6 Year old BB to join our school (Just a rant/story I need to tell--long)

Tez3

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I think the article at http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=68150&in_page_id=34 is a classic example of the media misrepresenting the facts.

Although the article headline is "Martial Archie becomes youngest black belt", there are a couple of quotes which make me wonder what they mean, exactly.

"he is the youngest of just 15 to have reached junior black belt"
"Because of his progress, he will skip through two grades in his new class, and will begin as a yellow stripe next year."

This seems to be similar to a system run by my club, where the kids rank in a separate system and get belts which are white with a coloured stripe through them. When they enter the adult class they go straight to yellow belt. We don't have any 6 year old black belts though!

Not to be unkind to the Metro (without it I'd actually have to look at the other people on London Underground... eugh), but it looks like they've latched on to "black belt" and tried to make a story out of it.

You beat me to it! I was going to post much the same that he isn't keeping the grade at all and it's only a junior one at that.
Still not to be unkind to Wiltshire lol but things are a tad shall we say 'slower' down there!
 

FieldDiscipline

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Doesn't sit right does it? I realise that there needs to be something to aim for for juniors. I think the Kukkiwon Poom grade idea is a good one, although I don't think conversion to Dan should be automatic. That age though...
 

Tez3

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Doesn't sit right does it? I realise that there needs to be something to aim for for juniors. I think the Kukkiwon Poom grade idea is a good one, although I don't think conversion to Dan should be automatic. That age though...

I expect the money made from the gradings is good though!
 

terryl965

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Yea other arts have the same problems, we as instructor should be setting the bar high and remember a child is a junior and then needs to re-test as an adult.
 

FieldDiscipline

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I expect the money made from the gradings is good though!

I tried not to cast nasturtiums (!). But, yeah, thats what I thought.

There was another southern association that had 10, yes 10, different colour patterned doboks depending on what position you hold. That and some of the other things I read didn't impress I'm afraid. That being my first intro to Choi Kwang Do and all. I'm sure there are some good ones though...
 

Tez3

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I tried not to cast nasturtiums (!). But, yeah, thats what I thought.

There was another southern association that had 10, yes 10, different colour patterned doboks depending on what position you hold. That and some of the other things I read didn't impress I'm afraid. That being my first intro to Choi Kwang Do and all. I'm sure there are some good ones though...

LOL! There's always some nugget out there who thinks it's a quick and easy way to make money but for every one of them I'm sure theres a few genuine,proper instructors out there.
Mind, they teach public speaking as well lol, I'm quite impressed!
 

girlbug2

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As for the original topic, I make it a practice to not accept students from other schools. Over the years, every time I have made an exception, it has come back to bite me. A lot of the time you end up trying to fix bad habits, or dealing with the "but my other instructor taught me this way" issue.

I understand how it would be annoying and frustrating to retrain bad habits, etc. But does that mean that if some kid came to your school wanting to learn, and he had perhaps spent a few months training in karate somewhere else, you would refuse to accept him because he was, shall we say, ruined forever? If all instructors took that attitude there would be precious few students out there that qualify for anybody to teach--what with moving and all these days. Most every kid ends up dabbling a little here and there for a short while before later finding their permanent school.
 

Steve

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The more I read, the more I realise what a considerable body of water the Atlantic is ...

Here's a website that lists 7 black belts that are under 8 years old. Only one is from the USA: http://youngblackbelts.tripod.com/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/6181287.stm Anyone want to wager that, a few years after the above story, Mollie is a 4 year old black belt? I'd bet those odds.

Here's a 10 year old: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/mid_/3030243.stm

This is a problem everywhere.
 

Stac3y

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My ten year old son may be a junior black belt by the time he turns 12. Before you freak, re-read that, please. I said JUNIOR black belt. It's a way different animal.

In my club, the kids have a different curriculum. Their black belt test is grueling (though not so bad as the adults' test!) Their black belts look different (they have a white stripe in the middle), and they start over at white belt when they move up to the adult class at 13. Most of the kids don't make it to jr bb. To be nominated to test, they must have an excellent understanding of the material (including history and a small amount of theory), have shown a sustained level of commitment, good attitude, and maintain good grades in school, and must be able to perform all techniques, etc. well. To make it through the test without giving up, they have to have pretty rigorous conditioning.

I don't know if my sons will make it to jr bb or not. Why? Because it's HARD, and they are KIDS. They may choose to move up to the adult classes without testing for jr bb. The jr bbs I've spent time with are fully capable of teaching techniques to lower belt adults (though sometimes the adults lack the respect to take the instruction.) Kids that can make it to jr bb show a remarkable maturity and drive for their ages. We don't take them until age 6, so around 11 or twelve is about as soon as they can hope to test for jr bb.

I am in no way advocating giving kids black belts that are considered equivalent to those of adult black belts, but I don't have a problem with kids earning junior black belts if they have completed their curriculum and are held to a rigorous standard in testing.
 

arnisador

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the STINK is on everyone that calls themselves TKD

Well, that's a bit strong, but I know what you mean.

Same with karate, Judo, Kenpo, Jujitsu and alot of other arts.

I disagree. Judo does not have this kind of reputation, and doesn't give black belts to 6 year olds. It also isn't nearly as prevalent in jujutsu, and even Karate as a rule has less of it than TKD, in my experience. Every art has some of this, but TKD has much more than most.
 

arnisador

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My ten year old son may be a junior black belt by the time he turns 12. Before you freak, re-read that, please. I said JUNIOR black belt. It's a way different animal.

If that were so, it'd be given a different name. We don't give kids a junior bachelor's degree when they graduate high school. They call it a junior BLACK BELT for a reason--they know what people will think when they hear that.
 

terryl965

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Well, that's a bit strong, but I know what you mean.



I disagree. Judo does not have this kind of reputation, and doesn't give black belts to 6 year olds. It also isn't nearly as prevalent in jujutsu, and even Karate as a rule has less of it than TKD, in my experience. Every art has some of this, but TKD has much more than most.

Well I can name atleast twenty five school in the metroplex that have blue belt kids in judo maybe not six but eight and they are on the competition team, also alot of the Karate school here have BB as young as five, maybe they are juniors like my bb below 15 are but still people have them. I am not here to get into a pissing match but in the metroplex we have alot of McDojo's maybe more than everywhere except florida and california. You are probaly right about Jujitsu so my apology, just trying to say there are alot of kids programs out here and alot are in the form of rec centers, I get2-3 new kids a month from them and all of them are bb and I have to tell them to put back ona white belt because they know nothing and what they do know is bad. Bitter I am yes and tired of these so called instructor just filling people mind with what they want to hear instead of what they need to know.
 

Stac3y

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If that were so, it'd be given a different name. We don't give kids a junior bachelor's degree when they graduate high school. They call it a junior BLACK BELT for a reason--they know what people will think when they hear that.

In my organization, it is the highest rank a kid can achieve as a kid. It looks different, has different requirements, and has a different name: Junior Black Belt; NOT Black Belt. Personally, I could give a crap what outsiders think about it, and I don't go around advertising my rank (or my kids') to people who haven't a clue about what it takes to get to that rank.

No one with any sense would think that a junior black belt (and no, we don't say it in small letters) is the same as an adult black belt. I think the junior/senior split is a sensible way to allow kids to advance within their peer student group, and believe me, they KNOW they will go back to white when they move up to adult classes. And believe me, no 6 year old would ever be able to pass the test our junior black belts have to take.

I do NOT believe that kids should achieve black belt rank that is equivalent to adult rank. We require students to be 16 or older (judging from most of the teenagers I know, 16 is still too young, but nothing's perfect) to test for a "real" black belt.
 

just2kicku

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In our org. the highest rank you'll see a kid is brown belt. If they make brown at 14, guess what, you are a brown till at least 16.

God help my kid when I start training him, poor kid is gonna be a white belt forever :erg:
 
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