Building A Spontaneous Reaction

[MJS]

Being able to react without having to think about what you're doing is IMO, a goal that we should all strive to reach. When we're first learning, we of course know what the attack will be, and we'll respond accordingly. However, we're not going to have that luxury when we are outside of the dojo.

What drills do you do to help with building that spontaneous reaction?

Working a technique line, where random attacks are thrown is one way. You could also have a few preset attacks set up. Have the student close their eyes, and then when they open, the attacker responds with one of those attacks.

Anyone else??

Mike

 

[Andrew Green]

Sparring

I don't care much for technique lines....

 

[arnisador]

One thing we do in arnis is start from a you-do-this-I-respond-like-this drill, like a forehand to the head blocked in a certain way, to something where the attack may be either a forehand or a backhand to the head. In one class we might start with the forehand only (1 possibility), then go to either (2 possibilities), then expand the drill to allow for either swing to the torso too (4 possibilities), then maybe add the legs (6 possibilities). There are lotsof ways to do this. Eventually we reach a point where I throw a technique from one of the set angles, you respond with a block, then counter, and I counter your counter, and we enter into free play until some counter is not countered.

As always...easier to show than describe!

 

[Mekosho]

Repitition!!!!
Unconsious reaction, to react without thinking thru the entire progress is definatly the key to being a great martial artist. We have learned to tie our shoes in this manor, not thinking about the knot, but just simply tieing it and moving on, driving, imagine all the dead cats and dogs on the road if we drove with "consious thought" instead of just reacting as we are conditioned to do...again, repition is the key...

 

[Seabrook]

Sparring against good opponents with various martial arts backgrounds.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[MJS]

Good posts!! I agree, the best way to get good at something is by doing it over and over. Ultimately thats where we want to get, where we don't have to think, just react.

 

[arnisador]

Agreed--muscle memory is built by repetition. Like an iaidoka doing 1000 cuts a day, or a boxer spending hours on bagwork.

 

[eyebeams]

Sparring against good opponents with various martial arts backgrounds.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

No no. That's much too sensible.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i think it also depends on what it is you want to the response to be for.
sparring does indeed help with spontaneous action, but it can also lead to a game of tag with no commitment.
if on the other hand you're trying to build a natural response for self defense, you have to do it from that kind of angle, with the intent of stopping the attack and restraining the attacker.
some might call this method BS.....because who wants to restrain their attacker? but, if you can get your attacker into a position of restraint quickly, it opens doors for other things.

 

[MJS]

i think it also depends on what it is you want to the response to be for.
sparring does indeed help with spontaneous action, but it can also lead to a game of tag with no commitment.
if on the other hand you're trying to build a natural response for self defense, you have to do it from that kind of angle, with the intent of stopping the attack and restraining the attacker.
some might call this method BS.....because who wants to restrain their attacker? but, if you can get your attacker into a position of restraint quickly, it opens doors for other things.

Good post! As for the sparring...I agree if we're talking more about the point game. I can see that as more of a game of tag, as you mention. I'd think though, that if we changed our goals during sparring, making it more fluid, rather than stop and go, adding in some clinch work, takedowns, etc., it would help a bit more than point.

As for the SD...that was what I had originally geared this thread for. You bring up a good point on the restraint though. Not every SD situation is going to require a knee break. If the problem can be solved with a restraint, then IMO, we succeeded in defending ourselves!

Mike

 

[jonah2]

....sparring does indeed help with spontaneous action, but it can also lead to a game of tag with no commitment....

Good point sir,

This is something my instructor brought up recently. He pointed out that we all get into habits sparring each other in class. He pointed out that some of us tend to attack on a centre line and not so much on the “good ol’ swingers”. He got us to try and off load a bit of the ‘trained’ attacks and use a bit more of the pub stuff, in essence also attack how an ‘un trained’ person would. It was a good wake up call.

jonah

 

[kenposikh]

Good point sir,

This is something my instructor brought up recently. He pointed out that we all get into habits sparring each other in class. He pointed out that some of us tend to attack on a centre line and not so much on the “good ol’ swingers”. He got us to try and off load a bit of the ‘trained’ attacks and use a bit more of the pub stuff, in essence also attack how an ‘un trained’ person would. It was a good wake up call.

jonah

Good point all in all the other option is to do what I and my students have done and that is to train in a pub tables chairs bar stools glasses it's amazing how your checking the storm differs when a bar stool is flying through the air at you cos the guy or girl hasn't got any control of it.

Amrik

 

[IWishToLearn]

Agreed--muscle memory is built by repetition. Like an iaidoka doing 1000 cuts a day, or a boxer spending hours on bagwork.

I agree with this in the same context I like the philosophy that only proper practice produces the correct results. If you practice something wrong 1,000 times, you'll get it 100% wrong when it counts.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Being able to react without having to think about what you're doing is IMO, a goal that we should all strive to reach. When we're first learning, we of course know what the attack will be, and we'll respond accordingly. However, we're not going to have that luxury when we are outside of the dojo.

What drills do you do to help with building that spontaneous reaction?

Working a technique line, where random attacks are thrown is one way. You could also have a few preset attacks set up. Have the student close their eyes, and then when they open, the attacker responds with one of those attacks.

Anyone else??

Mike

This is what I'm striving for. I believe it takes alot of repetition to get things into muscle memory.

That's what forms are good for. Forms teach fighting by getting moves into muscle memory. In fight it won't be like doing a form in the order, but by practicing forms you're teaching your body to string techniques together. Moves are ingrained to muscle memory and all of sudden you'll find yourself apply something during sparring, or whatever, without thinking about it and realize that move is from one of your forms.
I know alot of people don't like forms, but you have understand the importance of forms in teaching muscle memory and realize forms teach you how to fight. (It helps to have an instructor who teaches you the application in your forms.) The cool thing is I've seen more advanced students use techniques from our forms in sparring that has come out as muscle memory during the situation.

In addition to practicing forms you have to spar frequently. Again, it's practice.

We occasionally do control move drills similar to what you mentioned. One person stands facing the wall and there are 2 lines of people on either side, forming an alley-like passage. A person is pre-chosen to grab. The person facing the wall turns around and begins walking down the passage without knowing by whom or how they will be grabbed or if they will be grabbed coming or going or what pass they will be grabbed on. The chosen person decides when to grab and the other person then performs an appropriate control move for the situation.

I can't wait til the day comes when I'm sparring and muscle memory takes over, and better yet, when those reactions become part of my every day awareness.

 

[MJS]

We occasionally do control move drills similar to what you mentioned. One person stands facing the wall and there are 2 lines of people on either side, forming an alley-like passage. A person is pre-chosen to grab. The person facing the wall turns around and begins walking down the passage without knowing by whom or how they will be grabbed or if they will be grabbed coming or going or what pass they will be grabbed on. The chosen person decides when to grab and the other person then performs an appropriate control move for the situation.

I like that!! Sounds like a great drill that will really aid in building a reaction without the person having the chance to think!!

Mike

 

[pete]

I agree with this in the same context I like the philosophy that only proper practice produces the correct results. If you practice something wrong 1,000 times, you'll get it 100% wrong when it counts.

i couldn't disagree more...

while there are definite 'wrongs' in all martial arts, there are generally several versions of what is 'correct', and even that should evolve over each individual's own timeline. for example, a person practicing a form at yellow belt correctly would look, feel, and 'be' totally different from that same form practiced after a few years in the art.

i believe you should practice based on your current level of understanding, and as that changes to make adjustments in your practice. do not worry that you've spent all this time practicing something 'wrong' 1000 times, because its not all or nothing... you musth've done something good amidst your 'mistakes'.

i like the story in infinite insights about the guy doing the ice scupture of the elephant. someone asks him how he is able to shape it from a block of ice, and the sculptor says he just removes anything thats not elephant.

waiting to achieve perfect practice, is nothing but procrastination. just do the best with where you are, and keep removing things that aren't elephant.

pete.

 

[Zoran]

I agree with Pete. In my mind, it's all about getting them to be able to use the tools we give them as soon as possible. Using drills that promote spontaneity is key to get a student there early on in their training. Even if they may not do it the best way, as long as they can use what they have been taught so far in their training.

One of the things I find students have problems with is adaptablity. Being able to adapt is a part of being spontaneous. You'll see the lack of this in students, or yourself if you are at the point, when they freeze or keep trying to make something work that just wont. This is were the instructor needs to step in and help. You need to drill it into them that when something doesn't work the first time, it won't work a second, third or forth. Stopping what you are doing will also create problems.

I tell my students if something doesn't work the first time, don't stop or try to make it happen. Do something else, even if it's wrong, becuase I can fix that more easily than getting you out of the other if it becomes a habit.

 

[MJS]

Everyone is posting some great replies! Thank you!!

If anyone has some drills that you do either in your school or in your personal training, please feel free to post them.

Mike

 

[hongkongfooey]

I had a problem just this past Monday with spontaneous reaction. We were working Delayed Sword(against a punch)and Sword of Destruction. We weren't supposed to tell our opponet what the attack would be, we were to respond to the attack. Well everytime I saw the punch come at me in Delayed Sword, I responded with thinking with the defense for Attacking Mace. I guess I shouldn't complain, because I reacted to the attack, but it was frustrating none the less. Ah, the pains of retraining after a very long layoff.

HKF

 

[Rick Wade]

One of the exercises I have been thinking of is this:

You get 9 guys
1 guy in the middle and 8 on the 8 lines of attack. You assign random numbers to the attackers they attack with a random attack and the guy in the middle defends against it. As soon as the attacker gets throttled he gets up and gets out and repeat the process. that away there is no body pile up but yet the attacks come quick enough so that the defender doesn't have time to think about what he is going to do.

I believe that this exercise will not only work innovative spontaneity but also foot maneuvers. With the sense of urgency you wouldn't let a guy sink into a good bear hug.

Just a thought what do you guys think?


V/R

Rick