Skip Dan Promotion with Kukkiwon 2025

[mrgnrs]

Hi all, I was trying to find anyone in Australia who has successfully been through the "Skip Dan" Application process with Kukkiwon effectively skipping a blackbelt Dan under special circumstances?
I am seeking some insight as to how the process was for you and if it was done directly with Korea or via TKD Australia etc.
Any insight would be helpful as there is currently mixed messaging on this.
FYI - I am seeking a 1st to 3rd Dan application due to many years of training and having a higher Dan under Jidokwan.
Thanks.

 

[HighKick1]

Hi all, I was trying to find anyone in Australia who has successfully been through the "Skip Dan" Application process with Kukkiwon effectively skipping a blackbelt Dan under special circumstances?
I am seeking some insight as to how the process was for you and if it was done directly with Korea or via TKD Australia etc.
Any insight would be helpful as there is currently mixed messaging on this.
FYI - I am seeking a 1st to 3rd Dan application due to many years of training and having a higher Dan under Jidokwan.
Thanks.

This was about 20-years ago (cirac'24, '25). My very connected GM suggested I skip Dan from 4th to 6th because I had not tested since 1996 due to injuries. After much consideration, I declined but the process back then went Fully through your GM and straight to Korea.
Yours is a different issue and you may be able to navigate it yourself directly with KKW but be ready for a heavy paper battle. There are pretty good instructions for skip Dans on the KKW and TCON sites for a starting point. My best suggestion it to find an advocate within the system.

 

[mrgnrs]

Thanks for the feedback, definitely seems to be a lot of paperwork involved and videos which is fine. I am just getting the runaround between KKW and TKD Australia as to who actually wants to take responsibility for accepting and processing this application. Difficult to navigate the politics unfortunately and was hoping someone had done this recently and could share their story as the process has changed over the years.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Thanks for the feedback, definitely seems to be a lot of paperwork involved and videos which is fine. I am just getting the runaround between KKW and TKD Australia as to who actually wants to take responsibility for accepting and processing this application. Difficult to navigate the politics unfortunately and was hoping someone had done this recently and could share their story as the process has changed over the years.

A shame that this happens in some TMA and the bureaucracy hinders the art and the students.

 

[HighKick1]

Thanks for the feedback, definitely seems to be a lot of paperwork involved and videos which is fine. I am just getting the runaround between KKW and TKD Australia as to who actually wants to take responsibility for accepting and processing this application. Difficult to navigate the politics unfortunately and was hoping someone had done this recently and could share their story as the process has changed over the years.

What is your current student/instructor relationship? Do you or your instructor have a direct connection with KKW?
Do you country like the USA that uses TCON or similar? There is a process to request through the system. But it is there for a reason. It takes a VERY delicate and special set of circumstances to skip a Dan. Else, everyone would be doing it.
To give you a personal example: I had tested to 4th Dan in 1994 after a very successful '88 Olympic run making it to the last round of the trials. I was already a 2-school owner and had been teaching since 1984. I had/have a very good relationship with my Full Korean GM (who was very plugged into KKW).
In 2001 I was hit head-on by a dump truck. Whole other story but it put my training, teaching, work, and life on hold for many years. Had to re-learn how to walk and talk among many other things. Without the help of a great family, I don't know where I would be.
When I finally got back to training everything was different for me because I had/have several deficits (which I will not go into). Being one of the higher ranking students in our Stateside system my GM suggested me skip testing to 6th Dan. I thought on this for a long time and decided against it for several personal reasons.

What I suggest you do is really, really get All your verifiable, certifiable documentation in order. Get with Jidokwan (is there one main body in Australia?) and have them contact KKW as well as your GM and yourself. You need to build a component of proof that it is justifiable to prove you are worthy (yes, I said worthy) or the skip. It is a VERY big deal since it puts you one belt away from 4th Dan which is where a lot changes happen in regards to the KWW Dan system.
Remember, TKD is very, very fractured or more accurate, diverse with many styles(think Kwans, KKW, ITF, etc...). Belts are (usually) honored across styles, but are not always automatically 'equal'. You have to prove your case. First.

Believe me when I tell you there is no 'magic bullet' or quick way to do this. It takes committed time and effort, and I am certain you will at least have to take the 3rd Dan test, likely via video if Australia KKW is like the USA.
Research the system. Figure out who and where to go in Australia.
Remember, it never hurts to ask the 'stupid questions', so get on the KKW site and ask (yes, it is difficult), get on TCON and ask. But most importantly, get within your system and get plugged in with the higher ups and get them to help. Believe me, you are not the first person to try this, so you have to keep digging.
There is an apt, old saying that is ripe with chauvinism but it is fitting here:
"If it was easy, we would have little girls doing it for half the price".

 

[mrgnrs]

What is your current student/instructor relationship? Do you or your instructor have a direct connection with KKW?
Do you country like the USA that uses TCON or similar? There is a process to request through the system. But it is there for a reason. It takes a VERY delicate and special set of circumstances to skip a Dan. Else, everyone would be doing it.
To give you a personal example: I had tested to 4th Dan in 1994 after a very successful '88 Olympic run making it to the last round of the trials. I was already a 2-school owner and had been teaching since 1984. I had/have a very good relationship with my Full Korean GM (who was very plugged into KKW).
In 2001 I was hit head-on by a dump truck. Whole other story but it put my training, teaching, work, and life on hold for many years. Had to re-learn how to walk and talk among many other things. Without the help of a great family, I don't know where I would be.
When I finally got back to training everything was different for me because I had/have several deficits (which I will not go into). Being one of the higher ranking students in our Stateside system my GM suggested me skip testing to 6th Dan. I thought on this for a long time and decided against it for several personal reasons.

What I suggest you do is really, really get All your verifiable, certifiable documentation in order. Get with Jidokwan (is there one main body in Australia?) and have them contact KKW as well as your GM and yourself. You need to build a component of proof that it is justifiable to prove you are worthy (yes, I said worthy) or the skip. It is a VERY big deal since it puts you one belt away from 4th Dan which is where a lot of changes happen in regard to the KWW Dan system.
Remember, TKD is very, very fractured or more accurate, diverse with many styles(think Kwans, KKW, ITF, etc...). Belts are (usually) honored across styles, but are not always automatically 'equal'. You have to prove your case. First.

Believe me when I tell you there is no 'magic bullet' or quick way to do this. It takes committed time and effort, and I am certain you will at least have to take the 3rd Dan test, likely via video if Australia KKW is like the USA.
Research the system. Figure out who and where to go in Australia.
Remember, it never hurts to ask the 'stupid questions', so get on the KKW site and ask (yes, it is difficult), get on TCON and ask. But most importantly, get within your system and get plugged in with the higher ups and get them to help. Believe me, you are not the first person to try this, so you have to keep digging.
There is an apt, old saying that is ripe with chauvinism but it is fitting here:
"If it was easy, we would have little girls doing it for half the price".

This is great insight and very much appreciated feedback, thank you.
You are correct in how fractured and confusing this has become. I am running two paths in parallel for this request. One through my new school/Master via TKD Australia and one with the GM who originally signed off on my Jidokwan certificates directly with KKW. Both are getting very different answers, which is frustrating as it seems that KKW are pushing this process/decision back down to TKD Australia and they are pushing it back up to KKW (just doing circles). I believe my case is very strong and I am prepared to undergo a full grading in December to 3rd Dan, however I need the permission from either TKD Aus or KKW to officially do this or I am stuck only grading to 2nd Dan KKW. Currently I go nearly a month between minor updates from either side, as neither governing body seems to want to make a call on this. I continue to persevere and will not give up, as I agree it must be justified and earned however, I know that with almost two decades of active training and teaching, despite my time off for mostly medical reasons, I can justify the time, skill and competence of a 3rd Dan which is the level I held for 3 years prior to pausing my training in 2010 having acheived my 1st Dan (KKW) in 2001. The issue is that my master at the time, who was a high dan in both Jidokwan/KKW made the decision to grade under JDK beyond 1st Dan. I did have the option to pay extra for both certificates at the time but being a poor student and not understanding the consequences at the time, here I am........ at 46 now, I really do not want to lose 4 years of effort as this would be devastating. Thank you again.

 

[Flying Crane]

This is great insight and very much appreciated feedback, thank you.
You are correct in how fractured and confusing this has become. I am running two paths in parallel for this request. One through my new school/Master via TKD Australia and one with the GM who originally signed off on my Jidokwan certificates directly with KKW. Both are getting very different answers, which is frustrating as it seems that KKW are pushing this process/decision back down to TKD Australia and they are pushing it back up to KKW (just doing circles). I believe my case is very strong and I am prepared to undergo a full grading in December to 3rd Dan, however I need the permission from either TKD Aus or KKW to officially do this or I am stuck only grading to 2nd Dan KKW. Currently I go nearly a month between minor updates from either side, as neither governing body seems to want to make a call on this. I continue to persevere and will not give up, as I agree it must be justified and earned however, I know that with almost two decades of active training and teaching, despite my time off for mostly medical reasons, I can justify the time, skill and competence of a 3rd Dan which is the level I held for 3 years prior to pausing my training in 2010 having acheived my 1st Dan (KKW) in 2001. The issue is that my master at the time, who was a high dan in both Jidokwan/KKW made the decision to grade under JDK beyond 1st Dan. I did have the option to pay extra for both certificates at the time but being a poor student and not understanding the consequences at the time, here I am........ at 46 now, I really do not want to lose 4 years of effort as this would be devastating. Thank you again.

You might lose four years simply chasing after an answer. Test for 2nd Dan. If you really are at third Dan level, it should be obvious and you ought to be able to test soon for third.

Personally, I hate the politics of all this stuff and am happy to not be involved in it. But I also raise an eyebrow at skipping Dan grades, especially if it is the candidate pushing for it and not an instructor recommending it.

That’s my input as an outsider.

 

[mrgnrs]

You might lose four years simply chasing after an answer. Test for 2nd Dan. If you really are at third Dan level, it should be obvious and you ought to be able to test soon for third.

Personally, I hate the politics of all this stuff and am happy to not be involved in it. But I also raise an eyebrow at skipping Dan grades, especially if it is the candidate pushing for it and not an instructor recommending it.

That’s my input as an outsider.

you might be right about how long it will take lol.
Unfortunately, with KKW rules I cannot grade for 3rd dan until I hold second for a min 2 years putting near 50yo to just get back to where I was, then start the 3-4 year journey to 4th.. It should not be so complicated, given how terrible so many 3-4th Dans actually are, with far less experience but such is the fairness of life, I guess. Cheers.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Unfortunately, with KKW rules I cannot grade for 3rd dan until I hold second for a min 2 years putting near 50yo to just get back to where I was, then start the 3-4 year journey to 4th.. It should not be so complicated, given how terrible so many 3-4th Dans actually are, with far less experience but such is the fairness of life, I guess. Cheers.

Personally, I hate the politics of all this stuff and am happy to not be involved in it. But I also raise an eyebrow at skipping Dan grades, especially if it is the candidate pushing for it and not an instructor recommending it.

Such is the result of draconian organizational highly structured TMA. IMO it was not meant to be this way. This removes the master-disciple relationship that was the core of early TMA where each student was treated according to their individual knowledge and skills and was judged by their teacher. Some teachers cannot be trusted to promote responsibly but I think this is a symptom of cookie-cutter commercial modern TMA.

I skipped 4th dan, but then I had 40 years behind me during which time I kept my skills up. Still, it was unexpected as I'd have been happy with 4th. My renown sensei with whom I studied privately with for a demanding 2 years prior to testing recognized my level being on par with many 5th and 6th dans. This was done with the blessing of my style's Okinawan master. I'm so glad and fortunate to be a product of the "old ways" of TMA. Sometimes it's good to be the dinosaur.

 

[mrgnrs]

Such is the result of draconian organizational highly structured TMA. IMO it was not meant to be this way. This removes the master-disciple relationship that was the core of early TMA where each student was treated according to their individual knowledge and skills and was judged by their teacher. Some teachers cannot be trusted to promote responsibly but I think this is a symptom of cookie-cutter commercial modern TMA.

I skipped 4th dan, but then I had 40 years behind me during which time I kept my skills up. Still, it was unexpected as I'd have been happy with 4th. My renown sensei with whom I studied privately with for a demanding 2 years prior to testing recognized my level being on par with many 5th and 6th dans. This was done with the blessing of my style's Okinawan master. I'm so glad and fortunate to be a product of the "old ways" of TMA. Sometimes it's good to be the dinosaur.

You make a great point... growing up, starting my training as a child in the late 80's it felt like TKD was just me, my training mates and my master. The boarder organisation seemed to have little to do with decisions made by my teachers. This felt consistent up until I reached 3rd Dan early 2000's. After taking time away for medical reasons I come back to an organisation that is so rules based it seems that all the power and discretion is removed from good masters, diluting what once seemed to me such a beautiful artform and discipline. Good form has also made way for competition-based technique which is great for winning points but has no practical use in the real world, looking and feeling so sloppy. I guess I too am a dinosaur sometimes feeling like the old man screaming at those damn kids to get off his beautiful lawn lol...... I suspect most martial arts has become this way to a degree as the business becomes greater than the art. I am saddened to think where this trend will lead in future. Cheers to those who practiced in the good times!

 

[HighKick1]

This is great insight and very much appreciated feedback, thank you.
You are correct in how fractured and confusing this has become. I am running two paths in parallel for this request. One through my new school/Master via TKD Australia and one with the GM who originally signed off on my Jidokwan certificates directly with KKW. Both are getting very different answers, which is frustrating as it seems that KKW are pushing this process/decision back down to TKD Australia and they are pushing it back up to KKW (just doing circles). I believe my case is very strong and I am prepared to undergo a full grading in December to 3rd Dan, however I need the permission from either TKD Aus or KKW to officially do this or I am stuck only grading to 2nd Dan KKW. Currently I go nearly a month between minor updates from either side, as neither governing body seems to want to make a call on this. I continue to persevere and will not give up, as I agree it must be justified and earned however, I know that with almost two decades of active training and teaching, despite my time off for mostly medical reasons, I can justify the time, skill and competence of a 3rd Dan which is the level I held for 3 years prior to pausing my training in 2010 having acheived my 1st Dan (KKW) in 2001. The issue is that my master at the time, who was a high dan in both Jidokwan/KKW made the decision to grade under JDK beyond 1st Dan. I did have the option to pay extra for both certificates at the time but being a poor student and not understanding the consequences at the time, here I am........ at 46 now, I really do not want to lose 4 years of effort as this would be devastating. Thank you again.

I cannot speak specifically to anyone's situation and do Not know anything about navigating AKD Aus. And you really, really need to research the KKW requirements, but I am of the understanding that it takes more than a long break and rank in another style to skip-test. I could be very wrong, however.

That said, why is a KKW certificate so much more valuable to you than a JDK certificate?

 

[Flying Crane]

you might be right about how long it will take lol.
Unfortunately, with KKW rules I cannot grade for 3rd dan until I hold second for a min 2 years putting near 50yo to just get back to where I was, then start the 3-4 year journey to 4th.. It should not be so complicated, given how terrible so many 3-4th Dans actually are, with far less experience but such is the fairness of life, I guess. Cheers.

If there is a way to bend the rules to skip a Dan grade, is there not a way to bend the rules and test for the next Dan more quickly than outlined in the rules? It seems to me that would be bending the rules less severely than skipping a Dan altogether.

 

[Flying Crane]

That said, why is a KKW certificate so much more valuable to you than a JDK certificate?

This is a good question.

 

[HighKick1]

If there is a way to bend the rules to skip a Dan grade, is there not a way to bend the rules and test for the next Dan more quickly than outlined in the rules? It seems to me that would be bending the rules less severely than skipping a Dan altogether.

Not within KKW that I am aware of. I do see it at the Kwan level organizations.
For example, I tested for my 8th Dan MDK 6-years after starting back from my almost 12-year break in training after my accident (it had been 4-years since my last test pre-accident). I was more than ready and the Powers That Be understood the situation. But it really has more to do with what you have done as an instructor/school owner to grow your school/system/style at the higher ranks.

 

[HighKick1]

you might be right about how long it will take lol.
Unfortunately, with KKW rules I cannot grade for 3rd dan until I hold second for a min 2 years putting near 50yo to just get back to where I was, then start the 3-4 year journey to 4th.. It should not be so complicated, given how terrible so many 3-4th Dans actually are, with far less experience but such is the fairness of life, I guess. Cheers.

To compound your conundrum, most people have to take the Master Class before/when testing for 4th Dan.

 

[mrgnrs]

I cannot speak specifically to anyone's situation and do Not know anything about navigating AKD Aus. And you really, really need to research the KKW requirements, but I am of the understanding that it takes more than a long break and rank in another style to skip-test. I could be very wrong, however.

That said, why is a KKW certificate so much more valuable to you than a JDK certificate?

This is a fair question and I can only speak to my local situation. In Australia JDK is much more dispersed and individual with no local governing body. There a far fewer Dojang options and across the county it is more at the acceptance of the master as to accept you into their school at that level. KKW is very well established here with many school options (especially for Kids) with an internationally recognized belt level wherever you go. I understand this is subjective for our situation it is very restrictive to not have KKW certification.

 

[mrgnrs]

If there is a way to bend the rules to skip a Dan grade, is there not a way to bend the rules and test for the next Dan more quickly than outlined in the rules? It seems to me that would be bending the rules less severely than skipping a Dan altogether.

This is a very good point and my secondary option if the Skip Dan fails. I have a Grading booked for December this year and am awaiting the decision on the Skip dan to go from 1-3 Dan but worse case I will grade officially to 2nd. I will then petition to be allowed to shorten the 2 year mandatory interval and grade to 3rd Dan within 12 months. This may ultimately be easier than SD and only loose me 2 years as opposed to 4.

 

[HighKick1]

This is a fair question and I can only speak to my local situation. In Australia JDK is much more dispersed and individual with no local governing body. There a far fewer Dojang options and across the county it is more at the acceptance of the master as to accept you into their school at that level. KKW is very well established here with many school options (especially for Kids) with an internationally recognized belt level wherever you go. I understand this is subjective for our situation it is very restrictive to not have KKW certification.

It is similar in the states, but there are a couple of somewhat established bodies outside of KKW that swing a pretty big hammer.
Honestly, unless you see upper level competition, travel or moving in your future, it is not something to worry all that much about. If JDK is more prevalent in your local area, that would be an influence to me.
How connected is your local school to the JDK governing body?