Britain, do you still think Obama likes you?

[5-0 Kenpo]

I'm sorry, but IMO reference to ethnicity is out of place here. I am not Jewish, but I would really prefer that we keep on the topic and I am only saying this because I don't feel Tez should have to cop this %#*t.

The reference was perfectly acceptable considering the topic. It was to illustrate a point. The fact is that Tez continuously tells us what "the British" think and feel. I used her arguments made when speaking of Judaism to back my point, and to further show the inconsistency of her arguement. It was perfectly on topic. If you don't like it, fine, but your opinion is then irrelevant as to the relevancy of what I am saying and it's appropriateness to the discussion.

What's also interesting is the her comment was directly related to ethnicity, her ethnicity as a UK subject. She is giving that ethnic perspective. So why can she talk about that ethnicity, but I am forbidden to speak about her consistent illogical reasoning with regard to such subjects.

Back to the OP. The question wasn't phrased about Governments.
"Britain, do you still think Obama likes you?" I would have thought that that was a question asked of any of the members from GB. It specifically starts "Britain, ..." Did you expect a reply from the British Government? It was NOT asking Americans how they feel about this but obviously they are going to put in their two bobs worth which is as it should be.

No it wasn't. This was a post from an anti-Obama person to try to show how he is undermining supportive relationships with other governments. There was no real question involved.

The point I was making was that Tez stated, "don't involve us in your politics". But then she goes on to involve herself in our politics by making a political commentary. As with the above regarding "not thinking about the U.S." it is inconsistent. If you don't want to be involved in U.S. politics, and by extension, discussions regarding U.S. politics, then don't interject yourself.

If Tez and Superkin didn't respond, who did you think would fill in the other side of the story? It wasn't a rhetorical question was it?

It was not about them not being able or not to comment. It was about saying "don't involve us", but then becoming involved.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

5-0 Kenpo, lets face it you have a problem with whatever I post wherever I post it so lets just not bother getting into an argument that bores everyone silly.

That's just not true. I have thanked you multiple times for your posts. In fact, when it comes to your reasoning regarding the "secrecy" of the information, and the fact that the UK was likely to know exactly what information the Obama Administration was going to give over, I find that what you say is highly likely.

What I despise though is this ridiculous argument that "the British don't think about the U.S.". It's B.S. because we have an impact upon your country, as yours does on us, so why wouldn't "the British" think about us, with varying degrees based on the impact that we have on the particular individual. That does not mean that those in the UK don't think of the U.S. at all, as evidenced by your own admission that we have a reputation in the UK. You were logically inconsistent in that point.

Governments screw each other all the time, what do you expect, honour among thieves?

Absolutely. Not only that, but they screw their own citizens when it suits their purpose.

If the OP is going to address the couple of British posters here as 'Britain' well, what did you think you were going to get?

If you had kept to your original premise regarding the nature of politics, I would have not said a word. But you had to go and add a totally erroneous premise afterward.

 

[K-man]

The reference was perfectly acceptable considering the topic. It was to illustrate a point. The fact is that Tez continuously tells us what "the British" think and feel. I used her arguments made when speaking of Judaism to back my point, and to further show the inconsistency of her arguement. It was perfectly on topic. If you don't like it, fine, but your opinion is then irrelevant as to the relevancy of what I am saying and it's appropriateness to the discussion.

What's also interesting is the her comment was directly related to ethnicity, her ethnicity as a UK subject. She is giving that ethnic perspective. So why can she talk about that ethnicity, but I am forbidden to speak about her consistent illogical reasoning with regard to such subjects.

Tez is British and is responding from that position. Her Jewish background has nothing to do with the thread or any of the posts in it. You brought it up and to me it smacks of racism and I'm sorry, I don't like racist references.

You second point is totally wrong. The British population is not an ethnic race. They, like many Americans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders are of perhaps Celtic origins or more recently Picts or Scots, Saxons or Normans. So she is speaking from a British perspective, not an ethnic one.

No it wasn't. This was a post from an anti-Obama person to try to show how he is undermining supportive relationships with other governments. There was no real question involved.

Why label to poster 'anti Obama'? It's a fair question from anyone of any political persuasion. Why is Obama upsetting allies that have stood by the US in good times and in bad? To me that is bad politics.

The point I was making was that Tez stated, "don't involve us in your politics". But then she goes on to involve herself in our politics by making a political commentary. As with the above regarding "not thinking about the U.S." it is inconsistent. If you don't want to be involved in U.S. politics, and by extension, discussions regarding U.S. politics, then don't interject yourself.

Tez hasn't involved herself in US politics. She is commenting on the topic of the OP and pointing out that regardless of what the US Government does, it won't affect the feelings the British people have for the American people. She also pointed out, quite rightly, that it doesn't matter what Britain thinks about Obama, the Brits don't vote in the US therefore they can't do anything to change things. Why concern yourself in issues that you can't change?

It was not about them not being able or not to comment. It was about saying "don't involve us", but then becoming involved.

Under duress! :asian:

 

[granfire]

A little sidenote:

US politics does effect the rest of the world in various degrees.

 

[Ramirez]

I don't know Kenpo, the thread asks Britain a question and Tez replies back with "we", doesn't seem to be a big deal.
I've answered questions aimed at Canadians (usually about health care) with "we" assuming whoever answered the question is going to know I am speaking in generalities.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh, and the British are going to change out those Tridents for subsonic, low altitude cruise missiles....there, now I've given away a "secret." :lfao:

OH MAN!!! You just CAN'T stop GIVING away secrets..CAN YOU...

Well I HOPE you happy now that you have put the ENTIRE free world in jeapordy :uhyeah:

 

[Xue Sheng]

A little sidenote:

US politics does effect the rest of the world in various degrees.

Yes everything from 0 degrees to 360

 

[K-man]

A little sidenote:

US politics does effect the rest of the world in various degrees.

Unfortunately, when the US sneezes the rest of us catch cold! :asian:

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Tez is British and is responding from that position. Her Jewish background has nothing to do with the thread or any of the posts in it. You brought it up and to me it smacks of racism and I'm sorry, I don't like racist references.

It has to go to the nature of her form of argumentation, which is a relevant to how she deals with religious as well as this issue. It was evidence to prove a point. She argues for the fact that Jews often disagree as to what various edicts of the religion are about, but then argues for a homogeneous statment regarding whether they "think about other religions." The same thing here, she argues that the British don't think about the US, but then goes on to show that we have a reputation there, showing that they, in fact, do think about us.

Interestingly enough, I was not actually referring to the ethnic nature of Jews in my post, but of the religious aspect of Judaism. Not everyone who follows Judaism is ethnically Jewish. Not only that, but not all Jews worship from in a traditionally Jewish perspective. There are many ethnic Jews who are of the Christian, or some other, faith.

It may smack of racism to you, but that is only if you look at what I said superficially.

You second point is totally wrong. The British population is not an ethnic race. They, like many Americans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders are of perhaps Celtic origins or more recently Picts or Scots, Saxons or Normans. So she is speaking from a British perspective, not an ethnic one.

ethinicity: (from websters)
1. relating to or characteristic of a human group having racial, religious, linguistic, and certain other traits in common

3. denoting or deriving from the cultural traditions of a group of people

So, yeah, I used it correctly, if broadly. She is making a generalization regarding the British people, who share religious, linguistic and certain other traits, if not completely racial traits, though most do share even that.

Why label to poster 'anti Obama'? It's a fair question from anyone of any political persuasion. Why is Obama upsetting allies that have stood by the US in good times and in bad? To me that is bad politics.

Uh, cuz it's billichak. He has made his views perfectly known. To ignore the fact that he disagrees with Obama's policys would be disingenuous. How come I get challenged when I bring it up, but when others have, nothing is said?

Tez hasn't involved herself in US politics.

Well, let's examine this. Somehow, individual citizens discussing politics, and bringing up the nature of Obama and his policies involving the UK is "involving" them in our politics. No actual policy thing is done, but just a discussion over it, somehow involves them. That is her perspective. So by then interjecting herself into the discussion, by her definition that a debate is considered "involvement", she is involving herself into US politics.

She is commenting on the topic of the OP and pointing out that regardless of what the US Government does, it won't affect the feelings the British people have for the American people. She also pointed out, quite rightly, that it doesn't matter what Britain thinks about Obama, the Brits don't vote in the US therefore they can't do anything to change things. Why concern yourself in issues that you can't change?

And how would she know. Quite frankly, I don't deign to speak for all Americans, then how can she then speak for all Britons? Did she take a poll? Is she all-knowing? Are the British that homogeneous in thought that, by extension, she knows what they are thinking?

Beyond which, that was never my point. You brought up everything that she said but what I challenged, which is that "the British don't think about the US", which has to be patently false, based on her own statements.

Which is fine if she is speaking for herself. It is not fine when she makes blanket statements about all British.

Under duress! :asian:

The duress of being bored. I guess I can understand that. It's about the only thing that makes me come back here.

 

[K-man]

And how would she know. Quite frankly, I don't deign to speak for all Americans, then how can she then speak for all Britons? Did she take a poll? Is she all-knowing? Are the British that homogeneous in thought that, by extension, she knows what they are thinking?

Beyond which, that was never my point. You brought up everything that she said but what I challenged, which is that "the British don't think about the US", which has to be patently false, based on her own statements.

Which is fine if she is speaking for herself. It is not fine when she makes blanket statements about all British.

If one has the luxury of time, you can read the papers, listen to the news, talk with neighbours and friends and get a pretty fair feel for the mood of the populace. I can tell you pretty much what Australians think about different issues, even if there may be two points of view. For example, most Australians are in favour of a Republic. The minority wish to retain the Monarchy. The reason there is no republic is because the pro-republic people can't agree on the type of Republic to adopt. So we will stay with the Monarchy for the present. Now I have told you what Australians think. That's a blanket statement but is it biased? Which side do I support?

As to, "Is she all knowing?"

Yep! Probably ... she's a woman!

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

If one has the luxury of time, you can read the papers, listen to the news, talk with neighbours and friends and get a pretty fair feel for the mood of the populace. I can tell you pretty much what Australians think about different issues, even if there may be two points of view. For example, most Australians are in favour of a Republic. The minority wish to retain the Monarchy. The reason there is no republic is because the pro-republic people can't agree on the type of Republic to adopt. So we will stay with the Monarchy for the present. Now I have told you what Australians think. That's a blanket statement but is it biased? Which side do I support?

As to, "Is she all knowing?"

Yep! Probably ... she's a woman!

Qualifiers which she doesn't use. Usually ever.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I don't know Kenpo, the thread asks Britain a question and Tez replies back with "we", doesn't seem to be a big deal.
I've answered questions aimed at Canadians (usually about health care) with "we" assuming whoever answered the question is going to know I am speaking in generalities.

Without having a particular example to cite without looking through your posts, I would venture to say that you were more likely to say "most" or "alot", etc, qualifiers which she doesn't use.

Either way, the larger part of the issue that I have is the "the British don't think about the US". I call B.S.

 

[Blade96]

A fuzzy, mostly worthless little dog?

they're so cute though

 

[mook jong man]

I think the more important question is -

Obama, do you still think Britain likes YOU?

 

[Tez3]

Lets face it, posting something on here addressing it to the British is only going to have me and Sukerkin answer isn't it? If we post anything degrogatory or even just criticising your president we'll get all sorts of stuff coming back at us. At least I'm polite and diplomatic when I talk about Americans.

Am I right about the Brits not caring much about what Obama is up to? More than likely after all as it's been pointed out this Russian missile thing hasn't made the news or the other newpapers.
Today's papers, note what stories are from America and what they are about.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/


So I'm Jewish and I'm a female, get over it. My post are my views, they are individual, idiosyncratic, most are tongue in cheek and if you don't like the way they are phrased I'm sorry but I'm not changing because someone feels I'm not politically correct enough.

The British do think about the Americans but probably don't spend enough time thinking about them to please some.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think the more important question is -

Obama, do you still think Britain likes YOU?

:jaw-dropping: WHAT!!!! :xtrmshock Well them thar be fighten words...oh its on now :flammad: Now Its TUISHOU (Chi sau for you Wing Chun types) and 20 paces Mister :uhyeah:

I actually feel the important question would be...do either of them care at all? :shrug:

Later :ubercool:

 

[Tez3]

A more productive discussion might have been had if the OP hadn't been so sensationalised. simple addressing the Brits on here was inviting comments that were going to be taken the wrong way.
Billcihak posts such statements as all left wingers are violent and unhappy, no exemptions while right wingers are happy and peaceful folk. He holds socialists alone to blame for the deaths of millions and right wingers can do no wrong, he calls people who lean to the left in their politics 'lefties' with as much scorn as he can muster, so the discussion is thrown off balance to start with, he wants to stir things up here to start yet another 'socialism is evil' thread.
By refusing to get stirred up about the antics of one American president and not pouring the scorn he expected on Obama's head the thread ran out of steam for him.
However if we had ranted on about how badly treated we were by Obama it would have caused more upset to Americans who while not liking Obama would have felt duty bound to defend their president. It is a fact that we can slag off our own politicians and leaders as much as we like but when someone else does it we get annoyed, even if the 'foreigners' are saying the same as we are!

At least Mrs Obama doesn't hate us lol, she wears posh frocks from here!

Hand on heart who actually every day sits and thinks about people in other countries and their politics, who doesn't let a day go by without thinking 'ah I wonder what the British/American government is up to', the truth is we are all so involved in our everyday lives that we rarely spare a thought for these things unless it's pointed out to us as here and we feel like saying something. We have jobs and homes to worry about, recessions, holidays, university fees, the dog to walk, so many other things to be concerned about than what a head of state of another country is doing.

Anyway,Trident is old and creaky, we'll probably sell it to the Russians in 2016, I expect Obama is the sales rep and working for his commision.

 

[Sukerkin]

I appreciate your point, Tez but in response to:

"Hand on heart who actually every day sits and thinks about people in other countries and their politics"

Well, I do actually - it's why I end up being drawn into the Study time and time again . Everything, is politics at the end of the day and, whilst I can do nothing about the state of the world, I do like to keep informed and have an opinion on things :blushes:.

I reckon it's a hangover from my first years of higher education - doing politics and interntional relations as part of my economics degree clearly radicalised me :lol:.

 

[elder999]

AHand on heart who actually every day sits and thinks about people in other countries and their politics, who doesn't let a day go by without thinking 'ah I wonder what the British/American government is up to', .

I watch the BBC news once or twice a week during my morning exercises, and listen to the BBC every day on NPR on the way to or from work. I also read a few foreign papers online.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hand on heart who actually every day sits and thinks about people in other countries and their politics, who doesn't let a day go by without thinking 'ah I wonder what the British/American government is up to', the truth is we are all so involved in our everyday lives that we rarely spare a thought for these things unless it's pointed out to us as here and we feel like saying something. We have jobs and homes to worry about, recessions, holidays, university fees, the dog to walk, so many other things to be concerned about than what a head of state of another country is doing.

Actually Hand on heart I do... but then I have time... I don't have a dog to walk.

I tend to think about other countries often and I tend to end up in many a discussion about China since I my wife is from mainland China. And whenever I want to see somethig close to the real news I tend towards the BBC