5 year old black belts?

[terryl965]

Thanks Terry. But what about other organizations? Do you have children that reach bb? What happens next? When they are ready to move on? Obviously kids are training to their level. As they age, they must continue training to their level. So, are they eternal black belts, or do they enter the next phase as white? I'm talking about legit schools here, not mcdojo buying rank.

Here comes the problem with the Kukkiwon at 15 they can simply pay a fee and get there Dan rank with no more training. Now my three sons will go though an adult training period before they can get there BB as an adult but unfortunite as it might be other can simply re apply for that rank even if they stop training at age 12, when they hit 15 they can have it changed over.

I cannot speak for every org. I just know what the Kukkiwon does and that is how I go, they make there rule and I just follow. Well you know me not really follow anybody. I have been lucky everybody I have even given a Poom rank to is still at my school, so they are willing to put the time in. It must be how I teach them about there training and what it really means.

 

[Bret Hinds]

For 25.00 you can go to Wal-mart and get a Black -Belt kit in the toy section. A five year old Black Belt is a cruel joke to the parents , But some McDojangs need the money I take it as a insult to my students who work hard for there rank. To see a five year old that is filled with false pride is fraud. Our school has a little dragon class for 5 to 6 year olds It is a chore just for them just to stand at cunbi. I guess I will jump of my soap box,sorry if I insulted anyone. All the best in the arts

 

[TX_BB]

Just a trivial aside, I remember judging a 9 year old 3rd degree once. She was the best 3rd I saw all day at that state championship. Granted there was probably only 8 competitors for the whole day and she was 1 of 4 kids but was impressive to see a young lady withthat kind of knoweldge, intensity, discipline and composurer.

I later found out that she was in the dojang for about 3 hours per day and Dad and Grandpa were relatively strick with her. Yes, her certification was definetly valid from the KKW. She probably got her 1st at 4.

 

[wade]

To go from 1st Dan to 3rd Dan according to the KKW takes a minimum of 3 years, not counting the time as an under belt to earn your KKW 1st Dan certification. So, if the young lady was a 3rd she would have to have gotten her 1st at 6. Also, since a KKW is counted from the date of issue not the date of the test, I agree, she must have been pretty young when she started.


Oh, BTW, I do have one of the Walmart BB kits. I love it.

 

[TKDmel]

While I oppose the concept of a junior BB, my school makes it very clear to the kids and parents at the belt ceremony, that the kids are not dan holders, but rather poome holders. They are aware that children can not be BB, but are the equivilant of a BB.

 

[Fluffy]

Yea Dave, this is a great forum. I don't spend as much time as I wish I could here. Did you go to Mr. Huges/GM Pierce's seminar this weekend?

 

[stoneheart]

I believe 5 year old dans are a disgrace to the martial arts. I don't even tell my neighbors in my subdivision that I study myself. I know I'll get some story about how Junior is a third degree black belt and he got there in just 3 short years!

 

[IcemanSK]

My whole thing about a 5 year old black belt is, "how can that mean anything to the kid?" He/she has "peaked" at 5. Thelikelyhood of there being a "been there, done that" attitude is gonna be huge with that child.

I have an 8 year old BB that I took in from another school (as a lot of you know). While his respect for me is what I'd expect from a kid who's spent 3 years in a dojang, his ability is sorely lacking. His technique was "good enough" at the old school because mom's check cleared. I have my doubts as to whether he will stick around long enough to learn the Art. I think my standards will be too much for him. In his mind, he's "got it" already.

 

[zDom]

Five year old blackbelt — even a poom — is highly suspect in my book.

Lemme see them do all their forms, then I might believe it.

I'd be surprised if a five-year-old could even do Koryo, much less ALL the the taegueks.

Even if their organization lets them rush through all the belts in two years, that means they were able to do their first form at AGE THREE?

Suuuuuuure.

 

[DArnold]

Personally, I started in the ATA 21 years ago (nearly 22 now).

"I hear "ATA" schools have some kind of annual dues for ones to keep their Black Belt rating (whether you continue to practice or not) and some schools a person can become blackbelt in 1-1/2 years."

It took me nearly 3 years to get my 1st degree, practicing 2-3 hours per night, 4-5 days per week. Granted, they are licensed schools (meaning you're not bound to completely rigid rule on some things).

With every organization, you'll find good and bad, I'm sure there are those out there with open hands, but I'm sure there are those in other organizations as well. I've seen all forms of TKD Karate for Kids out there though, although I haven't noticed ITF or WTF, I've seen probably 10 different versions of the same cookie.

As far as paying to keep the black belt rank... Does any organization remove rank for inactivity? There is an annual due to retain membership, but it's like under $15 (and basically covers the cost of the magazine).

The rank is a measure of the worth of the organazation.

As the old addage goes, "There are those that wear a black belt and there are those that are a black belt"

You touched on one funny thing though. As the ITF has fallen apart and the seniors expel each other and revoke each others rank I have often wondered...
When my rank was revoked, how did they suck the knowledge out of my head?
LOL :ultracool

 

[FieldDiscipline]

As the old addage goes, "There are those that wear a black belt and there are those that are a black belt"

Very very true.

When my rank was revoked, how did they suck the knowledge out of my head?

Very, very funny

 

[TKDmel]

My whole thing about a 5 year old black belt is, "how can that mean anything to the kid?" He/she has "peaked" at 5. Thelikelyhood of there being a "been there, done that" attitude is gonna be huge with that child..

Case in point....2 boys at my school just recieved their BB last week. This week they quit. Children should not be black belts period. I feel and will always feel that programs should be targeting the adult students who, for whatever their personal reasons for taking MA's, will probably remain for years. Children will always be a big part of MA's so targeting them is redundant. Get the parents "hooked" on the benefits of MA's and the rest will sort itself out.

 

[mango.man]

I have seen people quit all the time, at all sorts of ages. People sometimes set goals in life and when they achieve their goal they move on to the next 1. Over the years that we were at our previous dojang, I probably saw 150 or so people test for and or get their BB. I can count on 2 hands and 1 foot the number of those BBs that are still active at the dojang.

 

[Kacey]

Case in point....2 boys at my school just recieved their BB last week. This week they quit. Children should not be black belts period. I feel and will always feel that programs should be targeting the adult students who, for whatever their personal reasons for taking MA's, will probably remain for years. Children will always be a big part of MA's so targeting them is redundant. Get the parents "hooked" on the benefits of MA's and the rest will sort itself out.

I agree with Mango Man on this. Simply because people - of any age - quit after receiving a BB does not mean people in that group should not be allowed to attain that rank. What if the 2 people who tested had been adults? Would that mean that adults should never have been allowed to attain BB because they might quit right after?

I tested for I Dan in a mass, state-wide testing that had 4 test boards with at least 5 senior BBs on each board, with groups of 20-25 at each board - between 80 and 100 students. Of those who tested with me, I know of about a dozen who stayed and trained enough to reach II Dan. 17 years after testing for BB, I don't know of anyone else still active who tested for BB when I did, along with quite a few who reached BB after me and then quit - and yes, they were all adults, and yes, a significant number dropped out, if not immediately, then certianly within 6 months. Should all of those people have not been allowed to test to BB because they were going to drop out?

For too many people, attaining BB is an ending, not the beginning it should be - but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to attain the rank, simply because they want to stop there.

 

[IcemanSK]

I agree with Mango Man on this. Simply because people - of any age - quit after receiving a BB does not mean people in that group should not be allowed to attain that rank. What if the 2 people who tested had been adults? Would that mean that adults should never have been allowed to attain BB because they might quit right after?

I tested for I Dan in a mass, state-wide testing that had 4 test boards with at least 5 senior BBs on each board, with groups of 20-25 at each board - between 80 and 100 students. Of those who tested with me, I know of about a dozen who stayed and trained enough to reach II Dan. 17 years after testing for BB, I don't know of anyone else still active who tested for BB when I did, along with quite a few who reached BB after me and then quit - and yes, they were all adults, and yes, a significant number dropped out, if not immediately, then certianly within 6 months. Should all of those people have not been allowed to test to BB because they were going to drop out?

For too many people, attaining BB is an ending, not the beginning it should be - but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to attain the rank, simply because they want to stop there.

To add to what Kacey said so well, part of retention is how BB is addressed at the school. In my first school, my instructor never addressed "beyond BB" for us students. He was a 6th Dan, but we only 1st Dans at the school. I never heard of or saw what one does "after BB."

In the school that I run, I "pump up" the BB a lot. But I also talk a lot about "beyond BB" in terms of more learning, teaching & lots of the other fun parts of MA. Will folks still leave? Yup. But maybe it will catch on with some that BB isn't the "end all."

 

[DArnold]

Rule 1 - Students Quite

Rule 2 - Instructors can not change Rule 1

Rule 3 - If you are a teacher then you teach. If you have 1 student or 100. The only prerequesit is that the student wants to learn. (Not age, sex, uniform, money... I have never turned down a student for money's sake)

Rule 4 - You can only help students for the time that they show up

Rule 5 - The number 1 killer of instructors is Rule 1

Rule 6 - If you produce 1 student who achieves your love for the art and will spend thier life passing on the art then you have had a successful career

Rule 7 - You don't teach for your students, you teach for yourself. (If you don't belive this then tell me how many students are still around that started with you when you first started teaching???)

Rule 8 - Every time you feel like quiting teaching, the next class, everyone will show up

I have more but it's late...

 

[wayofhandandfoot]

My instructor is from korea and every practioner that studies and takes the BB test does not wear the actual black belt unless or until they are atleast 18. That makes more sense to me. Otherswise it sounds like a money maker. A five year old hasn't spent enough time on earth to understand the art.

 

[mango.man]

I see Jr Black Belts from Korea at all sorts of competitions. How can this be if they are not supposed to don a BB until age 18?

 

[terryl965]

I see Jr Black Belts from Korea at all sorts of competitions. How can this be if they are not supposed to don a BB until age 18?

Mango man seeing BB at tournament does not mean they are Dan rank they are consider Poom rank until the age of 15 and then they can send in proper paperwork and transfer the poom rank for a dan rank. That is just the way of the Kukkiwon.

 

[mango.man]

I understand that Master Stoker. By "don" I meant wear, not dan as in rank. My comment was addressing wayofhandandfoot's comment that in Korea people are not allowed to don / wear a black belt until they are 18 and I was just commenting that I have seen dozens if not hundreds of BBs from Korea that were under 18.