The exchange of money.

[chinto01]

Hello all. Been on vacation so this is my first post in a while. My friend and I were talking and I feel it is time to possibly start spreading my wings a little bit. One thought I had and people may laugh was to possibly teach for free. This of course would be dependent on someone providing some space like a garage. What are peoples thoughts on teaching for free. My friend is opposed to it saying people would not take it seriously because there is no cash involved. On the other hand if I teach for free I can pick and choose students a little more. Any thoughts?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[MJS]

Hello all. Been on vacation so this is my first post in a while. My friend and I were talking and I feel it is time to possibly start spreading my wings a little bit. One thought I had and people may laugh was to possibly teach for free. This of course would be dependent on someone providing some space like a garage. What are peoples thoughts on teaching for free. My friend is opposed to it saying people would not take it seriously because there is no cash involved. On the other hand if I teach for free I can pick and choose students a little more. Any thoughts?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

Money is not a guarentee that the student will always take things serious. Of course, one would think that if someone was paying for something, they would take it serious.

How many people are you offering this training to? Will it be the general public or people whom you know well or a current student? When I get together with one of my workout partners, although he does the majority of the teaching, there is no money exchanged, and it actually turns into a learning experience for both of us, considering I offer feedback/ideas from my training as well. Another example would be my Arnis instructor. I pay him monthly for lessons. There are also times when we'll get together on a Sunday for a few hours and workout. He does not charge me for any of this.

All that being said...I say go for it! Some of the best training sessions I've had, have been those garage workouts.

Mike

 

[morph4me]

Money is not a guarentee that the student will always take things serious. Of course, one would think that if someone was paying for something, they would take it serious.

How many people are you offering this training to? Will it be the general public or people whom you know well or a current student? When I get together with one of my workout partners, although he does the majority of the teaching, there is no money exchanged, and it actually turns into a learning experience for both of us, considering I offer feedback/ideas from my training as well. Another example would be my Arnis instructor. I pay him monthly for lessons. There are also times when we'll get together on a Sunday for a few hours and workout. He does not charge me for any of this.

All that being said...I say go for it! Some of the best training sessions I've had, have been those garage workouts.

Mike

I agree, you have nothing to lose. If I could find a place with mat space that someone was willing to let me use, I'd be willing to teach for free as well. One caveat, the "You get what you pay for" mentality of some people may have people thinking if you aren't charging something, what your teaching isn't worth anything, and you may end up losing people when you want to rent a place and have to start charging to meet your expenses. Good Luck

 

[michaeledward]

Hello all. Been on vacation so this is my first post in a while. My friend and I were talking and I feel it is time to possibly start spreading my wings a little bit. One thought I had and people may laugh was to possibly teach for free. This of course would be dependent on someone providing some space like a garage. What are peoples thoughts on teaching for free. My friend is opposed to it saying people would not take it seriously because there is no cash involved. On the other hand if I teach for free I can pick and choose students a little more. Any thoughts?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

People value what they pay for.

If you don't want to have money change hands, there should be something else of value that the student needs to exchange with the teacher, or the teaching will be view has having no value to the student.

If you want to 'pick and choose' your students, don't bother teaching. It is only after teaching the good, the bad, and the ugly students, and proving worth and value to the broad base of students that teachers earn the right to hold a 'Master Class'. You don't get to start there.

Andres Segovia could pick and choose his students, because he was the GrandMaster of Classical Guitar. I am a highly qualified classical guitarist. I do not get to pick and choose my students. At least not until I approach a level of prestige equal to Master Segovia.

 

[Robert Lee]

I taught many people for fee. And often they were the most dedicated students. I see if you do not really have overhead you really do not need to charge and also you find some that want to learn bad but can not pay all the time. I let then learn for free and have them help out at times. Its instructors choice you decide

 

[jks9199]

Hello all. Been on vacation so this is my first post in a while. My friend and I were talking and I feel it is time to possibly start spreading my wings a little bit. One thought I had and people may laugh was to possibly teach for free. This of course would be dependent on someone providing some space like a garage. What are peoples thoughts on teaching for free. My friend is opposed to it saying people would not take it seriously because there is no cash involved. On the other hand if I teach for free I can pick and choose students a little more. Any thoughts?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

Some people feel that if you're not charging -- what you're teaching must not be worth charging for. Some don't.

There is a compromise position; charge enough to cover costs like equipment and insurance (and you DO need appropriate insurance if you're teaching!) but not so that you're making any real profit. I don't teach commercially, but I don't feel bad if the dues my students pay leave enough for me to take my wife out to dinner once in a while or cover some of my costs to go to a clinic or tournament. There are also other ways to "pay." For example, if you're training in Bob's garage... that's Bob's "dues." Or maybe you swap lawn mowing for lessons with a kid... One caveat here; I'm not a fan of "leaning on" students for professional services to the club. Joe might be a plumber, and the dojo needs new pipes -- but that doesn't mean that Joe should HAVE to pay by doing the plumbing if he'd rather just pay cash (assuming you're on monetary basis). (Even worse are stories I've heard where students with various professional skills have been expected to "donate" their skilled time and still pay the fees!)

I do think it's important for students to "pay" for their training in some fashion, other than faithful training. It's a visible show of the value being exchanged, or at least that's the best way I can explain it.

 

[Bigshadow]

Go for it! I instruct in a local park with a few people most of whom attend the same classes I go to. For me it is just more training time. Instructing also is learning. I don't charge. That is why I just call it a training group. It is a way for me to get more training in and hone my skills while hopefully spreading the information to a few serious training partners as taught to me by my instructors. All with their encouragement of course!

 

[terryl965]

All I can say is some will say what you are teaching is worthless for you do not charge, while other will say he is in this for the Love of teaching. With any one of the ways you choose may you be well in your endevours.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

All I can say is some will say what you are teaching is worthless for you do not charge, while other will say he is in this for the Love of teaching. With any one of the ways you choose may you be well in your endevours.

Nicely put Terry!

 

[Naha]

The insurance thing is definitely something to think about. Unfortunately, if something happens, you're liable, even if it is just for an emergency room bill.

 

[Bigshadow]

All I can say is some will say what you are teaching is worthless for you do not charge, while other will say he is in this for the Love of teaching. With any one of the ways you choose may you be well in your endevours.

Great post Terry! I tried to rep you but I have to spread it around first.

 

[CoryKS]

Hello all. Been on vacation so this is my first post in a while. My friend and I were talking and I feel it is time to possibly start spreading my wings a little bit. One thought I had and people may laugh was to possibly teach for free. This of course would be dependent on someone providing some space like a garage. What are peoples thoughts on teaching for free. My friend is opposed to it saying people would not take it seriously because there is no cash involved. On the other hand if I teach for free I can pick and choose students a little more. Any thoughts?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

One thing to keep in mind is that money is not just a way to buy stuff; money is also information. Every time you make a purchase, you're casting a vote on the value of one product relative to all others. When people have to pay for a product or service they tend to be more inclined to demand a certain level of quality, either by voicing complaints or taking their money elsewhere. People who are getting something for free may be more inclined to take whatever they get. I guess what I'm saying is that by providing a free service, you may be limiting the feedback you get regarding the perceived value of the training.

 

[Fuzzy Foot]

I'm likely going to teach just a few people and for free. I didn't read through all the posts but someone mentioned insurance. I had my lawyer write up a release which they must sign to train and he tells me (it may be different in your state) that if I'm not charging a fee I'm much less liable and the release will cover my butt. These days I don't think paying the money will make most students any more committed over the long run.

 

[Andrew Green]

Different "business" models need different class structures IMO. If it is a small no money deal, don't run classes as if you where teaching a commercial program. At that point it is a club, with a similar attitude to a casual game of football or any other "free" sport activity.

Relax, have fun, and be friends. If you wrap it up in all the commercial dressings (uniforms, excessive bowing, "yes sir / no sir", pecking orders, etc) its going to come across wrong.

 

[chinto01]

Thank you all for yur replies. It seems to be a mixed bag. To clarify a couple of points. When I want to pick and choose students I want to extend myself first to a couple of close personel friends who do not have the funds to pay 60 or more dollars a month. Second I look at this that I am in my mid 30's and want to pass on my knowledge to students who I can consider mine. The students I teach now are not really mine but members of the dojo I help out at. Maybe this is a selfish thought process but I want to pass on my knowledge and beliefs as well as my teachers. Now I feel now that I am limited by the program that I am teaching within now.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[michaeledward]

Thank you all for yur replies. It seems to be a mixed bag. To clarify a couple of points. When I want to pick and choose students I want to extend myself first to a couple of close personel friends who do not have the funds to pay 60 or more dollars a month. Second I look at this that I am in my mid 30's and want to pass on my knowledge to students who I can consider mine. The students I teach now are not really mine but members of the dojo I help out at. Maybe this is a selfish thought process but I want to pass on my knowledge and beliefs as well as my teachers. Now I feel now that I am limited by the program that I am teaching within now.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

This becomes, I think, and even trickier question.

Have you spoken with your teacher about this idea? By attempting to take on your own students, you are creating a conflict of interest. Every student that you train for free, is a student that is not paying him.

What will the consequences of this action be? You will not be able to keep it secret. Your teacher / employer will find out about it.

Good Luck.

 

[chinto01]

My teacher is in Okinawa. The only thing he will ask of me is to make them members of his association and any rank they may achieve be autorized by him. He has encouraged me to open a dojo.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Mark Lynn]

My instructor taught for free at his house in his dojo. To be brutally honest because it was free I didn't value it at first as I should have. It was later on that I saw what we truly had.

Later on I had to get over some hang ups I had about teaching for money. But even though my instructor didn't charge later on I started to.

1) If you are accepting money, it is more a business transaction than a personal one, so even if I don't feel up to teaching a class, or it is inconvienent for me to make it to the class etc. etc. I'm going to make it because money has changed hands, I have a responsibility to show up, be prepared, and teach.

2) People vaule your instruction more. It's true. Money is like rank, if you charge people vaule it because they have an investment in it. Why I equate it to being like rank is that I use to teach TKD and Arnis, now I was ranked in TKD (BB) and I was preparing for my Lakan (BB) test in Arnis. I had other BBs who wouldn't work out with me in Arnis but after I tested now I was OK. Same thing with money, when I charged less student's didn't take it seriously, I charge more then I had students who did take it seriously.

3) You have cost associated with teaching. You pay for your lessons, therefore have your students help pay for your training. Both of you are getting benifit. You have travel costs, gas, wear and tear on your vehicle. You have expenses if you are providing equipment, or the place to train, insurance etc. etc. If you transform a garage into a dojo or training area you are giving up a portion of where you can park your car etc. etc. plus making the place safe to train.

While this can be seen as minor stuff now, my instructors garage was converted to his dojo about 25 years ago. He has remolded it a couple of times, new walls, matts etc. etc. I converted my garage about 8 years ago. For my instructor that was 25 years of not being able to use the garage except as a dojo. My garage hasn't had a car in it for the last 8 years.

I'm very loose with people paying me, I've gone months with students not paying but when they get the funds they pay. It is respect.

Mark

 

[Kacey]

I'm likely going to teach just a few people and for free. I didn't read through all the posts but someone mentioned insurance. I had my lawyer write up a release which they must sign to train and he tells me (it may be different in your state) that if I'm not charging a fee I'm much less liable and the release will cover my butt. These days I don't think paying the money will make most students any more committed over the long run.

I would be very careful with releases - as they are frequently not worth the paper they're printed on. Way too many "informed releases" have been broken in court.

I've been teaching TKD for nearly 15 years, and I've carried my own insurance for the last 8; I have never (knock on wood) had to use it (other than as a tax write-off), but in today's society, it would concern me greatly to not have it.

I'm not going to add anything else to the take money/don't take money debate because I think it's been covered pretty well from both sides.

 

[still learning]

Hello, My Shotokan Sensi...did not want to go thru process of trying to collect money any more.

So when he started a Shotokan class in town...he DID NOT CHARGE anything. He even paid for the use of the room. (community building).

He just wanted a place to train and teach those who wanted to learn. (Evenings), during the week he was in drywall work.

It was just like any other martial art class training.

Money did not make a differance on what we learn and did..

Think about all those coaches who coach soccer,football,baseball, basketball and other sports, teaching them kids for NO MONEY...just the love of giving there time.....

Teaching martial arts can be a business and many are! It is up to you? If you want to charge a fee?

There are many Instructors who DO NOT CHARGE ANYTHING!!! ...BECAUSE they love teaching and sharing with others..........Aloha