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Billy Lear
Guest
I don't know, but in other arts there is such a thing as posthumous rank. Maybe that should be done in this case? Then nobody would "out rank" or claim the same rank as Mr. Parker. :asian:
Agendas, Kenpo Associations, & Grandmasters
- Thread starter Michael Billings
- Start date
I don't know, but in other arts there is such a thing as posthumous rank. Maybe that should be done in this case? Then nobody would "out rank" or claim the same rank as Mr. Parker. :asian:
Mr. Billings, thanks for posting such a spirited topic. This particular subject will always be touchy and incite endless debate. For some reason human beings have a need to place one person or thing at the top to try to define whatever "it" is someone is trying to achieve.
Too a certain extent this debate is a matter of semantics. It comes down to what does the individual believe the 10th degree means to them. If one asks 10 different kenpoists, there will be 10 different answers, some similiar and some wildly different. My personal view is this: Mr. Parker is the FOUNDER, no one will ever take that title (if they did it would be their own system, changed (85-90% from the system they learned). If there are kenpo seniors who want to take on the headaches and outside BS of claiming a 10th, then good luck to them. Over the last decade, the quality instructors have shown their skills and students have sought out those with whom they want to train.
I no longer care about what rank my instructor is. I care about the material that I am learning (and want to learn). Ultimately, the skill and quality will show on the mat.
But, it is fun to mix it up with others about the "hierarchy of kenpo".
Bardiche
Too a certain extent this debate is a matter of semantics. It comes down to what does the individual believe the 10th degree means to them. If one asks 10 different kenpoists, there will be 10 different answers, some similiar and some wildly different. My personal view is this: Mr. Parker is the FOUNDER, no one will ever take that title (if they did it would be their own system, changed (85-90% from the system they learned). If there are kenpo seniors who want to take on the headaches and outside BS of claiming a 10th, then good luck to them. Over the last decade, the quality instructors have shown their skills and students have sought out those with whom they want to train.
I no longer care about what rank my instructor is. I care about the material that I am learning (and want to learn). Ultimately, the skill and quality will show on the mat.
But, it is fun to mix it up with others about the "hierarchy of kenpo".
Bardiche
Wes Idol
Green Belt
My only assertions are that Pick is Ed Parker's premiere Kenpo Knife student, is one of Parker's oldest students, and one of the only AK seniors that actually started with Parker as a white belt...remaining with him to Parker's death.
As an honor I am allowed the opportunity to train under him as a student and share time as a friend.
Finally, this wonderous assertion that this AKTS is your first experience with being allowed to affiliate or train with other organizations is simply falsehood and incorrect on your part. While in the UKS you were afforded the very same opportunity...as I have. Bryan Hawkins has never made an issue of me training with, or traveling to, anyone I have chosen.
I appreciate your desire to post your passion, but you shouldn't do it at the expense of what is the truth.
WI, HI
UKS
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brianhunter
Guest
Originally posted by brianhunter
I have a few questions I hope some of you guys who have been around awhile can hopefully answer......
1) How long was Mr Parker training before he earned his black belt?
2) How long was Mr Parker at the art when he decided to break off and impliment his own system of kenpo?
3) How long at the art was he when he donned a 10th?
These have probably been beat to death, but this would definately put some things in perspective for me
Thanks
Brian
Anyone??
OP
- Thread Starter
- #25
I was not besmirching the UKS, and do not appreciate your putting those words in my mouth, or post as the case may be. I never said the AKTS was my:
I would not demean Bryan Hawkins, the UKS, or Mr. Pick. If this is what you read into my post, then the issues may need either clarification or interpretation. Feel free to chime in, you have lots of experience in the Kenpo World and are associated with lots of the Seniors or instructors I know and respect. My split with the UKS was strictly what I said in my letter of resignation. I harbored no ill feelings what so ever. Any who think that I stated otherwise, feel free to contact me via PM, email, or phone. That includes you Wes!
Once again, I am not attacking any individual or Association, but rather trying to approach a topic that is hard to discuss without some concrete examples. I said nothing derogatory about Mr. Pick or your defense of him, not that he needs that, rather I used the "process" that you have had to go through on forums as an example of a contentious serpent's nest of feelings and opinions. I am glad you are his student. I have nothing but respect for you or the only other Mr. Pick student I know, Marcus Bonfigliano.
That does not invalidate my perception or point. 10th huh? What is it about this rank that puts everyone on the defensive? This reaction itself exemplifies part of the problem. I personally think if you deserve it, wear it proudly. Heck, I am not judging who does or does not deserve it. I reserve the right to my own opinion, but what does "bother" or perhaps "concern" me, is the Kenpo World we exist in. Conflictual, argumentative, some egotistical stances, that actually serves to further frission the incendiary relationships already fragmented.
Solutions, perceptions, analysis, etc. is what I am looking for. Don't read something in that was not intended Wes. I heard about the other thread regarding you and Mr. Pick, but have not even read it yet as I was out of town since last Wednesday.
Hope this clarifies, if not feel free to call. Don't assume I do not know who my friends are, or that I would attack you, the UKS, Mr. Pick, or Bryan Hawkins. I WAS NOT. Your reaction concerns me however. Sorry if you felt like I was making something personal out of it. I have lots of other experiences outside the UKS "family", and remember, I was way out here in Texas, supporting the UKS as much as I could, while still being a "distant relative" of the family, at best.
Yours in Kenpo,
-Michael Billings
I would not demean Bryan Hawkins, the UKS, or Mr. Pick. If this is what you read into my post, then the issues may need either clarification or interpretation. Feel free to chime in, you have lots of experience in the Kenpo World and are associated with lots of the Seniors or instructors I know and respect. My split with the UKS was strictly what I said in my letter of resignation. I harbored no ill feelings what so ever. Any who think that I stated otherwise, feel free to contact me via PM, email, or phone. That includes you Wes!
Once again, I am not attacking any individual or Association, but rather trying to approach a topic that is hard to discuss without some concrete examples. I said nothing derogatory about Mr. Pick or your defense of him, not that he needs that, rather I used the "process" that you have had to go through on forums as an example of a contentious serpent's nest of feelings and opinions. I am glad you are his student. I have nothing but respect for you or the only other Mr. Pick student I know, Marcus Bonfigliano.
That does not invalidate my perception or point. 10th huh? What is it about this rank that puts everyone on the defensive? This reaction itself exemplifies part of the problem. I personally think if you deserve it, wear it proudly. Heck, I am not judging who does or does not deserve it. I reserve the right to my own opinion, but what does "bother" or perhaps "concern" me, is the Kenpo World we exist in. Conflictual, argumentative, some egotistical stances, that actually serves to further frission the incendiary relationships already fragmented.
Solutions, perceptions, analysis, etc. is what I am looking for. Don't read something in that was not intended Wes. I heard about the other thread regarding you and Mr. Pick, but have not even read it yet as I was out of town since last Wednesday.
Hope this clarifies, if not feel free to call. Don't assume I do not know who my friends are, or that I would attack you, the UKS, Mr. Pick, or Bryan Hawkins. I WAS NOT. Your reaction concerns me however. Sorry if you felt like I was making something personal out of it. I have lots of other experiences outside the UKS "family", and remember, I was way out here in Texas, supporting the UKS as much as I could, while still being a "distant relative" of the family, at best.
Yours in Kenpo,
-Michael Billings
Wes Idol
Green Belt
Your "mass contridictions" is based on what? Dennis claiming his one conversation with one or two people? It is quite clear that many were going to be promoted to 8th by Parker in 1991. Tom Bleeker heard many of The Journey honorees speak of the happenings (all of which is on tape). Once again you should get some of your facts together before you start character assasinating others.
WI, HI
UKS
WI, HI
UKS
OP
- Thread Starter
- #27
Some of your questions have been answered on other threads. I recommend going to the Q & A where Mr. Conatser is graciously attempting to answer any relevant, and some irreverant, questions. He can clear up any history questions you have.
Oss,
-Michael
Oss,
-Michael
OP
- Thread Starter
- #28
Regarding your second post, and assertion I am engaging in character assasination.
-Michael
-Michael
B
Billy Lear
Guest
You are?
Wes Idol
Green Belt
B
Billy Lear
Guest
WHOOPS... NEVER MIND... I THOUGHT YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE ENGAGING IN CHARACTER ASSASSINATION... MY BAD.
Wow!!! this is getting interesting! As an observation, I believe that most of you missunderstood what Mr. Billings was looking for? But hopefully through friction can come some resolution. I personally did not see any attacks on any Individuals or Organizations? But maybe I missed something. I am curious to know though, Do you think that if the Kenpo world came together under one HEAD that the people within the Organization (for lack of better terms) would truly be happy? I believe that (like in life) there are too many INDIVIDUALS as we can see from the responses to this post, to have a large Organization again. The whole 10th degree thing comes back to the same problem, The individuals that are, all have a different reason or logic for being such. Since there was never any mandate set by MR. Parker himself, there will never (I'm afraid) be a resolution, for this particular (problem?) phenomenon. I do however think that in the future the NOW Seniors will probably have some sort of mandate for this to avoid further confusion and problems in the future with their students.
This is just my observation, most of you don't know me, but feel free to attack at will.
:asian: :asian:
Have a Nice Day!!!
This is just my observation, most of you don't know me, but feel free to attack at will.
:asian: :asian:
Have a Nice Day!!!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #33
... but Wes, whether or not I was referring to the UKS or not ... and I was not, it was still not a personal attack or attempt to assasinate anyone's character. You have read enough of those kind of posts to know the flavor of them. Should I have a problem with someone, I take it to them, like I did just now with you.
I think maybe you assume the UKS was all the input or info I have heard over the years, or the only organization or association that I was referring to, it was not. This post is a result of years of observation, experiences, friends ... and sometimes not friends ... complaints or frustrations. Not to mention the MartialTalk and KenpoNet forums, which I just barely scratch the surface of.
Yes, I do see how you could read it as a criticism of the UKS. But I was not laying that at your or Bryan's door, or I would have laid it directly in front of you. I am concerned you took it so personally and aggressively responded, rather than asking the questions of me. This is an example of how a lot of people react to cross-association disagreements. I almost prefer it to a campaign of innuendo and rumors, but neither is an approach that leads to solutions, but rather continues to increase the friction.
Oss,
-Michael
I think maybe you assume the UKS was all the input or info I have heard over the years, or the only organization or association that I was referring to, it was not. This post is a result of years of observation, experiences, friends ... and sometimes not friends ... complaints or frustrations. Not to mention the MartialTalk and KenpoNet forums, which I just barely scratch the surface of.
Yes, I do see how you could read it as a criticism of the UKS. But I was not laying that at your or Bryan's door, or I would have laid it directly in front of you. I am concerned you took it so personally and aggressively responded, rather than asking the questions of me. This is an example of how a lot of people react to cross-association disagreements. I almost prefer it to a campaign of innuendo and rumors, but neither is an approach that leads to solutions, but rather continues to increase the friction.
Oss,
-Michael
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lonekimono
Guest
Hey mike i thought i had it bad this weekend after the kenpo camp i was at, anyway i feel better lol.
and i want to say hello to an old friend (kenpo prof)
hope all is well.
yours in kenpo:asian:
and i want to say hello to an old friend (kenpo prof)
hope all is well.
yours in kenpo:asian:
L
lonekimono
Guest
one more thing FIGHT NICE
yours in kenpo
yours in kenpo
D_Brady
Purple Belt
Lonekimono, People didn't play nice at camp?
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lonekimono
Guest
the camp was not bad at all, it was this one person that was a pain in the a@# other than that i had a great time,
yours in kenpo
ps i could tell you more but not on the this post.
yours in kenpo
ps i could tell you more but not on the this post.
Dun Ringill
Yellow Belt
Is anybody else getting tired of listening to Wes Idol? Mr. Idol maybe you should go back to the kenponet. I read the way you treated Mr. Conatser and now Mr. Billings and your lack of protocol and respect makes me sick.
oss
oss
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RCastillo
Guest
Let's not venure out of Texas, Billy Lear's waiting for us, along with the Masta of Disasta Trejo!:anic:
As long as we stay in bounds, we're safe!
As long as we stay in bounds, we're safe!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #40
Given the responses to my post, they may actually make an effort to come and get me. If so I am heading South to the coast.
Did you notice that within 24 hours this thread got over 600 "Views" - not 600 people, but looked at over 600 times. But only 36 responses (at that time.) Lots of interest apparently, but some hesitancy about jumping in the water. I would say the water is fine, but you can see for yourself, sometimes it gets a little chilly. Other times it is great for swimming.
Oss All,
-Michael
Did you notice that within 24 hours this thread got over 600 "Views" - not 600 people, but looked at over 600 times. But only 36 responses (at that time.) Lots of interest apparently, but some hesitancy about jumping in the water. I would say the water is fine, but you can see for yourself, sometimes it gets a little chilly. Other times it is great for swimming.
Oss All,
-Michael
