Chuck Norris and TKD

[DuneViking]

Michigan,


We do all know that is not the case...I can hold Kukkiwon certification based on an ITF Dan Certificate (up to third dan), and I dont know a single Tae-Geuk hyung!

Most are fairly reciprical in that since. Also, Chuck Norris holds ranks from both the Kukkiwon and the ITF, however has promoted himself as a lifeling TSD practitioner and not he creator of his own art.

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

FYI,

Chuck Norris, Founder of Chun Kuk Do, www.ufaf.org

 

[Spookey]

Dune Viking,


Thanks for correcting my key error...(early morning post)!

It was intended to read "and now is creator of his own art"...DUH!

Thanks for the correction...

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

 

[Mithios]

Miles,

From what i have been able to find out, Mr. Norris does not issue Kukkiwon, or I.T.F. rank, and just conciders his political, and honorary.

 

[terryl965]

No Mr. Norris does not issue Kukkiwon certificates, he feels he is in no position to do that, there are more qualified people in the world. So I say he is a most upstanding gentleman in that respect.

 

[Gemini]

No reflection on Mr. Norris intended here, but to me that stinks. How can the Kukkiwon justify awarding ranking to a non TKD practicioner? I can imagine that TKD practicioners that can't afford or find someone to sign off on their application for promotion would be kind of ticked off big time.

My previous SaBumNim told me he was a converted TSD Master. As TKD really started taking off, there weren't enough masters so TSD masters became TKD masters of the same rank. Pretty much the same thing. No?

 

[Miles]

My previous SaBumNim told me he was a converted TSD Master. As TKD really started taking off, there weren't enough masters so TSD masters became TKD masters of the same rank. Pretty much the same thing. No?

Yes, I have spoken with a Korean GM who was a highly ranked TSDin and he was "cross-ranked" by the Kukkiwon very early on-like 1974 or 1975. His school does no TSD, just Kukki-TKD (and very well, BTW).

Miles

 

[AmericanTangSooDo]

Just saw an interesting bit of information and looking for verification. The movie Missing In Action was being promo'ed when the announcer stated that Mr. Norris was the first westerner ever to be graded as an 8th Dan in TKD. I was under the assumption that he was a TSD practicioner not TKD. Anybody have any information on the subject?

Chuck Norris was never a real black belt or student of Taekwondo. He holds black belts in Tang Soo Do, Judo, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He was simply awarded the that 8th dan but never actually earned it.

And no he was not the first westerner to be promoted to 8th dan in TKD. The first westerners promoted were Charles Sereff and Edward Sell who received that honor years before Norris.

 

[Svart]

Whats the go with all the thread rez's? Nearly every thread active atm is from years ago.

 

[arnisador]

Whats the go with all the thread rez's? Nearly every thread active atm is from years ago.

What's wrong with that? There's some good stuff buried around here!

 

[granfire]

Pft, Chuck Norris invented TKD, as of all other Martial Arts, excep Jeet Kun Do...

 

[jim777]

Pft, Chuck Norris invented TKD, as of all other Martial Arts, excep Jeet Kun Do...

Yes, and he did it while counting to infinity twice, and standing on no feet!

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

How do you get an honorary 8th Dan? Either you are 8th Dan or you are not.

It's like in academia, people are granted honorary doctorate degrees all the time. Did these people actually do all of the hard work and earn the true, earned right and knowledge to be called, and have the title of doctor added to their names? No, not really really, but they still have that honorary title. They're still drs, or high BBs in this case, but as the word says, it just an honorary title that's all. It's really an award for the advancement they've done of a certain discipline or the body of work they've done.

 

[Twin Fist]

How do you get an honorary 8th Dan? Either you are 8th Dan or you are not.

All 8th dans are honorary

 

[Laurentkd]

All 8th dans are honorary

What do you mean?

 

[Miles]

All 8th dans are honorary

That's a pretty sweeping statement. I disagree. I had the privilege of attending an 8th dan test. It was not a cake walk.

 

[Kwanjang]

No, though I have friends who are current and former students of GM Sell.

Miles

I thought Chuck was Tang Soo Do 8th dan.

(Off topic)

I am a Student of GM Sell. He is recognized 9th Dan by both the WCDK and the Kukkiwon. He is a direct student of GM Uhm and Gm Park Hae Man. He took a physical test Sept. 10th, 2001 for his 9th dan (he was 61) at the Kukkiwon--a day before our national tragedy. This past week Gm Sell was summoned to Korea to help celebrate taekwondo day. The latest e-mail to all his senior Instructors says ther are meetings going on to help reform our art. It has been my expierience beeing his student for the pas 10 years he and his wife GM Brenda Sell 8th Dan, have exceeded my expectations. They are super great people. He is always there for me. In my opinion, a true Grandmaster in every sense of the word.

 

[Twin Fist]

What do you mean?

real simple.So simple, most people dont realize or have forgotten.

1. if you are young enough to do a physical test for 8th dan, something aint right to begin with. No one should be wearing an 8th Dan younger than mid to late 50's, and by then, you aint gonna be doing extensive physical testing.

2. testing for ranks higher than 1st or 2nd is a recent, and I mean within the last 40 years, idea. It is not an historical practice.

3. IMO, the Koreans had to come up with testing material for above 5th degree because they started letting people get Dan ranks too young, and too closely together.

4. looking at the whole spectrumof martial arts, those that use the standard 10 Dan ranks system, the near universial standard is that above 5th, promotions are not based on knowledge, but on teaching and contributions to the arts.

So when i say "all 8th dans are honorary" it is my opinion, but that opinion is based on 25 years in martial arts, in many different systems.

 

[Laurentkd]

real simple.So simple, most people dont realize or have forgotten.

1. if you are young enough to do a physical test for 8th dan, something aint right to begin with. No one should be wearing an 8th Dan younger than mid to late 50's, and by then, you aint gonna be doing extensive physical testing.

2. testing for ranks higher than 1st or 2nd is a recent, and I mean within the last 40 years, idea. It is not an historical practice.

3. IMO, the Koreans had to come up with testing material for above 5th degree because they started letting people get Dan ranks too young, and too closely together.

4. looking at the whole spectrumof martial arts, those that use the standard 10 Dan ranks system, the near universial standard is that above 5th, promotions are not based on knowledge, but on teaching and contributions to the arts.

So when i say "all 8th dans are honorary" it is my opinion, but that opinion is based on 25 years in martial arts, in many different systems.

I thought you were thinking something along these lines, specifically #4.

 

[jks9199]

real simple.So simple, most people dont realize or have forgotten.

1. if you are young enough to do a physical test for 8th dan, something aint right to begin with. No one should be wearing an 8th Dan younger than mid to late 50's, and by then, you aint gonna be doing extensive physical testing.

Depends on the style and ages involved. In my style, if you got your first level black belt at 18 or 20... you could conceivable, honoring all the time-in-grade requirements, be testing for 8th level in your mid 30s or early 40s.

2. testing for ranks higher than 1st or 2nd is a recent, and I mean within the last 40 years, idea. It is not an historical practice.

3. IMO, the Koreans had to come up with testing material for above 5th degree because they started letting people get Dan ranks too young, and too closely together.

I'll have to trust your assessment on these points.

4. looking at the whole spectrumof martial arts, those that use the standard 10 Dan ranks system, the near universial standard is that above 5th, promotions are not based on knowledge, but on teaching and contributions to the arts.

So when i say "all 8th dans are honorary" it is my opinion, but that opinion is based on 25 years in martial arts, in many different systems.

I think that you overreach when you say that "all 8th dans are honorary" just because they may not be based on a physical testing scenario. Is a person's service and dedication to teaching somehow invalid as criteria? Can't they have learned -- and demonstrated -- improving skill in relating and teaching the art? Isn't that a valid, and non-honorary, promotion?

"Honorary" promotion suggests that it's done to recognize some factor, and doesn't necessarily have any legitimate training or scholarship, like an honorary doctorate presented to some performer or politician. I think those connotations are where the problem with "all ... are honorary."

 

[arnisador]

Depends on the style and ages involved. In my style, if you got your first level black belt at 18 or 20... you could conceivable, honoring all the time-in-grade requirements, be testing for 8th level in your mid 30s or early 40s. I'll have to trust your assessment on these points.

Is it a 2 year wait between every grade, then?