Government take over of the Kukkiwon?

[miguksaram]

Ok so 85 people went and got a citation... for what? Did they even know who you are?

Do they know us personally? No, I doubt it. With 70 million practitioners in the world I wouldn't even begin to fool myself into thinking they knew me. They knew that we were a group comprised of people from 13 different countries who were touring Korea specifically about the TKD Park. The citation was merely a nice gesture to thank us for taking the time to visit.

Its the same reason Kukkiwon certificates have come to mean little. They GIVE them to EVERYONE!!!

Cool. Show me your citation you got personally signed by President Lee.

 

[miguksaram]

dont know who reads it.... but i got this months issue of tkdtimes today. in it, it has a blip about the "taekwondo park" that "will house the world taekwondo academy", designated by the WTF, scheduled to open in 2013. It does not specifically say the name "Kukkiwon". Only world taekwondo academy. Thought that was strange.

As I understood it, the TKD Park is more on the WTF side than the KKW side. This is where some of us had some problems with it. It almost looks as though WTF is trying to edge out the KKW as the center for TKD. A lot of what they are wanting to do at the park is what KKW already does. They are just adding more pizzaz.

oh... $185 million to build.... mine and yours cert fees at work.

Not really. The money being used is coming from two different sources. The first source is government funding. The second source will be privately raised funds. Since it seems that this is a WTF project, cert fees are paying for anything. Just to beat a dead horse...any outrageous cert fees are usually charged at the school level not the KKW level. The dan cert fees are actually inexpensive.

 

[miguksaram]

i wonder if we should even send in for certs? dont see why not... but it makes u leary. one thing I have learned.... they dont like to be to open with whats going on. Keep it all in the house kindof thing even if the house is on fire and everyone knows it.

As of right now, they have an acting president at the KKW, who will most likely become the actual president soon. So I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 

[Laurentkd]

As of right now, they have an acting president at the KKW, who will most likely become the actual president soon. So I wouldn't sweat it too much.

why do you think that?

 

[Miles]

why do you think that?

I think this was exactly what happened when GM UHM, Woon Kyu became KKW President. He was "acting" President until officially voted in by the Board.

 

[troubleenuf]

You prove my point... the citation USED to be given for actually doing something for TKD. It was usually applied for by your instructor who had to give a recommendation and a reason you should get one, not given randomly. NOW it is given out to someone who sat on a plane and showed up. So... I guess I am short 5 for the trips I took?
And no, I dont have any signed by Lee.... I only have two that are signed by Kim and one by Ro (Kwan citation). But they are antiques now.

Do they know us personally? No, I doubt it. With 70 million practitioners in the world I wouldn't even begin to fool myself into thinking they knew me. They knew that we were a group comprised of people from 13 different countries who were touring Korea specifically about the TKD Park. The citation was merely a nice gesture to thank us for taking the time to visit.



Cool. Show me your citation you got personally signed by President Lee.

 

[miguksaram]

You prove my point... the citation USED to be given for actually doing something for TKD. It was usually applied for by your instructor who had to give a recommendation and a reason you should get one, not given randomly. NOW it is given out to someone who sat on a plane and showed up. So... I guess I am short 5 for the trips I took?
And no, I dont have any signed by Lee.... I only have two that are signed by Kim and one by Ro (Kwan citation). But they are antiques now.

I guess you are short 5. So next time you go over there. Just walk on in and ask for your citation for showing up and let me know how that works for you.

 

[Miles]

.... It was usually applied for by your instructor who had to give a recommendation and a reason you should get one, not given randomly. NOW it is given out to someone who sat on a plane and showed up. So... I guess I am short 5 for the trips I took?
And no, I dont have any signed by Lee.... I only have two that are signed by Kim and one by Ro (Kwan citation). But they are antiques now.

This is off-topic, for which I apologize, but Troubleenuf, can you inform us who was your instructor who recommended you receive the citations you've received and the reason(s) he/she made the recommendations.


BTW, I'd like to congratulate you and Miguksaram on your citations.

 

[miguksaram]

BTW, I'd like to congratulate you and Miguksaram on your citations.

Thank you. The trip was very interesting. I have been to Korea 10 times (this being my 10th), for business, visiting family and now semi-business with the USTC. This was a bit more political in the feel of it. The best part was meeting so many people from all over the world and just hanging out discussing TKD and martial arts in general as well as everyday life and just taking in some beers and laughs.

 

[d1jinx]

"que music....

guess who's back, back again. Kim is back, tell a friend.....

http://www.mookas.us/media_view.asp?news_no=1624

 

[IcemanSK]

"que music....

guess who's back, back again. Kim is back, tell a friend.....

http://www.mookas.us/media_view.asp?news_no=1624

Well, there goes the neighborhood.

 

[terryl965]

"que music....

guess who's back, back again. Kim is back, tell a friend.....

http://www.mookas.us/media_view.asp?news_no=1624

Well what did you expext someone else?

 

[IcemanSK]

Well what did you expext someone else?

Well yes, I figured that they would have learned from their mistakes. I was wrong.:uhyeah:

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

According to this, he was convicted of embezzling from the WTF.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/11/sports/othersports/11olympics.html?_r=1

Are they out of their minds?

Daniel

 

[Archtkd]

I hope this doesn’t make me the party spoiler here, but should we be surprised that the Korean government is interested in taking over or shaking up the Kukkiwon? Would the Korean Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism really want the old Kukkiwon guard to be anywhere near the proposed $185 million Taekwondo Park in Muju? This, at a time when the Korean government is using Taekwondo as one of its main diplomatic tools and promoting it as a major cultural symbol, with added expectation that the new park will draw millions of more tourists? I doubt it.

In a broader context, the Taekwondo Park appears to have become the backdrop over which a major WTF Taekwondo schism could occur if some powerful force does not step in. The old guard (rapidly aging old Kwan loyalists, politicians and gangsters) who’ve always sought total control of the Kukkiwon and its money are standing their ground. The younger Taekwondo academics/bureaucrats at the WTF are seeking global credibility and dominance over Taekwondo. Meanwhile, the real Taekwondo grandmasters at the Kukkiwon and dojangs in Korea and overseas are deeply frustrated and also want a piece of the action.

While Kim Un-Yong’s story is well known, serious questions linger about whether Seung-Wan Lee (sometimes spelled Sang-Wan Lee, Seng-Wan Lee, and Seung-Hwan Lee), should or will ever become a permanent Kukkiwon president. Is his “acting” capacity even real? Like Kim, Grandmaster Lee has tons of negative baggage, which should not sit well with Kukkiwon supporters. The published accounts of his brushes with Korean law include:

1. Grand master Lee was arrested and later imprisoned for using strong arm tactics to break up an opposition pro-democracy political rally in 1987.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3293927.stm

2. In 2000, Grandmaster Lee, then vice president of the Korea Taekwondo Association (KTA) was accused of embezzlement, a charge that derailed his chances of running for KTA’s presidency. http://www.mookas.us/media_view.asp?news_no=529

3. In 2003 Grandmaster Lee, then an adviser of the KTA, was indicted for allegedly using violence to influence KTA election and obtaining bribes from Taekwondo equipment manufacturers. He was convicted for those crimes in 2004. http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2068549

 

[Laurentkd]

According to this, he was convicted of embezzling from the WTF.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/11/sports/othersports/11olympics.html?_r=1

Are they out of their minds?

Daniel

Ok, I could be TOTALY wrong about this, but I am sure I read somewhere that now "they" think he didnt actually do the embezzling but was actually just the guy that had to take the fall, and that it was a political game.
Of course, that statement itself could just have been a political response.
Anyone know anything about this?

 

[Archtkd]

Ok, I could be TOTALY wrong about this, but I am sure I read somewhere that now "they" think he didnt actually do the embezzling but was actually just the guy that had to take the fall, and that it was a political game.
Of course, that statement itself could just have been a political response.
Anyone know anything about this?

I think it's safe to assume politics was always part of Kim Un-Yong's rise and downfall, but the fact is that he was found guilty of embezzlement in Korea and sentenced to two years of imprisonment. His conviction was upheld in two appeals to higher Korean courts. The details can be found here: http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_913.pdf

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Ok, I could be TOTALY wrong about this, but I am sure I read somewhere that now "they" think he didnt actually do the embezzling but was actually just the guy that had to take the fall, and that it was a political game.
Of course, that statement itself could just have been a political response.
Anyone know anything about this?

I stuck with saying that he was convicted because I am aware that he maintains his innocence.

My 'are they out of their minds' comment is in regards to naming a convicted embezzler as president of your organization. Whether or not the charge was politically motivated, the conviction still makes him a liability.

Such an appointment invites suspicion and negative attention due to its connection to multiple scandals.

Daniel

 

[IcemanSK]

It says the position is "Honorary." On what planet does a convicted embezzler get an honorary position from the organization from which he embezzled?!

:barf:

 

[troubleenuf]

Obviously they should have checked some more floorboards in his house. He obviously had enough money left to buy his way back in.

It says the position is "Honorary." On what planet does a convicted embezzler get an honorary position from the organization from which he embezzled?!

:barf: