Has MMA done harm to martial arts

DeLamar.J

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I love MMA but at times I think it has done alot of harm to the martial arts world. Most people think that you have to compete in UFC to prove that your art is effective. Real kung Fu was not made for a sporting event. There are people who train in iron palm who can break 7 bricks free standing with no spacers, why would they join a fight where they have to cover up their hands? Wing Chun concentrates on strikes to vital areas that MMA events dont allow, so why the hate for the WC guys who go into the cage under rules they are not used to following?
There is so much disrespect from MMA people trying to discredit real martial artists because they wont fight in MMA.
 

Bill Mattocks

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I love MMA but at times I think it has done alot of harm to the martial arts world.

That's an interesting question, but overall, I think I doubt that MMA has done any damage to traditional martial arts, and may have done it some good.

In what way would it 'do harm' to martial arts?

There appears to be a renewal of interest in martial arts of all types, not unlike that which appeared when TV shows like "Kung Fu" were new and Bruce Lee hit the scene like an atom bomb.

Most people think that you have to compete in UFC to prove that your art is effective.

Well, maybe immature people.

Real kung Fu was not made for a sporting event. There are people who train in iron palm who can break 7 bricks free standing with no spacers, why would they join a fight where they have to cover up their hands? Wing Chun concentrates on strikes to vital areas that MMA events dont allow, so why the hate for the WC guys who go into the cage under rules they are not used to following?

I hear your frustration. But why feel bad about not competing in a sport you don't want to compete in? I'm not quite getting that.

There is so much disrespect from MMA people trying to discredit real martial artists because they wont fight in MMA.

Maybe I don't get out enough. I haven't seen that. Just looking at the example here on MT, I see people getting along and not having wars over style, method, training, etc for the most part.

My thought is that people who are interested in MMA as their primary motivator are not generally interested in training in traditional martial arts, and they would not be even if there was no MMA. And vice-versa.

If I were walking down the street and some guy told me "Hey, your karate stinks, MMA is where it's at," I'd laugh. Sounds like an old chop-socky movie. Fine with me!

On the other hand, it seems to me that young people might see MMA events on TV, get interested, and check out a local dojo or kwoon, whatever. They might like what they see or they might not, but at least they thought about it and looked into it. If they choose MMA anyway, I kind of doubt they'd be into learning formal bows and the Japanese or Chinese words for forms or kata.
 

Tez3

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I think it has done less harm than 6 year old BBs, 10 year old 2nd Dans etc.
I've seen no hate for any paricular style in MMA, remember that the UFC isn't the whole of MMA, it's one promotion. The UFC and other MMA promotions offer competition, thats all. They don't sell it as self defence or anything other than it is - a sporting competition.
I would dispute too that theres disrespect for TMA people, I think thats simply not true. You will get the armchair critics but every sport has them, whenever the England footie team lose you should hear people go on about what should have happened, who should have played and what the team tactics were, everyones an expert.
As with the OP though I have read plenty of the disrespect going the other way, MMA is more often disrespected by TMA people than TMA is by MMAers, simply because many MMAers come from a TMA background.
 

Twin Fist

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i will agree with Tez, the mcdojo does more harm, but MMA has been a terrible influence on the martial arts world as a whole, in my opinion.
 

StrongFighter

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MMA is basically one step away from being a bloodsport.

I do enjoy watching UFC and Pride championships, however, the egos in some of the men on MMA tv are just overkill lol.

MMA does help in some ways like looking into judo or sambo and becoming dedicated to one or two martial arts.

People do not get into that kind of thing with hardcore MMA, maybe judo or karate tournaments.

Most people normally sign up for self defense or health reasons.
 

Steve

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Personally, my opinion is that MMA as a discipline has done the world of Martial Arts a whole hell of a lot of good. Renewed interest in training, and a greater awareness and understanding of the distinction between many arts. 10 years ago, to the average person, martial arts were all the same. Wassaaaaa! Now, I'd bet that most people understand the difference between a striking art and a grappling art, if not more.

I think that what has damaged martial arts is the marketing machine and the direction that the various MMA promotions have chosen to take the sport. Extreme knockout videos, blood, team psycho, ultimate badass, blah, blah. THAT is ridiculous and bad for everyone, even MMA. But right now, it's making money.
 

Andrew Green

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Real kung Fu was not made for a sporting event.

I think this is a bit of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

Kung Fu has been used for sporting events for a very long time, in a much more dangerous environment then MMA. Do a little search into "Lei Tai".

Nowadays Sanshou is quite popular, and still uses the Lei Tai, but the sport has been made safer through rules and equipment.

There are people who train in iron palm who can break 7 bricks free standing with no spacers, why would they join a fight where they have to cover up their hands?

Breaking bricks and fighting are two very different activities, and they will draw different sorts of people too them.

Wing Chun concentrates on strikes to vital areas that MMA events dont allow, so why the hate for the WC guys who go into the cage under rules they are not used to following?

Not too long ago all those rules didn't exist, and a couple guys did try to compete. It didn't work out well for them though, Wing chun training simply doesn't translate well into MMA fighting.

No need to get defensive about that though, MMA training does not translate well into wing chun fighting, chi sau and other things. We do different things, and have different objectives, which results in different skill sets.

There is so much disrespect from MMA people trying to discredit real martial artists because they wont fight in MMA.

Have to admit, I don't see much of that. Even among the folks you are seeing the majority of the time I've seen anyone make those sorts of claims is when someone claims their style, which doesn't compete, would easily win if it did compete, except that their style is "above competition" and "too dangerous."

Which is silly, it's like me claiming I "could" beat you at Chi sau, but I don't want to, because I might hurt you.

If you don't train for MMA fighting, you are not going to do well at it, I don't think anyone expects it to be any different. Well, ok, some people might give you a hard time about it, but it goes both ways, there are also Wing Chun people that claim Wing Chun would mop the floor in the cage, except no one will fight because of some silly reason.
 

Rich Parsons

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I love MMA but at times I think it has done alot of harm to the martial arts world. Most people think that you have to compete in UFC to prove that your art is effective. Real kung Fu was not made for a sporting event. There are people who train in iron palm who can break 7 bricks free standing with no spacers, why would they join a fight where they have to cover up their hands? Wing Chun concentrates on strikes to vital areas that MMA events dont allow, so why the hate for the WC guys who go into the cage under rules they are not used to following?
There is so much disrespect from MMA people trying to discredit real martial artists because they wont fight in MMA.

In the 50's it was Karate, and in the 60's it was Judo or Jujitsu, in the 70's it was full contact TKD/TSD/Karate and even some Muay Thia. In the 80's it was weapons based systems, and then in the 90's MMA took off.


Of course there was overlap more then listed above. It is generality I made.

In each era if you were not part of the "In" groups then you were not training well.

No one wants to train in second best.


In the early and mid 80's if you did not train in a kicking art in my area you were not training in an art that would give you the best self defense. Weapons based systems could give you self defense but even today people think that without a weapon they are defenseless.


I think that MMA is having its' time in the big lights, and that is good.

I think people should train in what they want too. There will always be people looking for the popular system or art or what have you.
 

Twin Fist

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well, for me it is simple

without the UFC and MMA, i wouldnt have to deal with the Gracie fan wanks and all thier "if you dont grapple you suck" non-sense...

just the loss of those headaches would put my world a lot closer to being in balance......
 

Sandstorm

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This is the first time a real contact fighting sport has hit mainstream success. Boxing has fallen by the wayside with all the politics and BS surrounding it. Martial Arts have not been great television. Now, we are seeing standard rules in the main events so that the audience can learn, undertstand and appreciate the techniques involved.
When the UFC first hit the world, people were astounded at this little guy in pyjamas choking out burly 'tough guys' and 'expert' martial artists. What surprised me in the earlier events was the completely fictitious arts that were represented like 'Pit fighting' and 'Trap Fighting' LOOOL!!
Now, I know a handful of people who sent in their applications to the UFC to fight, and all were declined. Not sure if I want to suggest that the matchmakers had alterior motives, but those eary days sure stank of BS. I am pleased to see a more balanced approach to matchmaking nowadays, with true champs fighting each other in their own weight bracket.

Now, onto the actual question at hand. My response would be that on the one hand, yes, it has made the TMAs look bad, but only to the armchair numpties who swig their Heinekin and dribble it down their string vests. It's also made evryone an expert, like the football fans who have every answer under the sun while sat on their fat arses. But, who cares about the ignorant?

On the other hand, I would say absolutely not. It has encouraged people to take an interest in combat sports. It's opened the eyes of these WWF fanatics and shown them that, while 'Show' wrestling is 'entertainment', it sure as hell isn't 'fighting'. It has encouraged people to want to cross train and do what Bruce Lee did with Dan Inosanto all those years ago. Blend, learn, study and incorporate what works and throw out what doesn't. Make the arts work for YOU!

My main gripe with this whole MMA uprising, is that now, I see styles turning their back on their traditional syllabus and incorporating Grappling where there was none before. IMO, that's not a good thing. If the student wants to grapple as well as strike, they should take a second class with an experienced grappler. Some teachers have no business altering their syllabus to make money off false claims.

Kind regards
John
 

searcher

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If any aprt of MMA has done damage to te MA, it is the show Ultimate Fighter. Most, not all, of the guys on the show end up making fools of themselves and in turn, give the MA a bad name. Outside of that, I don't see it as having done any major damage. I hate to see guys changing their styles technical base to make it more MMA capable. Don't lose sight of where you come from or you will lose track of where you are going.
 

Aiki Lee

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I used to think that MMA was a bad influence on the martial arts community but I've altered my opinion on the matter.

There are people in the sport that are scummy and talk about how TMA suck or how a particular MA is weak or ineffective, but there are those kind of people in every martial arts system. These jerks are everywhere.

What I can't stand are the people who come off as if MMA were the epitomy of martial arts mastery, you know those who believe they've one upped the samurai or the roman gladiators, and they are the pinnicle of combative prowess.

MMA only really bothers me when people forget it is a sport and sport fighting is different not only because of the rules, but because the "energy" is idfferent too.

By "energy", I am refering to how fighters in the ring square off and are ready to exchange hits looking for an opening and lasts several minutes on occassion, but in a life or death fight the energy changes to that of being totally kill or be killed and happens instantaneous. Those who have been in both sport fights and SD situations should know what I mean.
 

tellner

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On the whole I think it's been positive.

For a long, long time we went to the dojo where we ignorant foreigners were privileged to sit at the feet of the Masters and bask in the Wisdom of the Orient.

There was precious little in the way of reality checks. There was a lot of mumbo jumbo. The brainwashing was - and in some cases still is - ludicrous. Funny costumes. Stilted language. Fortune cookie philosophy. Ridiculous subordination that you normally only find in a S&M club. And of course you had to Believe.

The Gracies asked a very simple question: Can you fight?

They proved pretty conclusively that their stuff worked. It still works well enough that everyone has to learn the rudiments in order to deal with it. Kudos to them. Of course, sooner or later everyone learns your tricks. Gracie Ju Jitsu is just one of several methods that people draw from. The family isn't unbeatable anymore.

A lot of egos got bruised. Grand Master this and Shihan that found out that their stuff wasn't teh d34dl33 the way they had been told by Great Grandmaster thus-and-such or Soke whatsis. Business dropped off just like it had for others in their time. Marketing alone - and I include worshipful stories about great fighters in the dim past to be marketing - wouldn't sell the product anymore now that there was a place where young aggressive guys could watch people get beat up for real and have a go if they were willing to put in the hard work.

It's certainly fueled a period of development and innovation in the martial arts. People from different groups are fighting and talking with each other to see how they can produce real-world success. What works in the ring will survive among the prizefighters. What doesn't won't.

Of course, MMA will become annoying in its own ways. And eventually it will give way to something else. Until then we should be glad of this period of cross-fertilization and the reality check it's given everyone.
 

StrongFighter

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By "energy", I am refering to how fighters in the ring square off and are ready to exchange hits looking for an opening and lasts several minutes on occassion, but in a life or death fight the energy changes to that of being totally kill or be killed and happens instantaneous. Those who have been in both sport fights and SD situations should know what I mean.

MMA and prison fighting are two totally different environments as is the battlefield environment which resembles close combat in prison with knives, improvised weapons and bare hands in a wartime environment.

Illegally held matches where one dies and the another goes home is also a very different environment from the MMA ring.

There is nothing like it ever before or since, after you have experienced life and death close combat.
 

Cryozombie

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The most "Harm" MMA has done is get some groups of people convinced that MMA is "Human Dogfighting" and then they call for a ban on the martial arts. So far, this hasn't happened beyond some places calling for the banning of MMA tounaments, which if I am correct (its been a while since we had those threads) all got shot down pretty quickly (those bans) so until it gets to the point that it puts other arts in Jeapordy I'd say, no it hasn't done harm, just created an annoying new batch of "OMFNG mah MMA is so 7334 it pwns you wanna be ninjers" on the net.
 

Thesemindz

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I love MMA but at times I think it has done alot of harm to the martial arts world. Most people think that you have to compete in UFC to prove that your art is effective.

What can you do, there's jerks everywhere. If you ignore them, they eventually move on to someplace where they will find validation.

Real kung Fu was not made for a sporting event.

Depending on who you listen to, "real" kung fu was made primarily for fitness, and was adapted to self defense.

There are people who train in iron palm who can break 7 bricks free standing with no spacers, why would they join a fight where they have to cover up their hands?

Good question. Why would they? What do they stand to gain? Is it pride? If so, then should we care that much when their pride is wounded?

Wing Chun concentrates on strikes to vital areas that MMA events dont allow, so why the hate for the WC guys who go into the cage under rules they are not used to following?

Why are they going into the ring under rules they are not used to following? Why don't they either stick to their own arena, or learn the rules of the new one? Why try to fit their square peg into someone else's round hole?

There is so much disrespect from MMA people trying to discredit real martial artists because they wont fight in MMA.

See above comment relating to jerks.

Ultimately, I think MMA has done some bad, and a lot more good. But in the end, the good or bad it does is unique to every practitioner. Is it doing good or bad for you and your training? That's really all that should matter.


-Rob
 

MJS

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I love MMA but at times I think it has done alot of harm to the martial arts world. Most people think that you have to compete in UFC to prove that your art is effective. Real kung Fu was not made for a sporting event. There are people who train in iron palm who can break 7 bricks free standing with no spacers, why would they join a fight where they have to cover up their hands? Wing Chun concentrates on strikes to vital areas that MMA events dont allow, so why the hate for the WC guys who go into the cage under rules they are not used to following?
There is so much disrespect from MMA people trying to discredit real martial artists because they wont fight in MMA.

I'd say its one good and bad.

The good: Its opened the eyes of people to the importance of being well rounded, that grappling is important, that its important to train with some resistance/aliveness.

The bad: People think that if they don't see it in the cage, then it won't work, its no good, and that unless you jump into the ring, you suck. The attitudes of some of the people, mainly what you see on TUF...well, lets say that some of those folks need to grow up.

Like I always say, IMO, I think that everyone can benefit from TMA and MMA. Frankly, I don't really care if someone thinks my arts are no good. I'm not out to impress anyone, especially a MMAist. As long as what I do works for me, thats all that matters IMO. :)
 

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