Kick defence

[DeLamar.J]

Ouch, I wouldn't like to get kicked in the knees or shins. I suppose that is only for the most hardy. Both areas of the legs are vulnerable to injury.

DeLamar, is it Jason? I noticed that you do Goju Ryu, isn't that Karate? Do you always kick low while sparring? It sounds more like Muay Thai kickboxing somehow. In TKD, we don't spar to injure, though we do kick hard on the midsection with chestgear on. Just wondered what Goju Ryu is like. I think the other black belt in our class said he had 2nd dan from that discipline. TW

Yes, Go Ju is karate. In our basic techniques, we learn low kicks first, and how to defend against them. We also do alot of high kicking to, but that is after you have learned the low kicks first. When we spar, we go light contact unless it is against another black belt who wants to go hard, or if a new student wants to go hard thats fine to. We dont want to injure each other, but at the same time we have to train in these techniques because they are a must to know.
One time, when I was younger, these two guys were sparring and one guy threw a high out side cresent, then the other guy threw a low side kick at his knee and popped the guys knee, all I heard was a pop and a scream.
We all gather around, my instructor pulls up his pant leg and his bone is going through the skin on the side of his knee, I cant describe the feeling I felt seeing this. My instructor was very mad and we had a meeting about low kicks. We were not allowed to use them anymore, period. When the ambulance shows its self in front of his gym he gets very upset because he feels it makes his school look bad.
We throw low kicks now but they are controlled so we dont injure each other too bad. But at the same time, conditioning your legs are something that has to be done.

 

[TigerWoman]

Thanks for the explanation. Usually though the colored belts don't know how to pull their kicks back. They are so into training to get that strength to hit hard that they go full bore. There are more injuries in the lower ranks than black belt. I wouldn't want to risk some blue belt not knowing that the knee doesn't have to be hit too hard.... that's why we only practice low kicks on the bag because we students don't get much out of just tapping a knee, or a thigh in one-steps. TW

 

[DeLamar.J]

Good point, I hate to see a person get seriously injured to where they cannot continue training. But you know the old saying no pain no gain. Here is a good saying I like to use to explain to people about training hard, and training safe.

We train hard, but safely. It can also be said that we train safe, but hard. If one trains too safely, it can also be said that he trains hardly. A true martial artist is forever walking along the edge of the sword, striving to learn under the conditions most closely approximating true danger, yet at the same time, respecting one's own desire to preserve physical well-being and the physical well-being of one's classmates.

 

[TigerWoman]

We train hard, but safely. It can also be said that we train safe, but hard. If one trains too safely, it can also be said that he trains hardly. A true martial artist is forever walking along the edge of the sword, striving to learn under the conditions most closely approximating true danger, yet at the same time, respecting one's own desire to preserve physical well-being and the physical well-being of one's classmates.

Well said. I agree. We should post that on the bulletin board! TW

 

[Marginal]

Im not saying that one technique is effective 100% of the time. High kicks can be effective also if you have good enough technique strategy and speed to use them.

Kinda wish you'd said that in your first post, or at least explained what kind of audience you were trying to talk to. It's a very different message than "This kick will stop a TKD kicker."

 

[DeLamar.J]

My fault.

 

[Han-Mi]

I think low kicking techniques are they only kicking techniques a person should know, until they know how to do it properly should they move further to more advanced kicking techniques.

That is a more understandable oppinion. I think that we all pretty much train to our strong level until we nail the technique. Then we start practicing higher kicks in order to be ready in case you need to use it.
Besides, If I can kick you in the head, I can kick you in the stomach.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

I dont know if this illegal in sparring but I tried it once during a TKD match and it floored the person but nobody said anything. It was:

My opponent went for a turning (or hook kick) and at full extension I had moved into his kicking space and I just threw both hands foward in hap hazard punches, both which from my momentum went straight in his stomach and he propelled backwards from it because his leg was still in the air and because I had aimed at the stomach area most close to that raised leg (i.e area of least balance) and he hit the floor with a thud. ITs hard to explain but he didnt have a very good guard so either he was 2 slow to bring his leg back or his guard was pants, was I in the wrong seeing I basically threw myself into him as he threw his kick?

Regards

 

[TigerWoman]

I dont know if this illegal in sparring but I tried it once during a TKD match and it floored the person but nobody said anything. It was:

My opponent went for a turning (or hook kick) and at full extension I had moved into his kicking space and I just threw both hands foward in hap hazard punches, both which from my momentum went straight in his stomach and he propelled backwards from it because his leg was still in the air and because I had aimed at the stomach area most close to that raised leg (i.e area of least balance) and he hit the floor with a thud. ITs hard to explain but he didnt have a very good guard so either he was 2 slow to bring his leg back or his guard was pants, was I in the wrong seeing I basically threw myself into him as he threw his kick?

Regards

Usually a high kick or a round kick is not thrown as a first move unless it was a quick fake and something else was coming . It leaves you vulnerable if you are attacking with that first. If nothing else I would have faked a side kick to put you off your balance, then do hook or turning kick and it would have to be faster than someone could counter with punches.

No, you were legal and your opponent was not using an appropriate kick and was too slow. Good response to his move. I frequently crowd a high kicker but you do have to be faster and/or possibly duck when you are coming in, otherwise you risk moving right into his hook and getting clocked. TW

 

[Marginal]

I dont know if this illegal in sparring but I tried it once during a TKD match and it floored the person but nobody said anything. It was:

My opponent went for a turning (or hook kick) and at full extension I had moved into his kicking space and I just threw both hands foward in hap hazard punches, both which from my momentum went straight in his stomach and he propelled backwards from it because his leg was still in the air and because I had aimed at the stomach area most close to that raised leg (i.e area of least balance) and he hit the floor with a thud.

Sounds like you basically pushed him over. Pushing's not a legal ITF technique, which would probably explain why you didn't get any credit for it. Nothing's wrong with moving in and jamming the kick. It's more a question of what you do inside that space. If you're doing what's basically a push, or appear to be flailing out of control, you'll probably be called for unrecognizeable technique or some variant.

Is a hook kick really called a turning kick in your org? Usually turning kick refers to a round house kick, rather than a hook kick by ITF terminology.

 

[Drag'n]

Getting back to the original technique shown.I use this alot,so do my sparring partners, and its often effective.But we do high kicks too which are also effective if you dont tellegraph them.No 1 technique is infallable.
Another good variation of this technique is to throw a push kick(front kick)
from your lead leg into your opponents support leg.Aim for the inner thigh just above the knee and use your big toe to really dig in after contact.This will completely off ballance your opponent setting him up for a counter.
I learnt this while training in Thailand and they used it very effectively.
Another version is to push his chest with your lead hand and sweep his support leg at the ankle.
I trained in TKD for 7 years and didnt practise low kicks. Then I sparred with some Thai boxers and got my *** kicked.Needless to say I now practise low kicks! For those of you who dont practise them, or at least how to defend against them, all I can say is I hope you too get the opportunity to spar with someone who does, so that you may understand their effectiveness.

 

[DeLamar.J]

Sounds like you had a good wake up call, some people are not so lucky and are tricked into thinking they are more effective than they are. I would like to say something though, I was told I do alot of speaking in absolutes, and I would like to explain something. The technique I showed is just a guideline to defend and shut down low kicks, I dont belive it is the only way, or the only technique one should know. I do belive it is the only technique a newbie should know, until they are familliar with its applications so they can effectively kick high.
All techniques are just guidelines, there is no one best technique. There is a counter for EVERYTHING. Its just with my experience, I have found that alot of martial artists, mainly the ones who focus alot on high kicking, dont know how to deal with low kicking and sweeping attacks. It is unfamillair ground for alot of them. So I feel it is a must to test your opponent to see if they are familliar with these tactics, because if they are not, you can almost surely dominate the fight. Even boxers sometimes can be shut down because they dont know how to deal with low kicking and sweeping, even seen the fight between Ali and Inoki? Ali is the greatest boxer of all time, and look what happened to him, he had no clue.
But my main point is that any technique I discuss is just a guideline. There is always a counter to EVERYTHING.
What happens is I will say this is a great technique, and then someone else will jump in and say no, if you did that, I would do this, and then we go in a big circle. So to put and end to that, all that needs to be said is that there is a counter to everything. But are you good enough to counter the atttack like you say you can, well, thats something that you will never know on the net. People have great arm chair expertise, but what defines the good from the better is the ones who can apply there technique in the heat of of fight when there is no time to analize, only to react.
A low roundhouse to the knee or side kick is a very reliable move in alot of situations, when in doubt, throw a round house to the knee, when in the heat of battle and you dont know what to do, throw a low kick to the knee. That is better muscle memory than jump spinning this or that. In %'s, you will fair better throwing low kicking techniques than high ones. Of course there are counters like I said above, but the low techniques are the safe ones that will win the fight more often.

 

[BoneBreaker]

The single and most effective techniqe would be the last and therefore not able to be countered by that person at that very moment, this is how spectacular knockouts are achieved, at the expense of mistake. Hindsight is always 20/20, and for most people getting knocked out it's still a bit fuzzy. It all comes down to preperation and opportunity being taken advantage of. When skill and knowledge go out the proverbial window and conditioning and guts take over, anything can happen. You cannot predict what you will do until you are there and it happens, all other typing on the subject is simply argumentative, negative conjecture.

We differ fundamentally with TKD or similar styles. I train for conditioning and eventual opportunity at some point in time. I do not train to be good at sparring in a controlled environment but being victorious in that environment. I do not see any logic whatsoever in not using a proven effective technique if presented the opportunity. I practice at 100% at all times, for good or bad. It is not for everyone, it is for me everything.