6 Year old BB to join our school (Just a rant/story I need to tell--long)

arnisador

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God help my kid when I start training him, poor kid is gonna be a white belt forever :erg:

Yup, mine was a white belt from when he was about 11 or 12 (I forget exactly when we started getting formal about training) to less than a month before his 17th birthday.
 

granfire

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Yup, mine was a white belt from when he was about 11 or 12 (I forget exactly when we started getting formal about training) to less than a month before his 17th birthday.

LOL an he actually stuck with it?!
 

FieldDiscipline

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Well, that's a bit strong, but I know what you mean.

More than a bit strong. You cant tar everyone with the same brush.

I disagree. Judo does not have this kind of reputation, and doesn't give black belts to 6 year olds. It also isn't nearly as prevalent in jujutsu, and even Karate as a rule has less of it than TKD, in my experience. Every art has some of this, but TKD has much more than most.

Whilst there is a degree of this perception problem in GB, from what I see on here it certainly seems to be a much more prevalent problem in the US.

Well I can name atleast twenty five school in the metroplex that have blue belt kids in judo maybe not six but eight and they are on the competition team, also alot of the Karate school here have BB as young as five, maybe they are juniors like my bb below 15 are but still people have them. I am not here to get into a pissing match but in the metroplex we have alot of McDojo's [snip]

I dont think its art specific, more an indication of how society is going. Its a now now now culture.

LOL an he actually stuck with it?!

And thats the problem, there has to be something for the majority of kids to aim at. That's the advantage of the kukkiwon poom grade setup. If they changed it so that conversion required a re-test at the equivalent Dan rank, then I think that is the best of both worlds. Something to aim for, with the distinction that they are not full dan grades.
 
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miguksaram

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yeah, BUT

the STINK is on everyone that calls themselves TKD

I think this is more reflected on TKD because there are more TKD schools than other schools. If you look at the pecentages of schools that are belt mills I would take a lucky guess and say that the problem is evenly spread throughout the majority of the styles out there.
 

arnisador

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Yup, mine was a white belt from when he was about 11 or 12 (I forget exactly when we started getting formal about training) to less than a month before his 17th birthday.

LOL an he actually stuck with it?!

Yup! I was his instructor, though my instructor graded him to lakan (black belt)! We practiced at home, plus he attended a JKD-Kali/BJJ school where they did give out belts (but didn't accept students younger than 14).
 

dancingalone

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I will began teaching my son when he is old enough - perhaps 10 or so. Earlier than that and I believe I would have to modify the material too much for it to be worthwhile to me or him.

And yes, my son will have a LONG time between belts, even of the colored variety, and yes he WILL stick with it. My house, my rules. Part of being a parent is doing what is best for him even when he doesn't want it. This can mean chores as well as making sure he doesn't run around with unsupervised and undisciplined children. I believe we used to call this parenting before all the new age psychology garbage took over our educational systems.
 

CDKJudoka

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Judo doesn't issue a black belt to ANYONE under the age of 17. And the Junior brown belts do not translate when they go from Junior to Senior ranking. And the only reason why there are more TKD kid BBs than any other style is because more people in the US practise TKD than any other striking art.
 

dancingalone

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And the only reason why there are more TKD kid BBs than any other style is because more people in the US practise TKD than any other striking art.

That's one of the main reasons but surely not the only reason. I think it's fair to say TKD has MORE than its share of McDojangs. I guess it's a case of the chicken or the egg...
 

Daniel Sullivan

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My feeling on black belts is this: One test to rule them all.

In other words, the test is the same regardless of who takes it or how old they are. The test should be geared to and challenging for the average adult student (16+). It should be a rigourous test. If a twelve year old can pass that test, then kudos, give him his belt. If an eighty three year old great grandmother can pass it, give her her belt.

That way, there is no ageism issues. The instructor should then simply inform the student that they are ready or not ready to test. That avoids kids or elderly students who are not able to withstand blows from adult students getting seriously injured during the sparring segment of the test.

In my view, a black belt is a sign that the student has learned, is proficient in, and can make practical use of the system, whatever it is. Realistically, there are physical requirements to being able to do that. Being youthful or elderly certainly can impact one's physical ability to execute the techniques proficiently.

A black belt should be able to practically use the system against anyone, regardless of age. Not beat anyone, but make practical use of the system (blocks, kicks, punches, footwork, etc.).

Daniel
 

arnisador

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I think it's a marketing success. There are plenty of McDojos (Fred Villari, anyone?) but the TKDers recognized the business necessity of teaching children early and the idea spread most rapidly through that community.

By no means is it limited to TKD, and I know there are TKD schools with solid standards out there! But Judo is a sport art that has kept higher standards for its black belt, for example. It's also a lot less popular, for a number of reasons.
 
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miguksaram

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I'm not one to revive a dead thread, but I ran across this one and thought I would give you all an update. The little 6 year old, now going on 8, has not only kept with it, but she has become a dojo rat. :) Plus she gave up her black belt willingly and started at the bottom of our ranking system. This was after she took our orange belt test (8th gup/kyu), which is our first test we give, and she told her mom that it was almost as hard as her black belt test was.

Now going on a year and a half she has achieved her blue belt (6th gup/kyu) and will hopefully test for her green in a couple of months. She has made some great progress and has also become a great competitor. Along with her came another student from the same school who started a few months after she did. Some scenario, except he didn't take his black belt test. He is now a yellow belt (7th gup/kyu) on track for his blue belt at the end of the month.

I'm very proud of them because they could have kept their previous rank but instead, on their own accounts, chose to start at the beginning and work their way back up.
 

Master Dan

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It been so long I can't remember if I ever say any children let alone even teen agers when I started but I do remeber you had to be 18 to recieve a 1st Dan and most everybody was 21 26 or orlder and avearge of 4-6 years and that was training 5-6 days a week 3-5 hours then you had to train full time the last six months and break one full size fire brick knife hand besides all the other stuff.

Commercialization of the art has led the meaning of bb to get watered down to almost nothing giving monkeys a black belt a 6 year old? why not.

Parents thinking they should be incharge of teaching decisions and comparing prices like shopping at Walmart. I have always told my students you cannot buy what I know you have to earn it. And that goes for all trades no master tradesman will share what they truly know just because a person shows up paid thier dues. Time Respect hard work loyalty that is the only currency of true MA
 

Daniel Sullivan

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That is indeed wonderful news! This young lady, if she sticks with it, will be fantastic as she gets older. And kudos to the young fella that started fresh as well.

Daniel
 

bluewaveschool

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My current rule is 1st degree recommend no earlier than 16, decided at 18. It was 18 for BB period, but 1st recommend was dropped specifically for me, as I was ready for it at 17. Since I got my BB only 6 other people have made it that far. One was an exception and made 1st recommended at 13, but he was technically more sound that anyone I've ever trained with, and mature way beyond his age. Kids I have now? Not a chance in hell of any of them making black before 16.
 

granfire

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well, the little ones do surprise you every once in a while! ^_^
 

Daniel Sullivan

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My current rule is 1st degree recommend no earlier than 16, decided at 18. It was 18 for BB period, but 1st recommend was dropped specifically for me, as I was ready for it at 17. Since I got my BB only 6 other people have made it that far. One was an exception and made 1st recommended at 13, but he was technically more sound that anyone I've ever trained with, and mature way beyond his age. Kids I have now? Not a chance in hell of any of them making black before 16.
If you don't mind my asking, what is the difference between a recommended and a decided black belt? I have only ever heard of this in ATA schools, but the ATA does not put age restrictions on black belts the way that you describe above.

Also, your post intimates that the thirteen year old made recommended but not decided at the age of thirteen. How long does he remain a recommended BB. You also say that none of the other kids will make black belt before sixteen. So does that mean that a recommended black belt is a black belt?

Not picking at you; just curious.

Daniel
 
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