Government take over of the Kukkiwon?
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rip_dorey
White Belt
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Kukkiwon is one big bribe and gangsters center as one of you have already mentioned. Those old farts in suits should be all in jail. Even the building should be burn to the ground and a new institution should be called up. I really hope government will take over kukkiwon, maybe somebody will shake it strong enough to remove those worms.
dortiz
Black Belt
Well, thats sort of whats happening.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Right because we all know that Government officials are sooooo beyond corruption that they will show the way.
All that is going to happen is you switch out one set of corruption for another. Government knows that the KKW and TKD are big bucks for the Korea. This is just their way of getting their piece of the pie. At least the ones currently running have, for the most part, dedicated their lives to TKD itself.
Archtkd
3rd Black Belt
I think we are going a tid-bit over the top here. There are still many good guys at the Kukkiwon: The serious grandmasters who try their best to teach and spread Taekwondo the proper way.
But, as happens in many large organizations, where there's lots of money flowing in, bad guys try get the upper hand. Power, over time, also corrupts. Think of large non-profit organizations here in the U.S. such as the United Way, American Red Cross, Catholic Charities, etc. that are set up to do good, but every now and then attract criminal characters.
I don't think a carte blanche Korean government takeover of the Kukkiwon will do. A more focused effort to weed out the gangsters, embezzlers and political operatives at the organization would be the better solution.
I think the Kukkiwon also needs the younger, more cosmopolitan and worldly types of Taekwondo bureaucrats that the WTF and the Taekwondo Promotion Foundation is attracting. Lee Dai-Soon, Taekwondo Promotion Foundation president, and Choue Chung-won, WTF president, for example, are both former presidents of Korean universities. Im not saying such men cannot be corrupted, but I think they possess good management and political skills to help serious grandmasters run a Kukkiwon which has expanded way beyond what Kim Un-Yong set out to create.
troubleenuf
Blue Belt
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There are just as many good guys here in the old USA. With as much experience. Why are we looking to an organization oversees when we should have a legitimate certification program here? Its time for us to take care of our own business!
No one is stopping you. There are National Orgs here that do Certification and Are very good. You dont have to go through Kukkiwon if you dont want to. Some of us Choose to, but by no means does that mean You have too.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
If you are really that dissatified with the Kukkiwon then by all means leave and join one of a multitude of fly by night orgs out there who will be more than happy to promote you without the "politics" or start your own organization.
What kills me is that people are have such animosity for the KKW, yet choose to stay. We get it already. You and others here think the the KKW is ripping people off and is no good. Then by all means build the better mousetrap.
Good guys: define please: Good in what way? Who are these good guys?
If you mean good, as in our good guys would solve the corruption problem, well, that is naive: the only thing that we have contributed to taekwondo is the McDojo, tons of clubs and associated fees, video and online certification, the USTU, which had its own corruption issues, and was reorganized into USAT, which may or may not have its own issues.
Our nation is festering with corruption from the very highest levels of our government to the lowest levels of society. We have no moral high ground to stand upon as a nation in this regard.
With as much experience: In what? Taekwondo? Some of the individuals staffing the Kukkiwon began Taekwondo in the fifties and sixties and/or have been practicing the art since childhood and are now in middle age.
Our own business: Is it our own business? I question that. The art was neither born nor developed here. The 'old USA' is really just the young USA and has no claim on either the development of taekwondo nor the donor arts that its techniques are culled from, some of which themselves have donor arts that are possibly older than the 'old USA', so I fail to see how it is our business.
Taekwondo is a Korean art and an international sport with one international competition circuit (WTF) that culminates in the olympic games, and we have a US affiliate (USAT). As well as three international federations (the three ITF"s) each of which have a world championship.
If you want an American Taekwondo organization that takes care of our business, we already have several:
http://ataonline.com/
http://www.tkd.org/
http://www.dsihq.com/#the-independent-taekwondo-association-ita-4c5084
http://www.nptatkd.com/
There are probably more, but I think that four are enough.
Daniel
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dortiz
Black Belt
Not to bash the KKW but I am not sure of the other argument thrown out. The Koreans made karate their own. They did this from at first a very small group bringing it back home and then growing it and then modifying as training and conditions allowed.
To be honest the Americas have had TKD just as long if not longer than the original koreans did before they made their version. Using that argument you could say American TKD with the new science of weapons, BJJ etc. could be become the US Version and be its own just as much as the Korean version grew apart from its roots.
Its a good argument.
Dave O.
To be honest the Americas have had TKD just as long if not longer than the original koreans did before they made their version. Using that argument you could say American TKD with the new science of weapons, BJJ etc. could be become the US Version and be its own just as much as the Korean version grew apart from its roots.
Its a good argument.
Dave O.
Good points, and coming from you, they carry a good amount of weight in my opinion, so I will have to consider that and reevaluate my own perspective.
Your post contains an observation that I found particularly interesting (bolded text). Rather than derail this thread, I started a new thread on the topic: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82681.
Thank you, Sir!
Daniel
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miguksaram
Master of Arts
I agree. Why should it be called TKD at this point. If you have implemented other areas into what you do, give it another name all together. After all, the Koreans did not mix in everything and keep the name Karate. So why not just compose a whole different art?
I would love for you to pose that question here, as well as respond here: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82681.
I have pretty healthy respect for your posts.
Daniel
Archtkd
3rd Black Belt
This is not to say that Korea and the Kukkiwon are not important to Taekwondo. They still are and will continue to be. Taekwondo, though, has evolved into an international martial art and sport, which is being reshaped every day by people from all over the world. For their part, Americans, I think, have influenced Taekwondo more than any other country in the world besides Korea. The latest Kukkiwon data I have (from 2001), for example, shows the U.S, has the largest number of Kukkiwon black belts of any level, in the world, after Korea. Those statistics, I believe, give the nation great leverage to further innovate Taekwondo. (The specific data is available on request.)
A lot of the ideas and modifications to WTF kyorugi also came from the United States, through masters who immigrated from Korea and the American students they taught. A history (http://www.lacancha.com/kmfound.pdf) of the founding of the USTU by grandmaster Ken Min, who headed the martial arts program at the University of California Berkeley offers a glimpse of how those changes came about. Without the USTU, I doubt that the WTF would have gained the global acceptance it now has. Ken Min, and the U.C Berkeley martial arts program continue to shape Taekwondo to this day. The curriculum for the new training center at the proposed Taekwondo Park in Muju, for instance, is largely being developed at U.C. Berkeley. There are also many other Korean-American and native-born Americans who have directly or indirectly influenced the development of Taekwondo as we know it today.
This begs the question: Why do many of us still support the Kukkiwon despite its faults? I believe, the foundation is still home to the some of the worlds best and most experienced WTF taekwondo practioners. It continues to be an international depository of key Taekwondo traditions and leading developers and adopters of new techniques that keep Taekwondo fresh and relevant. Its certification also is internationally recognized, despite what some critics say. As indirect members of the Kukkiwon we can choose to flee from the organization when things heat up or stay and fight to help make it better for the next generation of global Taekwondo practitioners. This fight is not restricted to dojangs and gymnasiums. It can be done in boardrooms, forums like this, through our teachers, politically and financially. We all have different talents that we can use to make Taekwondo better.
A lot of the ideas and modifications to WTF kyorugi also came from the United States, through masters who immigrated from Korea and the American students they taught. A history (http://www.lacancha.com/kmfound.pdf) of the founding of the USTU by grandmaster Ken Min, who headed the martial arts program at the University of California Berkeley offers a glimpse of how those changes came about. Without the USTU, I doubt that the WTF would have gained the global acceptance it now has. Ken Min, and the U.C Berkeley martial arts program continue to shape Taekwondo to this day. The curriculum for the new training center at the proposed Taekwondo Park in Muju, for instance, is largely being developed at U.C. Berkeley. There are also many other Korean-American and native-born Americans who have directly or indirectly influenced the development of Taekwondo as we know it today.
This begs the question: Why do many of us still support the Kukkiwon despite its faults? I believe, the foundation is still home to the some of the worlds best and most experienced WTF taekwondo practioners. It continues to be an international depository of key Taekwondo traditions and leading developers and adopters of new techniques that keep Taekwondo fresh and relevant. Its certification also is internationally recognized, despite what some critics say. As indirect members of the Kukkiwon we can choose to flee from the organization when things heat up or stay and fight to help make it better for the next generation of global Taekwondo practitioners. This fight is not restricted to dojangs and gymnasiums. It can be done in boardrooms, forums like this, through our teachers, politically and financially. We all have different talents that we can use to make Taekwondo better.
Archtkd
3rd Black Belt
Could someone out there, who's fluent in Spanish offer some translation of this story. I think it's stating Seung-Wan Lee is the new Kukkiwon president, but I can't figure out if it's a bonafide new news story or commentary about stuff we've already covered on this thread.
http://www.mastaekwondo.com/noticias/seung-wan-lee-nuevo-presidente-de-kukkiwon_4120.php
http://www.mastaekwondo.com/noticias/seung-wan-lee-nuevo-presidente-de-kukkiwon_4120.php
Archtkd
3rd Black Belt
Here's another story from Mookas appearing to confirm
Lee Seung-Wang is the new head of the Kukkiwon. He's referred to as chairman, though, and I'm wondering if this is different from the title of president Kim Un-Yong and Uhm Woon-Kyu. http://www.mookas.us/media_view.asp?news_no=1627
Lee Seung-Wang is the new head of the Kukkiwon. He's referred to as chairman, though, and I'm wondering if this is different from the title of president Kim Un-Yong and Uhm Woon-Kyu. http://www.mookas.us/media_view.asp?news_no=1627
Archtkd
3rd Black Belt
Oops! I meant to say the title of president that Kim Un-Yong and Uhm Woon-Kyu held. Please note I've redirected this question to the to the correct thread "New Kukkiwon President."
