Belt whipping and kiss the dragon

[drop bear104]

Well after all, a real man always hits someone who won't hit back. This all reminds me of the old Public School tradition of fagging.

A real man dosent hit a girl either. I will let our boxers know.

 

[Tez31]

A real man dosent hit a girl either. I will let our boxers know.

Ah deliberately twisting the comments, oh dear, I would hope no one would stand and hit anyone in the manner these instructors are male or female, equally bad whatever the gender. No, real men don't beat up women, real women don't beat up men either, however real men and women spar each other with a healthy respect and with a view to encouraging learning and improvement.


PS isn't it time you discovered women and left the girls behind?

 

[drop bear104]

Ah deliberately twisting the comments, oh dear, I would hope no one would stand and hit anyone in the manner these instructors are male or female, equally bad whatever the gender. No, real men don't beat up women, real women don't beat up men either, however real men and women spar each other with a healthy respect and with a view to encouraging learning and improvement.

PS isn't it time you discovered women and left the girls behind?

So hitting women in the gym with the intention of teaching encouragement and improvement is ok.

But there is no intention to encourage or improve when you hit someone to show their character and self control in a grading.

And what about Californian girls?

 

[Touch Of Death]

When the concept of a, "Real Man", comes up, there is usually some woman, ready with a definition, and a set of directions for him to follow. It is very counter-intuitive, if you think about it.

 

[Tez31]

But there is no intention to encourage or improve when you hit someone to show their character and self control in a grading.

What is shows about the character of people who are willing to hit someone who does not hit back is that they have no honour. People of integrity, (the 'real' man, 'real' woman thing is a nonsense) do not strike someone who is not going to strike back, it is cowardice.
There is no honour in striking someone who stands and allows one to hit them.
It doesn't teach self control nor character, it teaches cravenness and cowardliness.

You obviously think it's fine because it's oh so easy to hit a person who isn't going to hit you back.

 

[Touch Of Death]

What is shows about the character of people who are willing to hit someone who does not hit back is that they have no honour. People of integrity, (the 'real' man, 'real' woman thing is a nonsense) do not strike someone who is not going to strike back, it is cowardice.
There is no honour in striking someone who stands and allows one to hit them.
It doesn't teach self control nor character, it teaches cravenness and cowardliness.

You obviously think it's fine because it's oh so easy to hit a person who isn't going to hit you back.

Funny, I seem to remember everyone hitting back. They switch it up. Ya know.

 

[JR 137]

Wow. 6 pages on this. Most people think it's a stupid tradition and nothing more. Then we've got what constitutes a "real man" and "real woman" debating going on. I think we've hit rock bottom on the over-analysis category (excluding the keykorpz or whatever his name is guy).

I'm pretty sure if a student said they didn't want to be hit, they'd be handed their belt (or have it tied around their waist) like everyone else without any recourse.

 

[drop bear104]

What is shows about the character of people who are willing to hit someone who does not hit back is that they have no honour. People of integrity, (the 'real' man, 'real' woman thing is a nonsense) do not strike someone who is not going to strike back, it is cowardice.
There is no honour in striking someone who stands and allows one to hit them.
It doesn't teach self control nor character, it teaches cravenness and cowardliness.

You obviously think it's fine because it's oh so easy to hit a person who isn't going to hit you back.

You are grasping. We hit each other as a conditioning exercise. Without having the lack of self control that you have with your need to fight every body.

It is called learning maturity.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Wow. 6 pages on this. Most people think it's a stupid tradition and nothing more. Then we've got what constitutes a "real man" and "real woman" debating going on. I think we've hit rock bottom on the over-analysis category (excluding the keykorpz or whatever his name is guy).

I'm pretty sure if a student said they didn't want to be hit, they'd be handed their belt (or have it tied around their waist) like everyone else without any recourse.

No; they would have left the school, long before the moment of truth we happen to be discussing.

 

[drop bear104]

The example i showed was nate diaz. Who could have ended half those guys in that room.

I don't think he was some sort of victim

 

[jks919975]

That's not bullying because the student has the right to say no and leave straight away. No ones forcing them to stay Itd be bullying if he walked up and kicked them without warning. where i went if you really didnt want the kick you could say and they wouldnt do it They don't do it 100% but they make sure they know what it feels like, if you're teaching people how to fight and you're not teaching any contact at all then you're the one failing your students. Also sorry to burst your little bubble but 21 is not a child what does how old your kid is have to do with anything.

Initiation ceremonies like this occur in a lot of places, including some martial arts styles or schools. They happen in military training (blood wings/blood pinnings) and they happen in some LE units. There's a ton of social pressure to participate and not walk out -- even if they say "nobody will treat you differently if you walk out."

I won't say there's not a place in bonding and forming cohesion for this sort of thing. But you have to be careful; it's really easy for things to get out of control. I really think that anyone doing things like this needs to think long and hard about the purpose served -- especially if you're not talking about groups like elite military or LE units.

 

[Buka20]

What do real men do to appease forum members?

Real men do not care.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf104]

I havent read through all of this thread since its 6 pages long, but I've read enough to get the gist. The two arguments against this that I am seeing are that in general you get hurt more than this in sparring, and that it's hazing.

My issue is: Would it still be considered hazing, if they get worse in sparring? I get that it's a ritual, and that people may get hurt, but it's people who practice kyokushin (which assumes you will be hurt almost every class) so the belt whipping or the kick to the chest is really nothing new. If it's nothing new, and not as bad as the pain they normally have and even pay for, what part of it is hazing?

 

[Tez31]

They happen in military training (blood wings/blood pinnings) and they happen in some LE units.

I think along with the American system of fraternities in universities this is something that doesn't happen much outside the US. I know that in the British military there has never been a tradition of this in training nor in police training. It may well be the way things are organised or that it just died out a very long time ago. Perhaps too that it's just me being very British and thinking that hitting a person who cannot or will not fight back is neither sporting nor one something does if one has any sort of honour. Perhaps the modern people here think it's fine and I'm out of step. If I am, then I'm glad to be, if honour is old fashioned and anything goes if the new modern way to be then I will stay old fashioned. I will not nor will I condone someone being hit who does not fight back, however people justify it.

 

[drop bear104]

I think along with the American system of fraternities in universities this is something that doesn't happen much outside the US. I know that in the British military there has never been a tradition of this in training nor in police training. It may well be the way things are organised or that it just died out a very long time ago. Perhaps too that it's just me being very British and thinking that hitting a person who cannot or will not fight back is neither sporting nor one something does if one has any sort of honour. Perhaps the modern people here think it's fine and I'm out of step. If I am, then I'm glad to be, if honour is old fashioned and anything goes if the new modern way to be then I will stay old fashioned. I will not nor will I condone someone being hit who does not fight back, however people justify it.

The paras?

Yep. Everybody has Google these days.
PARAS' SICK BABOONING TORTURE

 

[Tez31]

You know that video was a set up right? the editor of the paper (Piers Morgan) was sacked for this an others. He/his reporters gave a load of civvies uniforms etc and had them doing things like this which would be reasonably harmless if he hadn't also set them up to look like they were torturing prisoners of war. Why do you think he went to America?

 

[Touch Of Death]

The paras?

Yep. Everybody has Google these days.
PARAS' SICK BABOONING TORTURE

Come again, Tez3

 

[drop bear104]

So. Ok. Was the ice bucket challenge a brutal degradation of human liberty then?

Because that was effectively hazing.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Anyways, I know there are few Kenpo, and possibly Kajukenbo classes in England. We will teach them to get over what ever it is you are talking about.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Proof of British Bullying.