Has this ever happend to you?
- Thread starter chinto01
- Start date
Rob I have found that to be true alot of 30 years of training and I explain to the student that one cannot be the best if he is unwilling to put the proper time in for a technique. Then I explain that I myself go over every movement atleast twice a week and then we usally laugh and go back to training.
Terry
Terry
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I haven't had that experience, but probably because I dont teach.
this is the sad thing about our modern, short attention-span society. Everything is supposed to be fun and entertaining. Martial arts training is not always that way. It can be tedious. There is a LOT of repetition. Knowing something is not the same as KNOWING something.
I expect if I were teaching, I would encounter this a lot. I am not good at being creative to make things "fun" for others. I believe in repetition, repetition, and then some more repetition.
Variety is important in training, but I would have no idea how to make it a game, or fun, or entertaining, if you aren't able to find it fun for what it is...
this is the sad thing about our modern, short attention-span society. Everything is supposed to be fun and entertaining. Martial arts training is not always that way. It can be tedious. There is a LOT of repetition. Knowing something is not the same as KNOWING something.
I expect if I were teaching, I would encounter this a lot. I am not good at being creative to make things "fun" for others. I believe in repetition, repetition, and then some more repetition.
Variety is important in training, but I would have no idea how to make it a game, or fun, or entertaining, if you aren't able to find it fun for what it is...
I respond here only because I stand at the opposite end of the question. I recognize my part in our short attention span theatre society and I
Hey, look! A chicken!
Anyway, I practice my first two katas at least 20 times a week and, frankly, some days it's utter boredom to do so; however, I can look at it objectively, knowing about muscle memory, and get my head back around my practice after a bit. I've been doing these katas and the basic techniques for a couple months now and, yes, I wanna learn a Naginata form now. I don't want to wait. I don't even care that it's not a weapon from my chosen style.
As a student, I have accepted teaching at my teacher's pace. It's hard to overcome the processes society has instilled in me; but, it's a conscious choice that will only be maintained by determination.
Hey, look! A chicken!
Anyway, I practice my first two katas at least 20 times a week and, frankly, some days it's utter boredom to do so; however, I can look at it objectively, knowing about muscle memory, and get my head back around my practice after a bit. I've been doing these katas and the basic techniques for a couple months now and, yes, I wanna learn a Naginata form now. I don't want to wait. I don't even care that it's not a weapon from my chosen style.
As a student, I have accepted teaching at my teacher's pace. It's hard to overcome the processes society has instilled in me; but, it's a conscious choice that will only be maintained by determination.
OP
OP
chinto01
Black Belt
Last evening was one of the most stressful in the dojo I have had in a long time. I had a 13 yr old blue belt tell me that he was bored and was not learning anything. I asked him why he feels this way and he says that we do the same thing all of the time with the drills we are doing. I am working with the class on a jodan kumite set that was taught to me by my Sensei and I find it very valuable to their training. We spend 15 minutes a class on this repeating the same 10 techniques every class. I introduced it in October and my goal it to move on from this next month to the chudan set. When I explained to him that repitition is how we learn and maintain things he disagreed and continued to critisize my cirriculum saying it was once again boring and I was not challenging him enough. He also informed me that I was not making him tough enough for what would happen on the street. I was not worried at 13 about being tough. I was worried about doing my paper route. What is going on these days?
in the spirit of bushido!
Rob
in the spirit of bushido!
Rob
AdrenalineJunky
Black Belt
Lol @ chicken!
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
chinto01 said:
well, the kid is thirteen. I think that is a big part of the problem. He is clearly not mature enough to understand what he is doing. Some kids are mature enough at an earlier age than others. I would say this one is not. I am not sure what advice to give you, but look at the source of the criticism before you give it much merit.
Actually yes. A few of our students expressed 'getting bored with the tecs..sooooo.. we kicked it up.. they were going through the 'motions' of Kenpo.. could perform the tecs for their level.. So they were instructed to actually Hit harder.. kick harder, resist (as the attacker).. now how did the tecs work? Gee.. Advanced Purple belts were finding out.. how little they actually understood the basic tecs.. so this brought us to why it was not really working for them.. stances not as good as they thought... proper body mechanics not being employed, even their breathing was not 'correct'. Instructors can spoon feed the student til their minds are so overly filled with information, but until the student actually begins ingesting what has been voiced over and over, and they actually feel what they're dong.. the learning process may become tedious.
Now our students are not Bored with same ole same ole... the 'tweaking' process has them actually wanting for more
~Tess
Now our students are not Bored with same ole same ole... the 'tweaking' process has them actually wanting for more
~Tess
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Another thought: It is not your role as a teacher to "make him tough enough". Your role is to teach him the material and help him to understand it and develop skill. How tough he wants to become is up to him. Again, he clearly is too immature to understand this.
His fixation on his toughness is another indicator of his immaturity. I would suggest you use as much patience as you have to try to help him understand better, and develop a better attitude toward his training. But, if he needs to leave, let him leave and don't worry about it. When/if he becomes more mature, he may return, or he may not. In the meantime, if you are trying to teach him a legitimate and solid martial art with a high quality, sounds to me like he is not ready for it.
His fixation on his toughness is another indicator of his immaturity. I would suggest you use as much patience as you have to try to help him understand better, and develop a better attitude toward his training. But, if he needs to leave, let him leave and don't worry about it. When/if he becomes more mature, he may return, or he may not. In the meantime, if you are trying to teach him a legitimate and solid martial art with a high quality, sounds to me like he is not ready for it.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
KenpoTess said:
Yup, once they bite, they gotta chew, and digest!
chinto01 said:
Yup, I've had this happen many times. Don't let it get to you though Rob. Taking into consideration the age of the child, getting bored is natural. Let me ask you this: When he is doing the material that you are teaching him, how is he doing it? Does he have it perfect or are there things that can be tweaked to make it better? If there are things to be tweaked, have him run through the material and every time a mistake is made, point it out to him. You may also want to work on this every other class, rather than every class.
As for the second part of your question: Did it hurt my feelings? Not at all. 9 times out of 10, I was always able to find something that could be improved upon.
Mike
Don't take it personally. If you're following a well-established program that has proven itself over the years, and if your chief instructor has faith in your abilities as an instructor, then just stick with what you do and trust the program.
Most of the time, I would wager that the "bored" students are kids that haven't developed a good sense of discipline just yet. I would simply continue to teach the class, possibly handing out calisthenic excercises, if the student became mildly disruptive. If the student became a major disruption, it would be time to have a blunt conversation with the child, and possibly his / her parents, perhaps have that child take a leave of absence, have him / her go to a different class, or failing that, simply tear up his contract.
I've had this happen, when a rather mouthy kid flat out told me "your instruction really sucks, and isn't any fun at all. I'd rather be in Sensei (insert name)'s class! At least she makes it more fun."
I'm only human, and of course there were some angry words just ready to come out. I simply told him to leave the floor, and not come back unless he was going to be serious about training. The parents were supportive, and apologetic. As soon as their boy had spouted off his words, the father turned as pale as a new white gi. They made the boy apologize to me the next time he came to my class and promise that he would behave. I treated him as if nothing had happened, not holding a grudge. He still had a difficult time in my class, since I could see his attention slipping away at times.
In the end, I had another conversation with his parents, and we all agreed that he would be better suited by attending one of the other instructor's classes instead.
I didn't mind this at all, since he was a student in my intermediate class once he progressed up the ranks. By the time he became a 7th kyu, he wasn't nearly the same mouthy kid that he was earlier, and his fundamentals solidified. I'm glad that he didn't quit, since he's an example of how even the most patience-trying people can turn into a gem.
Could I have done more on my part to help him along? Maybe so. I know darn well that there's always room for improvement from an instructor's perspective. I'm not the best instructor when it comes to teaching troubled kids, and this is something that I'll have to continue to work on throughout the years.
At the same time, though, I also recognize that there are some people that are better suited by a different type of instructor, especially when they are first starting out. Even though I could have given that child a lot more individual instruction, and perhaps helped him more at the time, it would not have been fair to the other people in the class. At least this way, by letting the other instructor have him, everyone seems to have turned out for the better (He's up for his 3rd kyu brown belt test soon).
Most of the time, I would wager that the "bored" students are kids that haven't developed a good sense of discipline just yet. I would simply continue to teach the class, possibly handing out calisthenic excercises, if the student became mildly disruptive. If the student became a major disruption, it would be time to have a blunt conversation with the child, and possibly his / her parents, perhaps have that child take a leave of absence, have him / her go to a different class, or failing that, simply tear up his contract.
I've had this happen, when a rather mouthy kid flat out told me "your instruction really sucks, and isn't any fun at all. I'd rather be in Sensei (insert name)'s class! At least she makes it more fun."
I'm only human, and of course there were some angry words just ready to come out. I simply told him to leave the floor, and not come back unless he was going to be serious about training. The parents were supportive, and apologetic. As soon as their boy had spouted off his words, the father turned as pale as a new white gi. They made the boy apologize to me the next time he came to my class and promise that he would behave. I treated him as if nothing had happened, not holding a grudge. He still had a difficult time in my class, since I could see his attention slipping away at times.
In the end, I had another conversation with his parents, and we all agreed that he would be better suited by attending one of the other instructor's classes instead.
I didn't mind this at all, since he was a student in my intermediate class once he progressed up the ranks. By the time he became a 7th kyu, he wasn't nearly the same mouthy kid that he was earlier, and his fundamentals solidified. I'm glad that he didn't quit, since he's an example of how even the most patience-trying people can turn into a gem.
Could I have done more on my part to help him along? Maybe so. I know darn well that there's always room for improvement from an instructor's perspective. I'm not the best instructor when it comes to teaching troubled kids, and this is something that I'll have to continue to work on throughout the years.
At the same time, though, I also recognize that there are some people that are better suited by a different type of instructor, especially when they are first starting out. Even though I could have given that child a lot more individual instruction, and perhaps helped him more at the time, it would not have been fair to the other people in the class. At least this way, by letting the other instructor have him, everyone seems to have turned out for the better (He's up for his 3rd kyu brown belt test soon).
I am not an instructor but I don't see that in class. However, I know everyone feels burned out every so often. It has nothing to do with the love for the art and so forth. However, I feel it is part of the mental discipline. To add to what Tess was saying, learning is a solo personal thing. The instructor can only show you things. It is up to the student to learn. So in essence, even though we train with a partner under the guidance of an instructor, we are still learning ALONE! That is why I think it really where that mental discipline kicks in.
Of course I have no advice or suggestions as I don't think that there is much you can do to help him learn. What I think would happen if you changed things up, it would draw his attention for alittle while, but it wouldn't be long he would be bored again, because it is something he must deal with himself.
Of course I have no advice or suggestions as I don't think that there is much you can do to help him learn. What I think would happen if you changed things up, it would draw his attention for alittle while, but it wouldn't be long he would be bored again, because it is something he must deal with himself.
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
13 years old? MUAHAHAHAHAHA! That's the worst age in the universe!
I don't usually hear them tell me they're bored, but I do hear "I know it already," or "We're finished practicing that technique." I respond in a couple of ways:
1. "Yeah? Let me see it." At that point they usually demonstrate something horribly, or they've forgotten the technique altogether. And that takes care of that problem.
2. If it's an advanced kids class, I take a sterner approach. "I still practice my reverse punch every single day, and it's still getting better. I don't ever want to hear anyone in this class tell me they know it already."
On the other hand, if they really do execute the technique well, then maybe it's time for a change of pace. Hey, they're kids, and it doesn't hurt to change it up and have some fun.
I don't usually hear them tell me they're bored, but I do hear "I know it already," or "We're finished practicing that technique." I respond in a couple of ways:
1. "Yeah? Let me see it." At that point they usually demonstrate something horribly, or they've forgotten the technique altogether. And that takes care of that problem.
2. If it's an advanced kids class, I take a sterner approach. "I still practice my reverse punch every single day, and it's still getting better. I don't ever want to hear anyone in this class tell me they know it already."
On the other hand, if they really do execute the technique well, then maybe it's time for a change of pace. Hey, they're kids, and it doesn't hurt to change it up and have some fun.
OP
OP
chinto01
Black Belt
Thank you all for your responses. I had a chat with the students father last evening. Come to find out that this student has been running his mouth off at school about his abilities and someone there has called his bluff. He obviously nervous now and doubting his ability.
in the spirit of bushido!
Rob
in the spirit of bushido!
Rob
chinto01 said:
Rob,
It comes down to your judgement call. If you honestly think that he will listen to you, now that you've spoken with his father, then by all means, give him another chance. However, if this isn't the case, then there may come a time where you would have to sever ties with the kid, whether it be temporarily (such as in the situation that I encountered above), or permanently.
If you're not the owner of the dojo, consult with the chief instructor of your school. It doesn't hurt to ask, even if you get a gruff reply of "use your own judgement."
