Chuck Norris and TKD

Daniel Sullivan

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Ok, a 6th Dan issued nearly 30 years ago. Not an 8th Dan issued recently, as has been the point of contention by some here.

Not sure why folks are upset about something that happened that long ago. Apparently, someone thought that was appropriate at the time. None of us were there, I assume.

Thanks for finding that, mango!
It is likely that he holds a 6th dan KKW and an eighth dan in another org. Heck, Elvis Presley was an eighth dan in Kenpo and may have been honored in other organizations as well.

Edit: Rather than post another reply, I'll add here:

Given that such degrees are generally partly or entirely for promotion of the art, I see no problem with Mr. Norris holding the rank. I know that he is TSD, but TSD did split, with part signing on with the KKW and becoming a part of taekwondo, so it isn't like there's no connection. Hey, how many of our schools say, "karate" on the front door? Anyhow, if the information in my last post is correct (the source is not an MA magazine, so I have no idea), then he holds grades in both the ITF and the KKW, and probably in several other organizations as well.

Daniel
 
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JohnAy

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real simple.So simple, most people dont realize or have forgotten.

1. if you are young enough to do a physical test for 8th dan, something aint right to begin with. No one should be wearing an 8th Dan younger than mid to late 50's, and by then, you aint gonna be doing extensive physical testing.
.

Really? I take it to mean that anyone over the mid 50's must be on crutches or in a wheel chair? lol
 

JohnAy

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It is likely that he holds a 6th dan KKW and an eighth dan in another org. Heck, Elvis Presley was an eighth dan in Kenpo and may have been honored in other organizations as well.

Edit: Rather than post another reply, I'll add here:

Given that such degrees are generally partly or entirely for promotion of the art, I see no problem with Mr. Norris holding the rank. I know that he is TSD, but TSD did split, with part signing on with the KKW and becoming a part of taekwondo, so it isn't like there's no connection. Hey, how many of our schools say, "karate" on the front door? Anyhow, if the information in my last post is correct (the source is not an MA magazine, so I have no idea), then he holds grades in both the ITF and the KKW, and probably in several other organizations as well.

Daniel

Before there was Tae Kwon Do there was Tang Soo Do. Thre were “5” major kwons When Choi formed Tae Kwon Do . If you look back into the history of those Kwons you will find many different arts within those Schools which have been lost in what now is TKD. Some of the older schools are being revived. As Far as TSD origianlly was the Moo Duk Kwan. When Choi proposed TKD part of the Moo Du Kwan joined and part stayed with Hwan Kee. The part that joined Choi was the Moo Du Kwan Tae Kwan Do. The part that stayed with Kee was the Tang So Do Mu Duk Kwan

As far as Elvis.. Don't go there ... please lol
Elvis went to chuck for his first and chuck refused. He went to parker and parker granted it
Then Elvis to Kang Rhee and Kang was the first to award Elvis his 8th for Elvis's supreme fighting ability ...LOL.. Any of you who have ever seen Elvis doing "kenpo" know why I am laughing. Kang has changed his story over the years.

Elvis was a wonderful human being. He was kind, thoughtful, and unfortunately extremely troubled. An accomplished martial artist, um.. no.
 

Balrog

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Chuck Norris was never a real black belt or student of Taekwondo.
Black Belt, no. Student, quite definitely.

Master Norris's first martial arts instructor was the late Grand Master H. U. Lee, founder of the ATA. At the time, Master Norris was in Korea in the military and was transferred before making 1st Degree. He started training with another instructor who was TSD, not TKD, and stayed with it. But his first training was in TKD with GM Lee.

 

Dirty Dog

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Before there was Tae Kwon Do there was Tang Soo Do.

Not quite. Before there was Taekwondo, there were a whole bunch of schools teaching a variety of styles, with major influences from karate (primarily shotokan), judo and (primarily northern) Chinese arts.

Thre were “5” major kwons

There were 9 Kwans (not kwons - kwon means "to punch or strike with the hand") involved in the unification, and an unknown number that were not involved, either because they were not invited or because they were invited and chose not to be involved.

When Choi formed Tae Kwon Do .

General CHOI Hong Hi did not "form" taekwondo. He was one of a large group of people involved in the unification movement. At most, he can be credited with suggesting the name taekwondo, but even that cannot be proven and is the subject of debate among those who really do "look back into the history" of taekwondo.

If you look back into the history of those Kwons you will find many different arts within those Schools which have been lost in what now is TKD.

Really? Which ones were lost? There are still people around who trained in the various kwans prior to the unification, so I don't see how they could be "lost". My own kwanjangnim was a student of GM HWANG Kee prior to the unification and of GM LEE Kang-Ik after the split.

Some of the older schools are being revived.

What "older" schools? All of the Kwans were first organized in the years immediately following the liberation of Korea from Japanese occupation at the end of WWII. I believe (though I'd have to check my references to be sure) that the vast majority were first organized in 1946-47.

As Far as TSD origianlly was the Moo Duk Kwan. When Choi proposed TKD part of the Moo Du Kwan joined and part stayed with Hwan Kee. The part that joined Choi was the Moo Du Kwan Tae Kwan Do. The part that stayed with Kee was the Tang So Do Mu Duk Kwan

Again, not really correct. TSD was a generic name used by lots of different schools, and is merely the hangeul transliteration of the Chinese characters for "China Hand Way".
The entire Moo Duk Kwan joined the unification movement, not just part. GM HWANG Kee left for political reasons. It is commonly believed that he left because he was not chosen to be the first President of the unified Kwans. When he left, about 2/3 of the Kwan stayed, with GM LEE Kang-Ik chosen as the Kwanjang. Not with General CHOI Hong Hi, but with the unification movement.
And Kee was the first name of GM HWANG. I really doubt that you knew him, let alone knew him well enough to use his first name like that.
 

TrueJim

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Regarding the reference to the 5 Kwans, I suspect that was intended to refer to the original 5 that were started during the period between World War II and the Korean War? (The 5 blue boxes in the following diagram.)

1280


And then of course after the Korean War, a bunch of additional kwans were formed. From what I've read, by 1960 there were at least 40 kwans, but there four "major" ones that survived consolidation (the red boxes in the diagram below)...so "Nine Kwans" of note.

As I understand it, of the 40+ kwans in existence in 1960, many were consolidated by the KTA, so that by 1971 there were only 14 kwans left. Then in 1971 when the South Korean Ministry of Education started requiring permits to operate, many kwans shut-down or emigrated out of Korea.

1280


The website of my best reference appears to be down at the moment: This website is currently unavailable. Any corrections to the above are appreciated.

Timeline of Taekwondo - Taekwondo Wiki
 

andyjeffries

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Mr. Norris, Has and 8th from I.T.F. and Kukkiwon. he also has other dan ranks certified with Kukkiwon. A acuaintance of mine that is with Mr. Norris's organization. Say's, the kukkiwon has given him certification like clockwork for many year's.

I can confirm that he currently has a 6th Dan black belt from Kukkiwon. He's in their database under the name CHUCK NORRIS, DOB 10/3/1940, American and his Dan number is 05000480, issued on 22nd of November 1976. You can verify this yourself at http://kms.kukkiwon.or.kr/usr/check.do...

He don't believe he has a higher rank as an honorary Kukkiwon rank - I checked my own instructor who received a posthumous honorary 10th Dan, and KKW correctly lists him as 10th dan. This doesn't surprise me (that KKW lists the honorary rank too) because it'll have had to go through their promotion system to be printed/produced (and a recommendation had to go in for it as well).
 

andyjeffries

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Well according to the KKW website:

Name CHUCK NORRIS
Current Poom/Dan 6 Dan
Poom/Dan No. 05000480
Date of Issuance 1976-11-22

Sorry man, didn't see you'd already posted the same information. At least I added confirmation that an honorary rank would also show up there (yet doesn't)
 

dvcochran

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I can confirm that he currently has a 6th Dan black belt from Kukkiwon. He's in their database under the name CHUCK NORRIS, DOB 10/3/1940, American and his Dan number is 05000480, issued on 22nd of November 1976. You can verify this yourself at http://kms.kukkiwon.or.kr/usr/check.do...

He don't believe he has a higher rank as an honorary Kukkiwon rank - I checked my own instructor who received a posthumous honorary 10th Dan, and KKW correctly lists him as 10th dan. This doesn't surprise me (that KKW lists the honorary rank too) because it'll have had to go through their promotion system to be printed/produced (and a recommendation had to go in for it as well).
Your post reminded me that I have not checked this site since my last testing. For grins and giggles:
DAVID COCHRAN 5 Dan 05902311 2019-08-21
 
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dvcochran

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Regarding the reference to the 5 Kwans, I suspect that was intended to refer to the original 5 that were started during the period between World War II and the Korean War? (The 5 blue boxes in the following diagram.)

1280


And then of course after the Korean War, a bunch of additional kwans were formed. From what I've read, by 1960 there were at least 40 kwans, but there four "major" ones that survived consolidation (the red boxes in the diagram below)...so "Nine Kwans" of note.

As I understand it, of the 40+ kwans in existence in 1960, many were consolidated by the KTA, so that by 1971 there were only 14 kwans left. Then in 1971 when the South Korean Ministry of Education started requiring permits to operate, many kwans shut-down or emigrated out of Korea.

1280


The website of my best reference appears to be down at the moment: This website is currently unavailable. Any corrections to the above are appreciated.

Timeline of Taekwondo - Taekwondo Wiki
I have used this several times. Great reference.
 

Dirty Dog

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Did he get a WT Dan certificate or Kukkiwon. For some reason WT was issuing their own honorary Dan certificates for a while.

Which is amusing, given that they don't issue actual Dan certificates.
 

andyjeffries

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Which is amusing, given that they don't issue actual Dan certificates.

There's no "Amen brother" reaction, but you'd have got that if there was...

I think they saw sense and ones in the past few years at least have been jointly issued with Kukkiwon. I saw a photo of one of the plaques online and it had both logos.
 

Dirty Dog

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There's no "Amen brother" reaction, but you'd have got that if there was...

I think they saw sense and ones in the past few years at least have been jointly issued with Kukkiwon. I saw a photo of one of the plaques online and it had both logos.

I mean, there's nothing inherently wrong with them giving out honorary Dan ranks. It's a bit silly, but the whole concept of honorary rank strikes me as a bit silly.
I've only got one piece of paper from WT (it was WTF then), but it's one of those 'thanks for all you've done for TKD' things, not rank. I don't think it has a KKW logo on it, but I honestly don't remember for sure. I'll have to look when I get home.
 

andyjeffries

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I mean, there's nothing inherently wrong with them giving out honorary Dan ranks. It's a bit silly, but the whole concept of honorary rank strikes me as a bit silly.

I'm not a fan, as they're a pure sports body. I'd rather they issued "Honorary World Taekwondo Champion" certificates ;-)

I've only got one piece of paper from WT (it was WTF then), but it's one of those 'thanks for all you've done for TKD' things, not rank. I don't think it has a KKW logo on it, but I honestly don't remember for sure. I'll have to look when I get home.

Yeah, both bodies issue commendations. I've only got a Kukkiwon one, but that works perfectly for me :)
 

dvcochran

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Which is amusing, given that they don't issue actual Dan certificates.
I would have to check but none of my WT(F) documents/certificates have anything to do with rank. They are for competitions/levels and tourney contributions.
 

Gwai Lo Dan

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Did he get a WT Dan certificate or Kukkiwon. For some reason WT was issuing their own honorary Dan certificates for a while.

On further review, I got one key fact wrong - the Canadian politician got his honorary BB (7th dan) in Ottawa (not Korea), whilst a Korean politician was visiting.

It seems it was done purely by a local GM, so I guess that explains why I don't see it online.

upload_2021-2-1_18-35-56.png
 

Gwai Lo Dan

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I mean, there's nothing inherently wrong with them giving out honorary Dan ranks. It's a bit silly, but the whole concept of honorary rank strikes me as a bit silly.
I've only got one piece of paper from WT (it was WTF then), but it's one of those 'thanks for all you've done for TKD' things, not rank. I don't think it has a KKW logo on it, but I honestly don't remember for sure. I'll have to look when I get home.

I think if the "honorary" BB were given to someone skilled who never officially studied the art, that would make sense.
 

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