Irregularities in Kukkiwon Dan graduation exam

[Markku P]

Any information or comments?

"The Kukkiwon has been caught up in a controversy due to an apparent case of favoritism towards a Kukkiwon employee during the Dan graduation exam process.
A Korean Taekwondo media informed that “it has been discovered that a Kukkiwon employee and 8 other candidates passed the Dan graduation exam that the Kukkiwon carried out on June 11th even they submitted their thesis after the submission deadline.”


http://wtkmedia.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=28


/Markku P

 

[terryl965]

I love it more bad news,man TKD is killing itself. With the KKW, WTF instructor that cheat, lie and steal. All I can say is do we have any Intrigity left at all.

 

[Cyriacus]

I love it more bad news,man TKD is killing itself. With the KKW, WTF instructor that cheat, lie and steal. All I can say is do we have any Intrigity left at all.

As practitioners, of course. There just needs to be some restructuring, i think.

KKW>WTF>Taekwondo. Is the current chain.
The chain SHOULD be; Taekwondo>WTF>KKW.

As in, right now, The Kukkiwon runs the standards of the WTF, and the WTF teaches Taekwondo.
It should be about Taekwondo, which so happens to be taught by the WTF, and the Kukkiwon should just be a body that makes sure everyone is up to scratch, rather than trying to run the Martial Art like a company.

Im sure the end part could be phrased better, but i think you understand what im communicating.

 

[oftheherd1]

I love it more bad news,man TKD is killing itself. With the KKW, WTF instructor that cheat, lie and steal. All I can say is do we have any Intrigity left at all.

Seemingly this comes from contention between two main Taekwondo factions, but that doesn't excuse any alleged wrong doing either. Sad no matter the cause. It doesn't put Taekwondo nor other MA, in a good light.

 

[andyjeffries]

This hardly seems like the end of the world to me. They passed the physical test and I assume their theses were fine, but the paperwork was in a bit late. A need to whine about it, really?

 

[miguksaram]

As practitioners, of course. There just needs to be some restructuring, i think.

KKW>WTF>Taekwondo. Is the current chain.
The chain SHOULD be; Taekwondo>WTF>KKW.

As in, right now, The Kukkiwon runs the standards of the WTF, and the WTF teaches Taekwondo.
It should be about Taekwondo, which so happens to be taught by the WTF, and the Kukkiwon should just be a body that makes sure everyone is up to scratch, rather than trying to run the Martial Art like a company.

Im sure the end part could be phrased better, but i think you understand what im communicating.

Ummm...no WTF does not teach TKD. The only thing WTF does is establish all rules and regulations dealing with the sports aspect of TKD. KKW sets the basic standards for gup and dan curriculum. The problem has nothing to do with the curriculum or standards that KKW has in place. The problem lies in the administration for allowing this to happen.

 

[Cyriacus]

Ummm...no WTF does not teach TKD. The only thing WTF does is establish all rules and regulations dealing with the sports aspect of TKD. KKW sets the basic standards for gup and dan curriculum. The problem has nothing to do with the curriculum or standards that KKW has in place. The problem lies in the administration for allowing this to happen.

And which of the two is said Administration a part of?

Also, calm down marginally. If im not mistaken, WTF TKD Dojangs fly WTF Flags, it is evidently their Conceptual Basis. And as i said, the KKW sets the Standards, which is exactly what you said. And if it was the Administration of the Dojangs, that likely chains upwards.

What we both said were very similar things - This is likely a miscommunication. My point was is that its becoming too much about Politics, and Money, and whathaveyou, and less about Taekwondo. And squabbles like this kind of depict that from both sides of the fence. On the one hand, the board of Standards let in some late Theses. On the other hand, people are making a big deal about it, when they did in fact pass, they were just late submitting one part of it. Which may be bad, but...

 

[Kong Soo Do]

This hardly seems like the end of the world to me. They passed the physical test and I assume their theses were fine, but the paperwork was in a bit late. A need to whine about it, really?

Andy, I agree that this situation in-and-of-itself isn't a huge deal. But, when compiled with other minor (and let's be honest, some major things) it gets to be 'death by a thousand cuts'.

 

[Markku P]

My point was is that its becoming too much about Politics, and Money,

It's has always been about about money,power and politics with ITF,WTF and Kukkiwon..

/Markku P

 

[Markku P]

This hardly seems like the end of the world to me. They passed the physical test and I assume their theses were fine, but the paperwork was in a bit late. A need to whine about it, really?

Not too big deal..But..Kukkiwon has been very strict with others and then in another cases don't follow their own rules..

/Markku P.

 

[Cyriacus]

It's has always been about about money,power and politics with ITF,WTF and Kukkiwon..

/Markku P

Its an interesting thing really. I rarely hear about Money/Power play in either the ITF or WTF - Its mostly the Kukkiwon or the numerous groups of Blackbelts. Which is why i said before, that it should be more about TKD, and less about whatever else. I dont even mind the division of the Organisations, that doesnt really matter, since theyre at least still teaching the Art. Its the needless hard feelings that can sometimes be present that i dont get.

 

[andyjeffries]

Not too big deal..But..Kukkiwon has been very strict with others and then in another cases don't follow their own rules.

I've actually understood the Kukkiwon to be generally quite lenient, providing people have the time in grade and are good enough then they are generally very helpful and relaxed about most things.

I believe the Kukkiwon to be an organisation that cares more about helping people grow in Taekwondo than following every rule to the letter (although certain things are harder to bend than others).

 

[andyjeffries]

Andy, I agree that this situation in-and-of-itself isn't a huge deal. But, when compiled with other minor (and let's be honest, some major things) it gets to be 'death by a thousand cuts'.

I would say the same could be true of many organisations though - if they get large enough, they get enough scrutiny and the same is true. Particularly if you view the Kukkiwon as I do - for example, consider it an organisation that wants to help people grow as Taekwondoin, rather than an iron-fisted organisation out to restrict/control the world. If you view it in that vein, most of the stuff they do is easily explainable/understandable.

 

[terryl965]

No it is not the end of the world but we really do not need anymore bad news about any wrong doings. My point is simple lets do things the right way so all this cutting corners and stuff can go away.

 

[andyjeffries]

If im not mistaken, WTF TKD Dojangs fly WTF Flags, it is evidently their Conceptual Basis. And as i said, the KKW sets the Standards (Kukkiwon Standard WTF TKD is the term, i believe. If im wrong about that, forgive me.), which is exactly what you said.

I would say that a lot of people used to. I remember being younger and considering myself a 1st Dan WTF Taekwondo black belt. Then as things have progressed in the world (and matured in myself no doubt) I consider myself a Kukki-Taekwondoin first and foremost - WTF is a set of sparring rules.

On the one hand, the board of Standards let in some late Theses. On the other hand, people are making a big deal about it, when they did in fact pass, they were just late submitting one part of it. Which may be bad, but...

...there are a lot worse things in the world, right?

I've said it a couple of times in this thread, but if your glasses are coloured towards "they generally try to help people, how could this situation be seen in that light?" then it makes lots of sense and is no big deal. If you think in terms of "the Kukkiwon is letting standards slip around the world, they're failing to even follow their own procedures, how bad are things?" then you're going to see it completely differently.

 

[Cyriacus]

I would say that a lot of people used to. I remember being younger and considering myself a 1st Dan WTF Taekwondo black belt. Then as things have progressed in the world (and matured in myself no doubt) I consider myself a Kukki-Taekwondoin first and foremost - WTF is a set of sparring rules.



...there are a lot worse things in the world, right?

I've said it a couple of times in this thread, but if your glasses are coloured towards "they generally try to help people, how could this situation be seen in that light?" then it makes lots of sense and is no big deal. If you think in terms of "the Kukkiwon is letting standards slip around the world, they're failing to even follow their own procedures, how bad are things?" then you're going to see it completely differently.

Thats pretty much my opinion. Their intentions are good, but they manage to generate so much controversy and negativity that i almost wonder whats going on. Hence my other comment about Hard Feelings between Organisations. In fact, most of the Political Squabbles and othersuch within and between groups is senseless. Its almost like they do it because theye bored.

 

[msmitht]

Wow. I knew a guy that failed his 5th dann exam, in korea, for finishing korryo one meter from where he started. If we are talking about a day or two for the paperwork to get filed that is one thing. I do agree that it is an ugly black eye for al kkw tkd.

 

[andyjeffries]

Wow. I knew a guy that failed his 5th dann exam, in korea, for finishing korryo one meter from where he started.

Really?! I'd be highly surprised if he was *perfect* aside from that, that they'd fail him for a single fault. Or was there more to it...

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I would say the same could be true of many organisations though - if they get large enough, they get enough scrutiny and the same is true. Particularly if you view the Kukkiwon as I do - for example, consider it an organisation that wants to help people grow as Taekwondoin, rather than an iron-fisted organisation out to restrict/control the world. If you view it in that vein, most of the stuff they do is easily explainable/understandable.

I understand where you're coming from Andy. But looking at it from and overall perspective, one of the answers I seem to get when I ask, 'why do you want a KKW cert' is that it is nice to belong to an organization that has set standards. But then I look at the 'overall' and have to ask, 'what standards are we talking about'? I think that is a legitimate question. Is it a standard where there is a definitive outline that has to be accomplished for each rank...or one in which someone can obtain up to 3rd Dan without actually having to show up for the test? Oh, I know that the 'paperwork' has to be in order and someone has vouched for the 'tester'. But that opens the door for abuse. Is it the standard that you absolutely can't skip rank...or the one which allows you to skip up to 6 Dan ranks as long as you pay for the highest three (and do two forms and spar for two minutes to make master'? Is it the standard where the KKW only wants to help the TKD practitioner...or the standard where the higher ups skip town with the money sent it? Is it the strict standards where (as mentioned above) a person can fail a test for being one meter away from the starting position...or the standard where you take off from one local as a blue belt and land as a master? Yes, I know that the KKW 'can't' check on everyone for validity, but then if their name is on the cert...perhaps they should take a more iron approach to prevent things like the topic of this thread. I know that the KKW isn't the only org with issues. I know that TKD isn't the only art with issues. But man, it sure does take the number one position in the spotlight.

I don't mean to be a KKW-basher, but these things add up and bear honest discussion. I will say this, it doesn't reflect on the honest TKD instructor/practitioner's efforts...but it doesn't exactly help them either. Just my two cents YMMV.

 

[miguksaram]

And which of the two is said Administration a part of?

Also, calm down marginally. If im not mistaken, WTF TKD Dojangs fly WTF Flags, it is evidently their Conceptual Basis. And as i said, the KKW sets the Standards, which is exactly what you said. And if it was the Administration of the Dojangs, that likely chains upwards.

What we both said were very similar things - This is likely a miscommunication. My point was is that its becoming too much about Politics, and Money, and whathaveyou, and less about Taekwondo. And squabbles like this kind of depict that from both sides of the fence. On the one hand, the board of Standards let in some late Theses. On the other hand, people are making a big deal about it, when they did in fact pass, they were just late submitting one part of it. Which may be bad, but...

First off, the problem with writing is no human expressions to back up what you are saying. So trust me when I say I was not at least bit upset, excited, angered or anything of the sort when I posted. You will know when I reach one of those states in my replies.

What you said, and what I took exception to was "WTF teaches Taekwondo". WTF does not teach TKD. And schools may fly the flag but is simply saying that they are part of that organization. Now there is a HUGE misconception out amongst some of those schools that WTF is standard for TKD. That is why you see people who claim they WTF certified black belts. KKW is the teaching system, WTF is the sport rules and regulations system. That is all I was trying to say.