Can a puncher beat a kicker?

[InvisibleFist]

Based on my limited experience with tournament fighting, it seems like good high kicks are the way to go. I'm curious if a punching style like Choi li Fut or Hung Gar can beat a good kicker in point sparring.

 

[Shotochem]

I would say yes from personal experience. I am more of a puncher than a kicker and I face a lot of kick happy people.
You just get very good a picking up on their footwork and either jam, sweep or sidestep and counter. Its not an easy task and it depends a lot on the skill of the person you are fighting not how they are fighting. IMO I believe as a puncher you should also throw in an occasional kick here and there to keep them honest. You may not throw as many but learn to use them wisely. :uhyeah:

 

[RHD]

Based on my limited experience with tournament fighting, it seems like good high kicks are the way to go. I'm curious if a punching style like Choi li Fut or Hung Gar can beat a good kicker in point sparring.

You've got to be kidding...right?
In a point fighting tournament, where most of the judges can't tell a solid, clearly landed kick from one that is jammed, blocked, or lacking enough power, a kicker will get points simply from lifting thier leg.
:wink2:
Mike

 

[7starmantis]

The problem with high kickers is if you get in close enough they can't execute kicks at all. That is how punchers can shut down a kicker and play thier game.

7sm

 

[OULobo]

The problem with high kickers is if you get in close enough they can't execute kicks at all. That is how punchers can shut down a kicker and play thier game.

7sm

That is the truth. I've always said that boxers are some of the most dangerous unarmed people. They aren't afraid to get close, they can take a ton of pain and they are extremely fast and well conditioned. I have seen GG boxers take out ranked MT fighters, because their speed and movement save them.

 

[loki09789]

IMO, it comes down to who can control their desired distance better, not kicker style or puncher style. If the puncher is more skilled than the kicker at maintaining the ideal distance for his techniques, he will win or vice versa.

It comes down to distance control more than techniques of punching or kicking.

 

[theletch1]

IMO, it comes down to who can control their desired distance better, not kicker style or puncher style. If the puncher is more skilled than the kicker at maintaining the ideal distance for his techniques, he will win or vice versa.

It comes down to distance control more than techniques of punching or kicking.

Excellent point. We all have our favorite techniques, whether they be punches, kicks, grappling moves and so on. Get your opponent in the range that best suits your favorites and you should have them. I've got really long legs so they are great at range for kicks but since starting aikido I've found that I prefer to be in close and personal and save the kicks for set ups and distractions. A well placed kick to the front of the knee will stop the puncher and by the same token a sweep to my kicking leg and the puncher is too close for me to boot. Distance is IMO the key to this question (and just this question so don't read anything else into it :uhyeah: )

 

[7starmantis]

It can be a little redundant to say it is simply skill. I mean of course the more skilled preson is going to win, that goes with puncher vs puncher or anything vs anything. I think for the sake of a discussion about kicking vs punching it is safe to assume we are talking about two participants of equal skill.


7sm

 

[MJS]

Based on my limited experience with tournament fighting, it seems like good high kicks are the way to go. I'm curious if a punching style like Choi li Fut or Hung Gar can beat a good kicker in point sparring.

Ok, I see 2 different ways that people here are looking at this- tounrament and street. As for the tourny---One thing that you dont want to do is play the other persons game. It also comes down to who can get control of the fight first.

As for the street---I wouldnt waste time throwing high kicks, when there are so many targets that a low kick could handle. Again, it also depends on who is faster.

There are also more things to deal with with a no rules situation---the clinch, close range weapons (knees, headbutts, elbows, etc.)

Mike

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

I think it depends on the person and their ability.

Does everyone remember the old Bruce Lee black and white tapes where he was punching and kicking. He was pretty quick in both.

One way to see is if you had someone that was quick and fast in both you could put some paint on their hands and feet in different colors and when you have two people square off see who really hits who and how much by the indentation of the color.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

Based on my limited experience with tournament fighting, it seems like good high kicks are the way to go. I'm curious if a punching style like Choi li Fut or Hung Gar can beat a good kicker in point sparring.

 

[Zepp]

Yes someone who depends entirely on hand techniques can beat someone who depends entirely on kicks, but it goes both ways.

I don't think you'd get very far relying soley on either punches or kicks in a tournament that allows both. It's alright to rely on preferred techniques, but you should be prepared to fight at all possible ranges.

 

[RHD]

I'm curious if a punching style like Choi li Fut or Hung Gar can beat a good kicker in point sparring.

InvisibleFist, I feel compelled to comment on this one more time. I'm a Hung Gar practitioner, so my opinion is a bit biased. However, I've been involved with various martial arts for 22 years and have some experience with this area. In point fighting, the kicker will have the advantage by being able to score from a distance. In real fighting, the kicker will be in major trouble as soon as their opponent closes. I've seen this many times, and have had to prove it to a few hard headded believers in long range kicking based styles.
Mike

 

[8253]

Based on my limited experience with tournament fighting, it seems like good high kicks are the way to go. I'm curious if a punching style like Choi li Fut or Hung Gar can beat a good kicker in point sparring.

Just think of it this way. If someone trys to kick you head and you block it. At that point in time the opponent is very vulnerable to having the other leg broken with just quick kick to the knee cap or just a good stiff kick to the groin will let you punch all you want to without him trying to kick you again. :btg: :hammer:

 

[Shotochem]

Another thought.....

With an equally skilled puncher and kicker paired off I would think the better blocker of the two would have the edge. You could throw a hundred lightning fast punches and kicks, if they don't land they are useless.

I have noticed this while sparring one of those very fast younger persons than myself. He must have thrown a ratio
of 10:1 at me yet I just kept blocking until I had the opportunity to land my one. Sometimes its good to economize.

 

[loki09789]

If it came down to attrition tactics, the kicker would have the advantage of striking force, and might win if both the kicker and the puncher were evenly skilled at neutralizing the other. Blocking kicks constantly is more punishing than blocking punches when you are really trying to take a guy apart.

I am not the greatest kicker, but I have used the high round house kick to beat on a guys arms so that the pain makes him pause, think, hurt....

Not to say the puncher couldn't do the same thing with hand tools. Drive your knuckle into the forearm, upper arm of an opponent who has successfully blocked your strike and it hurts alot if the puncher is thinking of attrition. Simultaneous block/strike to the shins, calves and thigh/groin muscles can be damaging too.

Again, it really comes down to who can dance at their ideal distance better between the two.

 

[OULobo]

I don't think you'd get very far relying soley on either punches or kicks in a tournament that allows both. It's alright to rely on preferred techniques, but you should be prepared to fight at all possible ranges.

You'd think so, but I have been to a national tournament that allowed kicks and punches, and I saw two teenage gold glove contenders take everyone else out. It didn't matter if the opponent was Muay Thai, American Kickboxing or whatever. These two kids rolled over everyone. I personally think it was the level at which boxing in this country has reached. None of the kickers were amature or inexperienced, they just got out classed.

You could throw a hundred lightning fast punches and kicks, if they don't land they are useless.

I don't agree with this at all. Punches or kicks that are blocked still take a very serious toll when someone executes them correctly. Matches are often won, not by a knock-out, but by wearing a person down with punches that hit either target or coverage. Ask a Thai boxer if he can block an unlimited amount of kicks.

 

[7starmantis]

If it came down to attrition tactics, the kicker would have the advantage of striking force, and might win if both the kicker and the puncher were evenly skilled at neutralizing the other. Blocking kicks constantly is more punishing than blocking punches when you are really trying to take a guy apart.

Unless of course the person doesn't use much traditional blocking, then the theory of force of blocking doesn't come into play. Yielding and destructions reverse that theory back against the kicker.

7sm

 

[loki09789]

7*,

I agree, it does reverse who is on the receiving end of the tactic, but the tactic of attrition still stands. That was one thing I was alluding to with the simultaneous strike/block responses.

FMA/Kenpo background has created a combination of hard blocking and redirection, evasion responses. Sometimes, depending on the attacker's approach I will hard block to test his/her limb conditioning to see if they will break down faster than me. Other times, I will use softer redirection responses to force hard press attackers to over extend and I can punish the attacking limb with destruction responses.

Either way the attrition tactic is an element to this puncher/kicker contest, along with the distance control issue.

The post I responding to was referring to blocking as opposed to slipping or redirections.

 

[Shotochem]

I don't agree with this at all. Punches or kicks that are blocked still take a very serious toll when someone executes them correctly. Matches are often won, not by a knock-out, but by wearing a person down with punches that hit either target or coverage. Ask a Thai boxer if he can block an unlimited amount of kicks.[/QUOTE]

It can work the other way around as well. When you use striking type blocks it will definately slow a guy down and they tend to not kick as hard or as much as a result.
That is in general. I would think however the MT guys would just keep going. I know it works quite well with the karate and TKD guys I spar with.

 

[tshadowchaser]

From the post that started this thread i guess you are talking about tounaments, there for I must also add that many ounamnts give more points for a kick than they do a punch. This I see as a couple of things:
a. Promots the kicking game so the tournament dose not look like a poor boxing exabition.
b. Give the home school an advantage (because they mainly kick, or cant punch)
C. Promotes tkd techs.

I agree many judges give poins if a kick even looks like it is close , if they hear a kick make contact( it might have hit an arm, elbow, or pads, it made contact with something its a point)

Some tournament hosts simply feel that it is safer to punch than take the chance of a punch landing solidly