San Do, new twist on MMA for the traditional martial artist???

dungeonworks

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYXDY5dPhVI&feature=player_embedded

Found this on You Tube. Looks like "Felon Fights" with an MMA twist with possible apeal to the traditional martial artist??? It is interesting to say the least, but kind of harmful to public perception of the real sport of MMA. I know MMA was considered a spectacle in the beginning too, but this....I guess it is neat to watch for a minute.

On the other hand, many traditional martial arts do train for these type of situations. We sparred two on one in Koei-Kan-Karate and I believe JKD does too, and both Tae Kwon Do schools I attended did as well, but not full contact like the other two.


Discuss?
 

ATC

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Interesting indeed. Now things are getting even closer to real. With more than a one on one you eliminate the 5 minutes on the ground looking for position. This is even closer to a real street situation. But then they bring back the more traditional (can't believe I am say Traditional and MMA in the same sentance) MMA style of fighting once one man is eleminated.

Guess they are trying to take things a notch up.
 

Tez3

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Interesting indeed. Now things are getting even closer to real. With more than a one on one you eliminate the 5 minutes on the ground looking for position. This is even closer to a real street situation. But then they bring back the more traditional (can't believe I am say Traditional and MMA in the same sentance) MMA style of fighting once one man is eleminated.

Guess they are trying to take things a notch up.


If you spend five minutes looking for position in an MMA fight I'd say you were in the totally wrong sport. You must have been watching some really bad MMA or have been watching people with no BJJ.

MMA fighting isn't for self defence or street fighting it's for competition.
 

ATC

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If you spend five minutes looking for position in an MMA fight I'd say you were in the totally wrong sport. You must have been watching some really bad MMA or have been watching people with no BJJ...
The statement was not to be taken literally.
 

sgtmac_46

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MMA fighting isn't for self defence or street fighting it's for competition.
Funny, though, that it works better for self-defense than many systems labeled 'For Self-Defense'.....I always find that interesting.

It's that semantics thing again.......it's like Boxing........is it a contest or an art useful for self-defense? Or Judo.......is it a contest or an art useful for self-defense? The answer is yes.
 

sgtmac_46

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As for San Do, it seems kind of like a gimmick more than anything. 'It's not the UFC.....see we have three guys in a fight, instead of two......so it's different'. It's kind of like the IFC, which was also gimmicky. 'It's not like the UFC.......see we have teams, and stuff'.

The problem with gimmicks is, that if it's all that separates you from the competition.......it doesn't really separate you from the competition, it just confuses potential fans.

Now, if instead of three guys fighting in a ring, they had it on a football field with 2 teams of 10, and it was a giant brawl with the last team standing winning........i'd watch that!

We could call it 'The Hooligan Fight League'........HFL (TM)!
 

Tez3

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As for San Do, it seems kind of like a gimmick more than anything. 'It's not the UFC.....see we have three guys in a fight, instead of two......so it's different'. It's kind of like the IFC, which was also gimmicky. 'It's not like the UFC.......see we have teams, and stuff'.

The problem with gimmicks is, that if it's all that separates you from the competition.......it doesn't really separate you from the competition, it just confuses potential fans.

Now, if instead of three guys fighting in a ring, they had it on a football field with 2 teams of 10, and it was a giant brawl with the last team standing winning........i'd watch that!

We could call it 'The Hooligan Fight League'........HFL (TM)!


We have teams fighting in Europe, they are football 'supporters' and they arrange with other 'supporters' to meet up in a field somewhere and they all battle it out. There's been a big clamp down on football violence in towns and near footie stadiums so the hooligans have taken to trying to get away from the police and came up with these mob fights.


Sometimes it's hard enough getting matches for normal fights of two fighters, can't imagine trying to match three or more and paying them will work out expensive too.
 

teekin

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Or we cuold have this;

 
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ATC

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And we are supposed to know that how?
Kind of obvious. A round is only 5 minutes so most would understand that the statement was an exaggeration.

The point was that many times in the street you may get jumped by multiple attackers. Spending any time on the ground with one person while there are more than one people to defend against is not an option. Any of the other attackers could knife you, kick you in the head and a number of other bad things while on the ground.
 

Tez3

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Kind of obvious. A round is only 5 minutes so most would understand that the statement was an exaggeration.

The point was that many times in the street you may get jumped by multiple attackers. Spending any time on the ground with one person while there are more than one people to defend against is not an option. Any of the other attackers could knife you, kick you in the head and a number of other bad things while on the ground.


Well, actually our rounds are 3 X 3 mins with 5 minute rounds only for championship fights.
We practice multiple attacker drills in self defence classes not the MMA classes.
 

Nolerama

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Here we go again!

Personally, I think San-Do is not very goo entertainment and does not simulate a "more realistic" situation since there is a rule set.
 

Nolerama

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And that is the key for all competition type matches. "RULES"! Good call.

Before jumping on the "rules vs. realism" train, please note that I'm not a fan of that particular rule set.

Besides, we all fight within a rule set. Example: I'm not using a knife as a primary SD tool, since using it would land me in jail (even for that night).

Example: You get in a pushing match in a bar, and your girlfriend tugs on your arm for you to leave, or she'll leave you... and you do.

There's differing levels of rules governing all conflict. Not all h2h conflicts on the street include the use of debilitating techniques/weapons/etc.... At least in the US.
 

Tez3

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Before jumping on the "rules vs. realism" train, please note that I'm not a fan of that particular rule set.

Besides, we all fight within a rule set. Example: I'm not using a knife as a primary SD tool, since using it would land me in jail (even for that night).

Example: You get in a pushing match in a bar, and your girlfriend tugs on your arm for you to leave, or she'll leave you... and you do.

There's differing levels of rules governing all conflict. Not all h2h conflicts on the street include the use of debilitating techniques/weapons/etc.... At least in the US.

I wasn't joking when I said that we have fight in fields here and in Europe, these are no rules contests where there have been deaths.
http://people.exeter.ac.uk/watupman/undergrad/rowlands/hooliganismhistory.htm
 

searcher

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But to truly get "realism," you would have to put it in a bar type setting and allow there to be no rules. You go until someone is truly incapacitated or they die. It would have to be a large group and weapons would have to be allowed.

Now, how long do you think that will last? Not very darn long.
 

ATC

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Before jumping on the "rules vs. realism" train, please note that I'm not a fan of that particular rule set.

Besides, we all fight within a rule set. Example: I'm not using a knife as a primary SD tool, since using it would land me in jail (even for that night).

Example: You get in a pushing match in a bar, and your girlfriend tugs on your arm for you to leave, or she'll leave you... and you do.

There's differing levels of rules governing all conflict. Not all h2h conflicts on the street include the use of debilitating techniques/weapons/etc.... At least in the US.
I don't see those as rules for anything. Those are just how the conflict ended. Rules are known. The examples you stated did not end because of some pre set agreed upon allowance or restriction of the encounter. They ended because they never started. Just because you chose to not use a knife does not mean that an attacker won't. Even if both people don't use knifes isn’t because you both acknowledged and agreed upon it beforehand. Fear may be the cause. Fear of jail or fear of causing someone harm. But that is a choice not a rule. Just like you would choose to walk away or fight. People get stabbed everyday. So the rule of law seems to be ignored or not followed everyday.

If I choose to not kick my opponent in the groin does not mean that I am abiding by any rules, the option is still there regardless if I choose to use it or not.

Fighting by no rules means that any option is open for you to use. However it is unlikely that one would or could use every option available. If the fight ends with one punch to the head, does not mean that they fought by some rule set. It simple means that the fight ended with that one option that was chosen and further options were not needed.

Even the rule of laws can be ignored when defending one’s life. But once you life is no longer in danger then the laws will again apply. So killing may not be an option, but one could still use a knife without killing, as long as the life is no longer in danger after using the knife. Example; If you injure an attackers leg or arm with such knife and the injured attacker flees, it is not permitted to go after the attacker and kill him with the knife. However if you use such knife in defending an attack and your only strike is a fatal one then the law may find that the kill was justified in self defense. In both cases a knife can be used and the law could find you justified in both cases.
 

sgtmac_46

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But to truly get "realism," you would have to put it in a bar type setting and allow there to be no rules. You go until someone is truly incapacitated or they die. It would have to be a large group and weapons would have to be allowed.

Now, how long do you think that will last? Not very darn long.

But that's not realistic either, as very few real fights are too the death........MOST real fights are simply someone getting hit two or three good times in the face, and then giving up and quitting.

Those who talk about 'realism' are chasing a pretty nebulous thing, that changes faster than you can get a handle on it.

In fact, 'realistic' changes even from place to place. Most cultures have some pretty unofficial, yet very real, 'rules' in place, even when it comes to street violence.......others have far different 'rules'.


The most accurate definition of a 'Realistic' fight is.......the one that is standing right in front of me right now.
 

Nolerama

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I'm saying that there are (among many) persona, societal, and governmental rules, etc that can affect a fight, how it plays out, and how it ends.

If you're planning for the worst case scenario, more power to you. But I'm not tucking my pants into my shoes, scrapping my wrist watch, and looking over my shoulder like some sort of paranoid para-militant wannabe.

But that's really beside the point on this merry-go-round of selective listening.

I really apologize for any ill comment or misunderstanding in this thread.
 
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