Receiving Black Belt in multiple arts

[futabachan]

At the risk of flogging a very old thread, what exactly is meant by "black belt level?" In Judo and Ju-Jutsu, it takes 8-10 years to get to dan rank, which represents a genuinely high level of achievement. By contrast, I passed shodan in iaido after 18 months (it's been done in as little as 6), and it's considered to be a beginning rank; you haven't really gotten very far until about yondan or so.

And which arts are you talking about? I'm studying three very closely allied arts, and will have three dan-level tests later in the year, but if I were to take up judo, for example, my knowledge of the naginata or the sword would have little value in preparing me to study that art. Some arts are natural combinations: kendo and iaido, karate and ryukyu kobudo, and so forth, but others just don't transfer (witness the fanciful ideas that many long-time karate practitioners have about swords). And going from one hard striking art to another, or one grappling art to another, would be a much faster process than taking up an art that is a complete departure.

So I'm not sure that there's a meaningful answer that can be given in the format that the poll is asking. There are just too many variables.

 

[TheArtofDave]

Just to throw my 2 cents worth in. I enjoyed reading all the different view points and after I get my EPA, and go out into the work world of Heating and Air I'll have a lot to think about when I cross train into the style in IsshinRyu even though I may have to travel to do it.

I'm going to get back into Korean Martial arts. It'll take me 2 to 3 years to get to first degree black belt. But I want to devote myself to getting a traditional 9th degree black belt.

Also somebody mentioned something about trying to master that style, or various styles. You are not going to master your style. Even if you train for an hour a day, or 2 hours or more on different drills so you can understand the concepts and reasons why you are practicing the techniques.

If the style was so easy to master than it would not be a life long journey. So while you may master the understanding of the concepts and techniques you'll never master the style. You'll just very skilled, and dedicated. That also brings a lot of responsibility, humiliation, and the focus to respect that every style and journey is different.

I agree that cross training will make you a more well rounded fighter, and it will also make you more knowledgeable because knowledge is one thing that comes free. You can always learn more.

 

[chinto]

what i train in averages about 6 to 7 years and often 8 to shodan ho. So I do not see making shodan in more then one art in less then say ohh 10 to 12 or more.

 

[d1jinx]

here's my question.... you have multiple BB in multiple arts... at which point can you determine if what you are doing is one, the other or some combination you have created and are no longer a true this or that Martial artist?

Have you now became a watered down version of one or the other?

 

[ap Oweyn]

here's my question.... you have multiple BB in multiple arts... at which point can you determine if what you are doing is one, the other or some combination you have created and are no longer a true this or that Martial artist?

Have you now became a watered down version of one or the other?

How would it be watered down? Just by being synthesized with other material? It seems to me that if that's how you felt about the melding of multiple styles, you'd have taken that into account before attaining rank in multiple styles. Most people I know who take on multiple styles don't view the resulting practice as "watered down" or worry about whether they're bleeding one into the other.


Stuart

 

[Milt G.]

Hello...

Unless the arts are VERY similar, (such as variations of the same basic art) previous experience will only shorten the time to black belt in a different art by about 25-30% at best. This only in my opinion, of course.

Disclaimer... Any similarity between "my" opinion, and a REAL opinion, is purly coincidential.

The black belt level should NEVER be rushed no matter the circumstances. To do so is to cheat your art, and yourself. And as we all were taught... "Cheaters never prosper"...

Thank you,
Milt G.

 

[ap Oweyn]

So do people actually set out to earn multiple black belts? I could see it happening as a consequence of wanting to expand a skill set and simply choosing systems that use a belt system. But I earned my first (and only) black belt in 1994. And I haven't participated in a belt system since.

Before that, though, I did spend 5 years in taekwondo. Leaving the style (for better or worse) just prior to black belt. I do sometimes (though not lately) think about going back and "finishing that off." But only because I feel like I was young and shouldn't have left taekwondo out of frustration the way I did. I don't regret taking up FMA instead. Far from it. But I know my motivation at the time wasn't what I would have liked.


Stuart

 

[bluekey88]

While I don't have bb's in multiple arts (just one), I am pursuing that. I'm ranked in a number of different arts...due to moving around a lot and having to take what was available and what I could afford at the time.

Now, I'm 2nd dan tkd and 6th kyu in BBT...my plans are (as always) to train as much as I can for as long as i can. should that contoinue long enough, I'll eventually have BB rank in two systems.

As to cross-training watering down things, I've found that if I keep a humble and flexible mindset, the expereince of cross-training has done nothing but enhance my skills in all the arts I study. Good training leads to good martial arts.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Kwan Jang]

I have been training off and on (far more on) in JJ since 1971, I have been in TKD since 1977, the FMA's since 1979 and Muay Thai since 1980 (these three continuously). Over the years, I have picked up different grades, though collecting ranks were not my priority. I have even (respectfully) turned down rank several times. It has just been a bi-product of my ongoing desire to learn and grow. Besides, mastery IMO is about mastery of one's self. If I (or anyone else for that matter) am at a certain level, that's simply the level I am at. I can (and have) connect the dots pretty easily and learn just about any curriculum, It's not "watering down", it's about constantly challenging yourself and growing.

 

[Draven]

Honestly I think it all depends on the individual & the art the person is learning someone might be able to do it in a few years going from say Shotokan to TSD but going Shotokan to Judo or Jujitsu not so much.

 

[kingkong89]

It would depend on the other style and that schools ranking system say style a is similar to style b and you already have a bb in a then you go to style b it might not take you very long it would all be in the instructors descretion

 

[kbarrett]

Personally I think having black belt in one style should be good enough, how ever if one get a black belt in a whole different art than their base art then that's ok. Basiclly if you have a balck belt in a karate style then there' nothing wrong with getting a black belt in a style like jujutsu.

Ken

 

[fangjian]

Here is a question that I have been pondering. Let say someone has a black belt in style A and they decide to study Martial Art B which is similar (kata's /forms are different) Would it take someone one who already has a black belt the same amount of time to receive a black belt in Style B. As it would someone just starting out in the Martial arts. I believe someone could study a second art and it could take half or less the time. Now I know there are different variables to each art. The amount of training time is the most deciding factor. But your average martial artist would trains 2-3 days in a dojo and does maybe sometime at home.

It would be like achieving a bachelor's degree in Physics. And then begin studying Chemistry. The Physics background WILL help you, if you let it. Unless you are already "set in your ways", than it could slow your progress in Chemistry.

 

[Restita D.]

It would be like achieving a bachelor's degree in Physics. And then begin studying Chemistry. The Physics background WILL help you, if you let it. Unless you are already "set in your ways", than it could slow your progress in Chemistry.

Well put, I agree! I did one art for 20 years, but felt lacking in the "realistic self defense" mentality, so sought out Kajukenbo. I still loved my Karate, but felt I needed more of a street mentality for self defense. The Karate helped me, and I realized that the arts weren't all that radically different.... A side kick is a side kick, no matter what, right!? The things that differ between any art are integral concepts of each art, it's focuses (kicking, grappling, etc etc), and how its taught.

Attaining black belts in multiple arts should be a natural progression if a student wishes to cross train.... It shouldn't be approached as a belt-collecting endeavor or status raiser or bragging rights. I encourage my students to cross train, because I don't know everything. But I caution students to not juggle arts.... Get good at one before seeking other arts to complement (not compete with) your art.

-Restita

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

I voted most likely 2-3 years. IMO, it mostly depends if the discipline of the curriculum is very similar or very different from your core discipline. For example if you take Shotokan Karate and recieved your black belt and then train in Jujutsu or kobudo your progress to black belt will still take 4 or 5 years. However if you trained in jujutsu and or kobudo as a bonus and Shotokan Karate has been your core discipline, then your progress can be 2-3 years or less. Again, it all depends on training progress.

 

[Yondanchris]

I've trained in a variety of different arts. For the most part I've found that most instructors tend to encourage a cross training student to wear the rank that they've previously earned in another art. They are just required to stay at that rank until they have learned all of the information (basics, forms, self defense techniques, drills and principles) and skill required to be promoted. Depending on the similarities between the two arts this could be anywhere from several years to mere months. I've never seen an instructor fill out a certificate for equal rank.

I've met two instructors that have required the student to go back to white belt and start over no matter what. I tend to shy away from this type of instructor because it seems a little bit fishy. I want my journey to last as long as possible. It is a life long journey for me, no matter what so I really don't care about taking the extra time. It seems to me that instructors who force someone to go back to white belt is mostly looking after their own interests and not the interests of the student. Money... They want to be able to charge the testing fees.

Instructors have to worry about their student's egos. The ego has no real place in the martial arts, it is because of ego that we have so many sokes running around and so much political dissent in the arts. It is a shame, but we do have to worry about it. When someone has earned a certain rank, no matter the art, they are proud of it. To tell them that they need to wear a white belt again is basically telling them that all of their past training was a waste of time and they aren't going to take it very well. Allow the student the chance to be humble and remove their own belt from their waist and accept that they are ignorant of your art. To force someone to be humble is to humiliate them. It is never the instructors place to do that. As an instructor you wish to encourage humility and to encourage a person to realize their potential. Not to say that the work that they've done is worthless.

When I began my training in EPAK I was a 3rd Dan in SKK. I chose to take the "long" route and start at white belt because I knew that my previous training was bunk. Now that I am an Orange belt I take more stock in my EPAK rank than my SKK rank. Although now with the creation of "Christian Kempo" I am feeling more confident of the BB around my waist.

Just a bit of my journey,

Chris

 

[sfs982000]

Attaining black belts in multiple arts should be a natural progression if a student wishes to cross train.... It shouldn't be approached as a belt-collecting endeavor or status raiser or bragging rights. I encourage my students to cross train, because I don't know everything. But I caution students to not juggle arts.... Get good at one before seeking other arts to complement (not compete with) your art.

-Restita

Very well put and very humble on your part.