Building speed in techniques

[brianhunter]

What are some tricks, tips, ways That you guys have found to build speed in techniques and forms? How do you practice them to improve speed without losing the quality?? Is it something you let develop naturally or is there a set way some of you work on it? Me and Jeff where video taping techniques and forms last night and I can tell you that is pretty humbling?? LOL

 

[Blindside]

This method is really revolutionary, I start by being slow and technical, then speed up the execution of the technique/form. :shrug:

OK, its not a shortcut but it works.

I really like working out in front of the mirror, and its not just to check out how good I look in a gi. The mirror lets me check targeting and motion.

Lamont

 

[tarabos]

repetition, repetition, repetition...

yes...you should start doing the techs slowly and work up to a faster speed. you can also do exercises to work on you fast twitch muscles, you can slap some wrist and ankle weights on when you do the techniques as well.

however, keep in mind that someone who isn't necessarily fast may seem like he or she is fast just because they use the correct timing, body mechanics and form when they move. speed is great, but working on being well-balanced is more important i think.

just keep stretching, (the whole body) and working the movements until they become etched in your brain...speed will come, and with that will come your power. bla bla bla...i could go on in more detail...but i ain't got the time right now.

 

[Wertle]

I don't know if there's really much of a shortcut either. Speed comes with knowing the technique. It was always emphasized to me to practice a new technique slowly, in order to learn exactly what I was doing. Jumping right in and trying to do the technique faster just made me perform the technique in a sloppy and ineffective manner.

I don't think speed is as important to concentrate on as focus, and executing the technique properly. And then, after practicing, and practicing...and more practicing, effective speed starts to develop. That's how it is in my experience, at least.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you already know the technique that your working on. This being the case, you probably have a pretty good understanding of the movements. I suggest working controlled bursts. Find a couple of techniques that use ballistic striking and work those controlled bursts into the techniques. Alternating maces would be a good one to work.
you would block the incoming push with the right, then the left, and then shoot a right back knuckle. Use the timing phrase "bud-da---wack." The right hand hits with "bud" the left hits with "da" and the backknuckle hits on the "wack". Once your use to working the timing slow, compress it. Still use the same timing, but in a smaller time frame. By allowing your arms to roll (almost like your in a Conga line) you facilitate the speed of the next movement without loosing power.

Now that's a real elementary overview of the technique without taking into account appropriate body mechanics, which are very important. Without the appropriate mechanics you lose alot of power. Hopefully the above example made some sense. Mr. Mills has developed countless drills and patterns of timing that can be incorporated into the self defense techniques. These patterns of motion combined with the appropriate body mechanics go along way to increase the speed and power of the kenpo practitioner. I'm usually reluctant to mention any of the timing drills, but this one was up on another site, so I didn't see any harm.

Respectfully

 

[Klondike93]

if you come up with something, I'm still searching.


:asian:

 

[rmcrobertson]

I generally agree with what's been said, but I'd put it even more strongly: I don't believe in working to increase speed at all, in the sense this is usually meant. That is, I was taught form comes first, that it's out of form that real speed comes, and that it's more important to teach students to develop power. The first place I see the mistakes that follow from too much pushing to get faster? Lousy punches out of a horse stance in group classes.

I can't claim all that much experience, however. Still, what I've noted again and again and again is that beginning students and advanced stduents alike--myself included--sscrew up when they try to move real fast. In my experience, it encouraged beginners to move very stiffly, probably because they associate increased speed with increased hand/upper body speed.

I try now to tell students that it's the speed of their feet and hips that counts, not their hand and arm speed. If I were to discuss drills, I'd think footwork first.

I also think that there's a tendency in kenpo towards, "useless speed," somewhat inherent in the nature of the system.

Thanks. Interesting discussion.

 

[matthewgreenland]

FYI - I read, and have, a really good book on speed - by Loren Christiansen (check spelling) I believe the book is titled - "Speed," or something along those lines. Within that book, the author discusses -guess what, SPEED. He addresses drills, speed of perception, movement speed, foot speed, hand speed - and many different methods to build speed.

I do agree with my collegues that experience and familiarity will build speed, but there are many things you can do with the tech to help speed along: extract the first two moves and drill them over and over and over and over - get the picture - each time begin moving faster - Isolating the a couple of moves w/i a tech helps one to focus on just those movements and the timing and breathing associated with them. From there, you can build to three movements - then four, etc...

Have fun

 

[brianhunter]

When I said "tricks" I did not mean shortcuts. Sorry if it came across that way. I meant tricks like when you use word association to "trick" yourself into learning for a test things like that. There arent any true shortcuts in training I think...just better ways of absorbing some things. Im a bigger guy and I have some speed issues and i know some of you guys are also bigger with great speed I want to develop that within myself too!!
I lift probably 3 times a week and I dont really think I have power issues but I want to build my techniques and movements to be more dynamic and econimic I guess. (I attached a pic of how Im built if you can take a laugh) LOL

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by brianhunter

When I said "tricks" I did not mean shortcuts. Sorry if it came across that way. I meant tricks like when you use word association to "trick" yourself into learning for a test things like that. There arent any true shortcuts in training I think...just better ways of absorbing some things. Im a bigger guy and I have some speed issues and i know some of you guys are also bigger with great speed I want to develop that within myself too!!
I lift probably 3 times a week and I dont really think I have power issues but I want to build my techniques and movements to be more dynamic and econimic I guess. (I attached a pic of how Im built if you can take a laugh) LOL

Repetition and Relaxation! Your timing will be the closest key to a "trick" for showing speed. Lifting is good, but heavy lifting for strength and size does hurt your speed. Remember what Dad told you about lifting....

 

[Robbo]

This kind of falls between 'tricks' and 'training'. It is a trick in the sense that it is very simple to implement but it does take training consistantly to do it.

When you learn a new techniques usually the movements are large and exaggerated to permit exploration of proper movement, power, proper body alignment, paths of motion, etc. The longer you train with the techniques try reducing the large movements to become more and more efficient. Use the outer rim thoery, point of origin, appropiate force required. By shortening the distance your technique travels but still maintaining effectiveness you will be increasing the speed at which the technique is done.

Basically, use economy of motion.

Rob

 

[Blindside]

(I attached a pic of how Im built if you can take a laugh) LOL

Oooooh, a pretty boy!!! :rofl:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by brianhunter

What are some tricks, tips, ways That you guys have found to build speed in techniques and forms? How do you practice them to improve speed without losing the quality?? Is it something you let develop naturally or is there a set way some of you work on it? Me and Jeff where video taping techniques and forms last night and I can tell you that is pretty humbling?? LOL

All the so-called drills and such are not designed to create speed but to allow the body to accept speed as it is developed.

The "Secret" of speed is a simple one. "Speed is a byproduct of physical and mental familiarity." Therefore repetition is the key, however things must be done absolutely correct to be of maximum benefit. So the hard part is really knowing what's correct.

"Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect."

Ed Parker.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Doc

So the hard part is really knowing what's correct.

Amen to that!

 

[tonbo]

Start off slow, and work up slowly to the speed. Work on the precision, and work the tool targets. Move up progressively to the speed.

That seems to have worked pretty well for me.....over a long period of time, but it has seemed to have worked....

Peace--

 

[WilliamTLear]

Mr. Parker said "flow first, power later." While I don't agree with everything that everyone says... I really take this statement to heart when teaching.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear

Mr. Parker said "flow first, power later." While I don't agree with everything that everyone says... I really take this statement to heart when teaching.

Interesting because I have always heard him say that as well, but he always told me just the opposite.

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by Doc



Interesting because I have always heard him say that as well, but he always told me just the opposite.

Now that is interesting... I know the saying from The Zen Of Kenpo (page 23, under continuity). I know that he was notorious for saying different things to different people, do you think that is the case here? If so, why did he have you work on the development of power first?

Curious ,
Billy

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear



Now that is interesting... I know the saying from The Zen Of Kenpo (page 23, under continuity). I know that he was notorious for saying different things to different people, do you think that is the case here? If so, why did he have you work on the development of power first?

Curious ,
Billy

Sir,

In my own lessons we did a lot of slow training, almost like "Taiji" with an emphasis on body mechanics and proper movement with breathing. When you move slow, every miscue is obvious and mistakes become glaring. I studied Chinese Arts before I met Ed Parker so this was "normal" to me. Ed Parker studied Taiji and other aspects of the Chinese Science and at one time even had a Taiji instructor teaching for him in the Pasadena School for awhile. (Can't remember his name, but I think it was James Lee). From there we would move to faster pace movements and ultimately explosive moement but only after the "wrinkles" were ironed out. Remember Ed Parker was, and did call his art "Chinese Kenpo" long before he created the commercial product for the American strip mall, store fronts, and franchises. (Remember Secrets of Chinese - "Karate" was first published in 1963) This was when he taught things like "Two-Man Set" and forms were lifted straight from Hung Gar like "Tiger and the Crane" and incorporated into his Kenpo teachings.

The notion of "speed" being paramount was a flashy concept that came along much later in the seventies with Motion-Kenpo. It really helped to "sell" the art. Back in the early days of Moton-Kenpo, when you mentioned Ed Parker the first thing people would say was, "Man he's fast."

Before that it was "power." Even after motion-Kenpo he would still say, "Speed kills your technique." So there were many contridictions in his teaching depending on what he said, who he said it to, when he said it, and what aspect of kenpo in his own evolutions he was speaking about. The things he said to and discussions with Steve Herring were completely different from what he told Frank Trejo. What he talked about with Chuck Sullivan and James Ibrao was different from what he shared with Larry Tatum and Huk Planas. To add to the confusion the Motion-Kenpo concept itself promotes many concepts simultaneously so students from the same timeline would get different information. I know he had conversations with Dennis Conatser that I never heard repeated with others of his generation, as an example. I'm not suggesting one way is better than another because I really think that is an instructors burden to get the most out of what he learned and pass it to his students, but we do have to accept the many differences and gravitate to what and who we feel is best for us, and forget this notion "all Ed Parker Kenpo is the same." It's clear from these international forums there is no standardized understanding of "how" to do anything. All Kenpo from the same lineage is not the same. Never has been, and never will be.

I asked Ed Parker about all the contridictions and he said, "It's just like the Bible. It's about who, when, and what they were trying to say at the time and all subject to interpretation." If you take the Bible (or Kenpo) as a whole literally, it makes no sense. You must focus on the period you find of value, and interpret it for yourself in a positive way as a guide.

If you went by to see Mr. Herring you would see a completely different Kenpo and philosophy of Ed Parker where the "slow with power" is still alive in Mr. Herring and his lineage. I too emphasize proper mechanics first, but when we speed up it's good to go.

Tomaaaato, Tomooooto. I think I'm right, but so does everyone else. I can live with that.

 

[Klondike93]

A very interesting post to read, more food for thought.


:asian: