of techniques didnt work as well. it was very much an eye opener for me. as far as what could be done better, really in my opinion not a whole lot. i love the program the way it is, learning online takes alot of practice and dedication, but by watching the videos enough its coming along well for me.
 

Instructor

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the area that was hardest for me was simply finding different body types to do the techniques on, as i learned when i attended the conference. i spend most of my practice doing the techniques on someone who is smaller then me in size and when i got to the conference and was able to practice these techniques on bigger physiques (much bigger) i learned some variations of techniques didnt work as well. it was very much an eye opener for me. as far as what could be done better, really in my opinion not a whole lot. i love the program the way it is, learning online takes alot of practice and dedication, but by watching the videos enough its coming along well for me.

This really highlights some of the difficulties online student's face. The onus is on the student to find people to practice with and spar etc. The single greatest factor I've had in losing promising dlp students is finding an uke.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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the area that was hardest for me was simply finding different body types to do the techniques on, as i learned when i attended the conference.
And there is the Achilles heal of online/DVD training: partners. It is one area that I have to side with the naysayers and the one area that I have yet to see addressed in a way that would overcome my objection.

The issue goes beyond just finding suitable partners and crosses into safety issues.
 

Instructor

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And there is the Achilles heal of online/DVD training: partners. It is one area that I have to side with the naysayers and the one area that I have yet to see addressed in a way that would overcome my objection.

The issue goes beyond just finding suitable partners and crosses into safety issues.

It IS a serious concern. But not insurmountable for one willing to rise to the challenge.
 

Fritz

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I think it depends on what is defined when you say martial arts or a martial artist.

Is it a question of just techniques? If so these can be learned online and perhaps not even half bad if you practice with an enthusiastic friend.

You can also get the kuden or coaching notes/advice that will help you along the way.

But that is where it ends IMHO.

The intangible essence, the transference of tradition, and the benefits that come from that cant be obtained online or by yourself, it requires submitting to a tradition.

There are just some things in the arts that you have to FEEL and EXPERIENCE by a teacher with decades in the art to understand.

But is that even needed for the martial arts?

Could be argued either way.

Also, as long as there is no FRAUD, that is fine also. Being a home-brew warrior in internet black belt and passing yourself off as something else isnt cool.
I guess lets see where we all are 100 years from now in the martial arts and how they are taught and transmitted.
 

jks9199

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For me learning online is great, i don't learn as well in a big class environment, i find i have better focus when i'm practicing alone or working 1 on 1. Also because of the instructional videos posted, i can watch them over and over and over and practice as much as i want without having to wait until my next 'class' to watch my instructor perform the moves again. And if i have any questions or concerns about a certain technique, i set up a time to meet with my instructor in the digital dojang where he reviews my progress and can fix any problems or answer any questions i may have via video chat. But as far as the conference goes, it was phenomenal, you really cant beat live in person instruction and i learned A lot from many different instructors, Masters and other students as well. But in short, i love online training because that is the closest i will get to 1 on 1 instruction and i believe that if you have enough discipline and dedication then anything is possible.

You're practicing hapkido, right? Do you have a training partner that you work with, or is it really just you and the monitor?
 

Daniel Sullivan

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It IS a serious concern. But not insurmountable for one willing to rise to the challenge.
You could certainly overcome this by having a study group with people qualified to both monitor the safe execution of techniques and perhaps someone on hand to monitor safety in general, but at least one person in the group should be experienced enough to actually serve in this capacity, which in my estimation would require a level of in person training on their part.
 

TaiChiTJ

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Also because of the instructional videos posted, i can watch them over and over and over and practice as much as i want without having to wait until my next 'class' to watch my instructor perform the moves again. But as far as the conference goes, it was phenomenal, you really cant beat live in person instruction and i learned A lot from many different instructors, Masters and other students as well.

The one positive about online learning, you can review solo physical movements on your timetable.
The obvious significant drawback: the lack of live interaction with a real person.
 

ballen0351

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TravisL Im not to far from Elkton. You ever need a partner to train or work on something maybe we can set something up
 

yagyukakita

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Personally I don't think the biggest benefits of the martial arts are the physical ones. I surely value my own skills and abilities in the physical sense but the true value of the arts is what goes beyond that. So I would argue that even if you could learn how to punch and kick from video, book or picture, witch I think most of us at some time or another have in some small way, you don't get the other aspects of training. You need that family like structure to make it work. you need Instructors and friends to support and encourage you. you also need them to tell you when you are going down a bad path. The five tenants need to be a part of training for it to be martial arts. Courtesy, Integrity Perseverance Self control and Indomitable spirit. Martial arts isn't about hitting things its about becoming a better person than you are right now.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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The five tenants need to be a part of training for it to be martial arts. Courtesy, Integrity Perseverance Self control and Indomitable spirit. Martial arts isn't about hitting things its about becoming a better person than you are right now.

These are the tenets (not tenants, not unless they pay rent :D ) of Taekwondo (ITF/Chang Hon specifically) which are based in Confusionism, not universal tenets of martial arts. The virtues of kendo, which are an extension of the values of the Samurai, are not identical, and there are more of them. The term, "martial arts" existed long before Asian arts were imported to the west. Different cultures place their own cultural values into training (the virtues of Chivalry, for example). One learns martial arts in the US military and virtues/tenets of the US are stressed in that setting.

I'm not criticizing your sentiment, but I do think that it is important to avoid making tenets and norms of one art or small group of arts a universal requirement for all others.
 

lklawson

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These are the tenets (not tenants, not unless they pay rent :D ) of Taekwondo (ITF/Chang Hon specifically) which are based in Confusionism, not universal tenets of martial arts. The virtues of kendo, which are an extension of the values of the Samurai, are not identical, and there are more of them. The term, "martial arts" existed long before Asian arts were imported to the west. Different cultures place their own cultural values into training (the virtues of Chivalry, for example). One learns martial arts in the US military and virtues/tenets of the US are stressed in that setting.
Ya beat me to the punch here.

I'm not criticizing your sentiment, but I do think that it is important to avoid making tenets and norms of one art or small group of arts a universal requirement for all others.
The danger is to the person making the restrictive generalization, I think. He ends up with an inaccurate view full of wrong assumptions about a vast pantheon of martial arts with wildly differing core beliefs. I'm aware of some martial arts which emphasize "winning" over all else. I'm not talking MMA here, I'm talking the use of every dirty trick imaginable to kill an adversary, from psychological warfare through poisoning him the night before the fight. There are some martial arts that include head hunting and others that include cannibalism.

The core tenets of a martial art tend to reflect the what the founders of the art believed the core values of society should be. ...in the culture they were developed in. ...at the time of their development. ...if the founder even believed that a martial art should reflect, instruct, or enhance social values. :)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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