Heavy Bag

[Kirk]

My instructor suggested (for weight loss) that I get 2 egg timers,
one for 2 minutes, and one for 1 minute. Then hit/kick the bag
working around it and what not, for 2 minute rounds, with 1
minute rest between rounds. He suggested 7 rounds. I definitely
need to do something to increase my stamina (ESPECIALLY for
belt tests). I'm going to get me a heavy bag to do this, because
he sure as heck winded the me BIG TIME doing it at school, and
that wasn't even 7 rounds! So now I'm asking for other exercises
and drills for a kenpo student to do on a heavy bag. I've seen
attachments to give it Muk Jong (Wing Chun dummy) arms, so I
guess you could do some techs on the bag. Anyone do this?
What do you think about speed bags? Not for weight loss or
building stamina, but for workouts in general?

 

[tarabos]

first off...do yourself a favor and get a ringside heavybag, or one that is equal in quality. stay away from everlast or century or the like. if you really want to as well, you can get an interval timer from ringside so you don't have to deal with two timers at once, they may cost you more than the bag though...

as for things to work on with the bag, ask your instructor for ideas first. this is a great place for info, but it's always good to throw some repect your instructor's way and pick his or her brain.

with kenpo techniques, i'll take some time to try and work a technique on the heavybag. granted, there aren't many that you can do completely on a heavybag, maybe none, because of the way it is shaped. so instead of trying to do the whole thing, just work on one strike and really try to develop it. you can mold this into a bag round as well by moving around the bag and continuously throwing the strike while moving to get a better cardio workout.

there are also tons and tons of things you can do on the bag in regards to kicking and punching combos. sometimes you may want to do a whole round of just one combo to get it down (there are a lot of resources to find what good bag combos might be). sometimes you may just want to go freestyle and throw whatever you like. sometimes you may just want to throw legs (which can be a very exhausting workout). the list of things goes on.

if you're looking to lose weight from doing this, it will happen as long as you put a lot of intensity in your rounds and stick to doing them religiously. i would also recommend that you start skipping rope for both endurance and improving you footwork. always mind you footwork, can't stress that enough. whether you're doing a technique, or just moving around and with the bag. always be mindful of it, because if you can't move on your feet, the rest of you isn't going to be able to get where you need it to go properly and you'll be reaching all over the place.

when i get home i'll see if i can dig up some stuff you can use on the net.

 

[tarabos]

you won't get as much total body endurance from a speedbag workout, but you will get some, particualy in the arms. the speedbag is surprisingly easy to get the hang of and you will see a great increase in your hand-eye coordination as well as a likely speed boost.

let's put it this way, done properly it can only help you.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by tarabos

i would also recommend that you start skipping rope for both endurance and improving you footwork.

Thought of that, but unfortunately, I'm too big at this time for
skipping rope.

 

[Nightingale]

Cardio (aerobic) workouts = weight loss. Most bag/martial arts stuff is anaerobic (non cardio) and doesn't really effectively help you to lose weight, because of the nature of martial arts and the short duration of "matches" or "sets" To get a good cardio workout, you need to keep your heart rate CONSISTANTLY in your target zone for at least 20 minutes. Frankly, it sounds like you'd get a better cardio workout by hopping on a bike for half an hour. you can get good cardio in bag workouts, but it requires at least 20 minutes nonstop, and with bag work you have no way to track your heart rate, other than stopping to take your pulse, so you don't know if you're overexerting or not working hard enough.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Hey Kirk,

I've been wanting to get back into shape so I can start doing competitive sparring. Most fighters will tell you that you need to work on increasing your aerobic and anaerobic capacity. Aerobic is the easy part, anaerobic is a little more difficult. To increase your aerobic capacity, you can simply start a running/jogging routine. I noticed you said that you were a little overweight, if it bothers you to much to run right now, you can walk at a brisk pace. This is actually probably the best way to start out anyway. Get to where you can walk 3 miles at a nice fast pace, this will give the muscles in your lower extremities time to adjust to the beating that running tends to inflict (it will lower your chance for shin splints too). Then just start building up from there, this obviously requires a bit of patience as it may take several months to get up to a reasonable distance (depending on what your current fitness level is). Or you could just Tae-Bo :boing2:

As for anaerobic, I plan to start a new program next week that will involve hypoxic excercises. I.e. I'm going to hold my breath while I swim laps and/or run sprints, only for short distances of course. I've read alot about it, and most of the stuff I've seen shows great cardio improvement among athletes who use a moderate level of hypoxic training techniques.

Note: Hypoxic swims can be very dangerous, never try this without a lifeguard nearby, even then you should probably tell them what your doing just in case.

I know that you wanted to know about bag work, but these are other things that you could do to supplement your bag work (which will be working to increase, at least to some degree, your anaerobic abilities).

Bag drills:
Try this out, from a Left Neutral bow
LH= Lead Hand
RH= Rear Hand
1) LH jab
2) RH punch
3) LH Hook punch (head)
4) RH uppercut (ribs)
5) LH uppercut (ribs)
6) RH straight punch (body)
work these in a pyramid (add one each time) at the end subtract one until back to #1 change stances and do it again.
i.e.
LNB 1, 1-2, 1-2-3, ----, 1-2-3-4-5-6, 1-2-3-4-5, 1-2-3-4,----, 1-2, 1
switch to RNB and repeat.

See what combos you can come up with.

Good luck.

 

[Kirk]

Yes, I definitely can't run, but walking is a good idea. I get to
go to class 4 days per week (mon - thurs) so I was looking for
something to do about 30 minutes long in the mornings. It just
requires that I get up 30 minutes earlier. I did a treadmill plus
weight lifting for 6 months straight, practically everyday .. I didn't
lose squat. Heavy bag workouts are FUN, so it kicks my butt,
and I don't even realize how much it's kickin' my butt. That's why
when my instructor mentioned it, I got PSYCHED! Plus, I figured
it'd help my kenpo. Walking doesn't have that added advantage.
Nor is it as fun as hitting a bag. I'm open to other ideas, though.

 

[satans.barber]

Hrmm, 7 is tough.

In gradings we have 4 sets of 2 minute rounds with a minute inbetween, first hands only, then legs only, then elbows and knees, and finally everything.

This tires out even our fittest students, so if you're trying to get back in shape I would suggest that 7 is a bit much to start with, 2 or 3 would be more like it. Or, if you insist, do 3 on a morning and 3 on a night or something, so it's not all at once.

Just my 2p,

Ian.

 

[Michael Billings]

Kirk,

I would add some alternate exercises in a 20 - 30 minute workout. Start with some light shadowboxing, go to your heavy bag and alternate hands with feet. (note, you will get tired quicker using legs, so limit this for now.) Back to the shadowboxing for a few minutes, back to the bag, then Short #1, Long#1, Kicking Set, fast (aerobically), then finish on the bag.

Do not forget to wrap your hands. As you get more tired, you are more likely to bend your wrist and hurt something. They do make gloves with built in wrist supports also.

Keep training & keep the faith. You coming down Saturday for John Sepulveda?

-Michael
UKS-Texas

 

[Nightingale]

Sounds like you need a personal trainer. they can tell you more accurately how to fix your routine. With respect to your instructor, who I don't know, so I don't know what kind of background he or she may have, most karate instructors, as well trained as they are in their own art, don't have a lot of kinesthiology or nutritionist knowledge... not sure about your instructor, just a generalization here. I would suggest that you see someone who's job it is to know how to make you reach your fitness goals, rather than someone who can teach you martial arts.

if you had a treadmill routine (you didn't say how often, I think) for six months and didnt lose any weight, you either:

1... didn't get your heart rate up high enough
2... have some kind of condition that is preventing you from losing weight (thyroid disease or something...see your doc if this may be the case)

MOST LIKELY, you
3... still took in more or the same number of calories that you burned. look at what you're eating. if you burn more calories than you eat, you WILL lose weight. its that simple. your body has to get the extra calories from somewhere, and they come from your fat cells, so you lose weight. consult your doctor to find out how many calories you should be eating... for men, usually 2000, for women, usually 2400 per day. being female, when I diet, I take my calories down to around 1800 a day.

if exercise doesn't work, look to your diet.

simple fixes...

substitute potato chips with something like carrot sticks. same crunch factor, less calories.

substitute candy bars with luna bars... kinda like flavored rice crispy treats, only made with soy and vitamins and stuff so they're good for you, and they actually taste decent. It says on the box they're for women, but my trainer says he eats em all the time, and this guy is a total stud. (my completely unbiased female opinion of course).

eat breakfast. It makes you less likely to snack during the day. you'd be surprised how much people tend to nibble... take a plastic bag with you for a day, and every time you get the urge to nibble, drop whatever the food is into the bag... chances are, you'll need another bag by the end of the day. I know I did, and I didn't think I really snacked at all... there were the doughnuts in the break room, the candy on my desk, the candy on my coworker's desks, etc... offices are munchie city.

take vitamins... people sometimes crave junk food if they're low on a certain kind of vitamin or mineral. for example, chocolate cravings sometimes signify a magnesium deficiency...take vitamins and the chocoholic cravings go away.

eat a balanced diet. more fruits and veggies than meat. fruits and veggies have fewer calories than richer foods and take up just as much room in your stomache.

share a dessert with someone. if you want to order one, do it, just don't eat it all.


If you really want to lose weight, see your doctor. They can refer you to a nutritionist, and sometimes gym memberships, personal training, (and karate and stuff) can be covered by insurance if you weigh enough. doesn't hurt to ask.

best of luck

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

If you really want to lose weight, see your doctor. They can refer you to a nutritionist, and sometimes gym memberships, personal training, (and karate and stuff) can be covered by insurance if you weigh enough. doesn't hurt to ask.

best of luck

Ugh, I'm sick of doing that. I can't find a concerted opinion on it
all at all! And everyone quotes a study! I'm very focused on
eating, but let me tell you. I haven't GAINED in quite awhile. But
when I decided I wanted to do something about my weight, years
ago, I threw away the fry daddy I had, I gave up ice cream! I
altered my eating of things like instead of 4 breakfast tacos at
breakfast, I ate 2, instead of a double burger and supersized
fries, I got a single and regular ... and time after time, I've
trimmed it more and more. At dinner, have a salad, and half of
what I used to est ... it's a bit unnerving going from eating
so crappy to eating MUCH healthier with no results. Add in
kenpo training, and still nothing. I did get my thyroid checked,
it's fine

I've been told to eat more often, small meals,
So now the regimine is (for the past 1 1/2 - 2 weeks) :
protein bar for breakfast
2 hours later .. sandwich (bologna n' mustard)
1 hour later ... sandwich
1 - 2 hours later ... sandwich
before kenpo ... protein bar
after kenpo ... salad or protein bar

small binge on occasion by going out with the wife,
or weekends .. but not massive. So I figured I'd add
in bag work in the mornings ... soon as I get one.

 

[ikenpo]

Kirk,

I would suggest you talk to my very good friend Gary Catherman (i.e. Kalicombat) from Sinton, Tx. He was a little bigger than you (i guess) when I met him in 1998. He has since lost a great deal of weight. He is healthy and has a program he used/designed after doing a lot of things that didn't work. If your serious about it send him a private message or he may see this and respond anyway. Regardless, he is the real deal. He had the weight and took it off and that is what your looking for. Good luck my friend.

jb:asian:


p.s. I think all the suggestions listed here are great stuff for building endurance....

 

[Klondike93]

I do them all the time, it helps me develop power which you can't do on your partner. I also think 7 rounds is a bit much, you should start out at 3 or 4. I also use the way Ian described, 1 round hands, next round feet, 3rd and 4th round everything. I just combine the elbows and knees when I do hands and feet.

Tae Bo was also suggested, and I agree, just do it on the heavy bag, that will put some sweat on your brow.

As for eating, I try (key word, try) to follow this: your body burns 2000 calories a day even if you do nothing at all. So I try to keep my caloric intake below that number. I also try (that word again) to cut as much fat as possible and increase protien and keep carbs down.

Hope some of this helps

:asian:

 

[Stick Dummy]

Kirk,


I'd add some cardio-karate classes (or whatever its called in your locale) to the personal training. It made a MASSIVE difference in my endurance after I got past the point of wearing a barf bag like horses wear a feeder bag for the first three weeks or so of class.

Another thought that will whip you tail initially is to do your sparring rounds, and alternate to rounds where your partner holds a single or pair of kicking shields and "fights" you by changing distance and aggression levels of literally pushing against you.

Basically they become a "moving" heavy bag for power, timing and distancing.

If you are not careful with a heavy bag, technique will get sloppy, and there is a risk of injury training while fatigued.

Good luck and train HARD.

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Kirk



Ugh, I'm sick of doing that. I can't find a concerted opinion on it
all at all! And everyone quotes a study! I'm very focused on
eating, but let me tell you. I haven't GAINED in quite awhile. But
when I decided I wanted to do something about my weight, years
ago, I threw away the fry daddy I had, I gave up ice cream! I
altered my eating of things like instead of 4 breakfast tacos at
breakfast, I ate 2, instead of a double burger and supersized
fries, I got a single and regular ... and time after time, I've
trimmed it more and more. At dinner, have a salad, and half of
what I used to est ... it's a bit unnerving going from eating
so crappy to eating MUCH healthier with no results. Add in
kenpo training, and still nothing. I did get my thyroid checked,
it's fine

I've been told to eat more often, small meals,
So now the regimine is (for the past 1 1/2 - 2 weeks) :
protein bar for breakfast
2 hours later .. sandwich (bologna n' mustard)
1 hour later ... sandwich
1 - 2 hours later ... sandwich
before kenpo ... protein bar
after kenpo ... salad or protein bar

small binge on occasion by going out with the wife,
or weekends .. but not massive. So I figured I'd add
in bag work in the mornings ... soon as I get one.

There is a book out there called (if I remember right) The Body Type Book. It quizzes you, then tells you by points what body type you are and what makes you gain and loose weight. I found it very imformative. I found that my body type which is Adrenaline(Its been a while since I read it hope that is right) type, that I needed to cut down on my milk and red meat intake. Not to cut it out completely but to cut down on it. You might try to look for this book, it may help.

Michael

 

[headkick]

Originally posted by Kirk



I've been told to eat more often, small meals,
So now the regimine is (for the past 1 1/2 - 2 weeks) :
protein bar for breakfast
2 hours later .. sandwich (bologna n' mustard)
1 hour later ... sandwich
1 - 2 hours later ... sandwich
before kenpo ... protein bar
after kenpo ... salad or protein bar

small binge on occasion by going out with the wife,
or weekends .. but not massive. So I figured I'd add
in bag work in the mornings ... soon as I get one.

Maybe too many carbs. Also, lift weights. I had to run 2 1/2 mile severyday for 8 weeks leading up to my Black Belt test in June so I could make it through. At one point I did the Body For Life program and lost about 30 pounds in 10 weeks

R

 

[tarabos]

looking at your diet plan, it might not hurt to remember the old 5'a day plan. 5 servings of fruits and or vegetables a day. might not get you losing a lot of weight, but there's lots of other health benefits to be had from that type of consumption.

i see you are somewhat focused on getting a good bit of protein in you. have you been hitting the weights at all?

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by tarabos

i see you are somewhat focused on getting a good bit of protein in you. have you been hitting the weights at all?

No ... I'm really not interested in cutting back on training time to
lift. I've lifted weights since I was 14, and stopped in my mid 20's
because I just got sick of doing it. There's a whole low rep / high
rep deal about me toning, and yada yada yada ... and I know
that they say muscle mass and density help to raise your
metabolism, but I just don't like it anymore. At one time I was at
12% body fat, and 250 lbs ... most probably won't believe me,
but no matter the set/rep ratio, I pack on muscle size .. light
weight high reps, heavy weight low reps .. several personal
trainers ... they don't believe it until they see it .. and they always
have different reasons why ... I'm DONE lifting weights.

 

[Nightingale]

I looked at your diet plan...

If you're going to eat five or six small meals a day, make sure they add up to three big ones... I counted three sandwiches and three protein bars. Try to have no more than one protein bar a day. You don't need that much protein. It also looks like you don't have nearly enough fruits and veggies, which is where you get most of your vitamins. You need vitamins to be healthy. Substitute an apple or a grapefruit or some carrot sticks (with fat free ranch dip... buy the fat free sour cream and the dip mix and make it yourself...its really good). Also, bologna isn't really good for you. Its processed meat stuff. Go to your local Vons Deli and get something like their primo taglio sliced turkey or something. White meat, not red. Protein is good for you, but you have to make sure you get it from the right sources.

Don't worry so much about the protein vs. carb thing. Look at calories and fat grams. Try to keep the fat grams below 20 or so, and the calories below 2000 or 1900 and you'll lose weight. you have to. Simple scientific formula. If you eat less calories than you burn, your body HAS to take the extra calories from your fat cells to function. The reason the high protein things seem to work is that high protein stuff tends to have fewer calories per ounce than the carb stuff, so you can feel fuller faster.

looking at your diet, you really need to see a nutritionist. It still looks like you're eating too many calories... for example... a typical 5 oz. serving of bologna has over 40 grams of fat (the same amount of fat as 8 teaspoons of butter). a typical 5 oz serving of turkey has about 5.

protein bars average 360 calories/bar
slice of bread averages 100 calories per slice
slice of bologna = 70 calories per slice

protein bar x 3 = 1080 calories
slices of bread x 6 (3 sandwiches) = 600 calories
bologna (3 slices/sandwich) x 9 = 630 calories

total number of calories (minimum per day) = 2310, still at least 300 calories too many.

you didn't list what you're drinking, but anything besides water adds calories. diet sodas are still bad for you, even though they're labelled "diet". Drink nonfat milk (or lowfat if you can't stomache the nonfat stuff) instead of whole, also.


these websites might help you.

http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/food/food-pyramid/main.htm

http://www.laurushealth.com/healthyliving/jul02nutritionsandwich.htm

http://www.foodcount.com

 

[Michael Billings]

Nightingale,

Very helpful links, not just for Kirk. You are being a great support and resource.

-Michael
UKS-Texas