Looking for opinions on my testing.

[shauntkd]

I started TKD back in 1984 at the age of 4. I made it all the way to my Black belt test prep level which in my system is red belt double black stripe, and was that level for three years before I had to stop training for personal reasons. I did however train bymyself at home over the last 15 years, even though I had forgotten all my forms. I did however train with a master in 1998 for six months but had to stop because he had to close his school because the building was sold. I started back a little over six months ago at a new school owned by a former classmate of mine and relearned all my forms in record time. Both he and I and many other students at the school believe I am ready for my BB test. The masters however have saw fit to bar me from testing this year with the only reason being that I haven't been at the school long enough. They do not dispute that my technique and knowledge is far superior to most of the candidates for black belt, and that other than the fact of time I would be ready to test. Meanwhile another student who was origanally trained by one of the masters who's situation is almost identical to mine they are allowing him to test. I am just wondering if anyone besides me thinks what they are doing is wrong.

 

[exile]

I started TKD back in 1984 at the age of 4. I made it all the way to my Black belt test prep level which in my system is red belt double black stripe, and was that level for three years before I had to stop training for personal reasons. I did however train bymyself at home over the last 15 years, even though I had forgotten all my forms. I did however train with a master in 1998 for six months but had to stop because he had to close his school because the building was sold. I started back a little over six months ago at a new school owned by a former classmate of mine and relearned all my forms in record time. Both he and I and many other students at the school believe I am ready for my BB test. The masters however have saw fit to bar me from testing this year with the only reason being that I haven't been at the school long enough. They do not dispute that my technique and knowledge is far superior to most of the candidates for black belt, and that other than the fact of time I would be ready to test. Meanwhile another student who was origanally trained by one of the masters who's situation is almost identical to mine they are allowing him to test. I am just wondering if anyone besides me thinks what they are doing is wrong.

Shaun, my instinct here is that no, what they're doing isn't wrong. A BB doesn't signify only technique and knowledge; it also signifies a kind of confidence in you that the instructors have, that they're willing to vouch for you---to put their credibility on the line by awarding you a dan ranking with not just your name on it but, metaphorically, theirs as well. They want to get a better idea of who you are, to see how you react to pressures and challenges, and maybe how you deal with more junior belts. This is not at all uncommon or out of line. The fact that they've acknowledged your skills and abilities as you report is evidence that no one is `out to get you'---they're just telling you that they want to be as certain about these other aspects of you as they are about the more visible, technical aspects. The other student you allude to is, by the very fact that he's trained with them already, someone they know in a way that they don't know you. So it's not an identical situation...

My advice is, be patient and trust their judgment and objectivity. That may well be something they're probing as well, come to think of it... your willingness to accept their judgment about when you're ready to test. If you accept their decision and continue to train, it won't be long before you're testing for that belt, I'm positive of that.

 

[shauntkd]

No you miss understand me, they told me my not testing has nothing to do with my knowledge and technique that I am ready and fully prepared to test. They're opinion is that after only six months that it is impossible for anyone to be ready to test after being out of TKD for more than acouple of years, but the other guy was out for 5 years and returned just a few weeks before me. Plus the owner of my school and every other black belt at my school along with almost all of my juniors feel that I am ready. when a student has a question they usually come to me for answers rather than the masters. That includes my senior belts. The fact is that two masters made their decision the day i started back that no matter how hard I tried or how much I prepared they were not going to let me test.

 

[Flying Crane]

I understand your frustration. Without actually being there, and without hearing the other two sides of the story (there are usually three sides to the story: yours, his, and the truth

) it is really hard to judge what to think.

It seems to me that you have proven yourself by continuing to practice on your own for 15 years, after being without a teacher. That is what the arts should really be about: learning the material and making it your own, it belongs to you. By motivating yourself to train alone for so long, you have certainly proven that. So many people just stop training if they don't belong to a school. To that, I say that they haven't really learned anything, except how to mimick someone else.

On top of that, this school is run by a former classmate of yours. He should perhaps know you a bit deeper and be willing to stand up for you if he truly believes you are ready.

That being said, it sounds like he is part of an organization and has to play by their rules, for better or for worse. This may just be politics at play, and there may be nothing you or he can do about it.

Ask yourself something else: have you done anything in your past that might make them question your sincerity or character as a person? Could there be something like that at play, that makes them reluctanct to let you test, like a criminal record, or something? Just a thought, trying to cover all bases, certainly not an accusation from me!

At any rate, whatever the reasons, sounds like you might just have to suck it up. If it is pure politics, that is too bad, and one reason why I don't like big organizations. I tend to believe that someone who has been given authority as an instructor, as your instructor has, should be granted the power to make his own decisions about ranking. If he can't be trusted to make intelligent decisions about this kind of thing, then why has he been granted instructor ranking? Just my perspective on the whole ranking thing.

Keep training, it sounds like you are more than proving your worth, rank be damned. Keep being a good example for the other students, and keep a good attitude regardless of how this issue is resolved. Sounds like the other students respect you, and that is something earned and has nothing to do with the color of your belt. That is far more important. Don't let this issue poison your desire to train.

 

[Kacey]

Shauntkd, I belong to an association that requires new members who want to test for black belt - of any rank or ability level - to belong to the association and actively work out with an instructor in our association for at least one year before they can test. There are a couple of reasons for this. One, we have had some experience with people who want to join us solely to test, and then they vanish. I am not saying that this is you - indeed, it sounds like it's not - but it is part of the reason for the policy. Two, part of being a black belt is demonstrating your commitment to the art - which requires that you be present for a certain length of time. It sounds to me like this is at least part of the reason why you are being deferred from testing at this time - not because you are not ready, but because bending the rules for you - life events notwithstanding - would be unfair to all of those who have met the time in rank and time in continuous training requirements.

In addition, testing is at the discretion of the instructor - not the student. You may well be physically ready, but the physical piece is really the smaller part, IMHO. The time requirement is to allow you to demonstrate your commitment, and to allow the instructor(s) who train you to assess your mental readiness for testing - and if you let your conviction that you are physically ready lead you to insist upon testing, that is demonstrating that you are not in the right place mentally. When you have met the organization's requirements in all areas, then you will be ready to test. Insisting that the rules be change for you demonstrates, at least to me, that you are not in the right place mentally to test at this time.

 

[shauntkd]

Well a new development, My origanal master who is now a grand master oversees and has final decision on all candidates who test. A few weeks ago my dad explained the situation to him and asked for his opinion. A week went buy after he said he would talk to my instructor and he did not, so the master called and talked to him. I was told that the grand master wanted me to wait and would not let me test. Well my dad just got home from the testing and the grand master had expected me to be there and test. It turns out that the master who said he said I couldn't test lied so I wouldn't show up at testing.

 

[exile]

Well a new development, My origanal master who is now a grand master oversees and has final decision on all candidates who test. A few weeks ago my dad explained the situation to him and asked for his opinion. A week went buy after he said he would talk to my instructor and he did not, so the master called and talked to him. I was told that the grand master wanted me to wait and would not let me test. Well my dad just got home from the testing and the grand master had expected me to be there and test. It turns out that the master who said he said I couldn't test lied so I wouldn't show up at testing.

Whoa.... some heavy wickedness going on here, Shaun. Have you touched base with your GM and explained the situation to him (or did your father)?

Please keep us posted on the situation. I take back what I said earlier... it sounds like someone might well be out to get you... I'd contact your GM absolutely ASAP and get it straightened out. If the instructor who told you that really was lying... and it's hard to imagine a different scenario... things could get pretty bleak for him pretty quickly...

 

[searcher]

Sounds like it is time for a school change.

 

[exile]

Sounds like it is time for a school change.

Not necessarily... maybe time for a change in middle management, though, and if Shaun's account jibes with what the GM thinks about what happened, that could happen pretty soon.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

Well a new development, My origanal master who is now a grand master oversees and has final decision on all candidates who test. A few weeks ago my dad explained the situation to him and asked for his opinion. A week went buy after he said he would talk to my instructor and he did not, so the master called and talked to him. I was told that the grand master wanted me to wait and would not let me test. Well my dad just got home from the testing and the grand master had expected me to be there and test. It turns out that the master who said he said I couldn't test lied so I wouldn't show up at testing.

You need to look at things from a different viewpoint. It is not up to you or your classmates to decide that you are ready for bb, it is up to the person who signs the certificates, whoever that may be.

For you to get frustrated and get your daddy to call the teacher sounds like there is a soap opera going on all sides of the table. You are 26 years old (if I read things right). Don't get your father to call and complain--do it yourself. That is the age of a man, not of a boy who lets daddy handle things if things aren't going your way. If you don't like it, move to another school. Plus, to walk in after a long absense and expect a bb in just six months sounds like you are in a huge rush. Slow down. Why are you rushing, arguing, calling overseas grandmasters, and running around complaining? Stop and smell the roses. Once you get that black belt on, that should be it for a while.

Like someone just said: there are 3 sides to a story. I am sure that is what is going on here, but you need to slow down and let things work out properly.

AoG

 

[Touch Of Death]

I started TKD back in 1984 at the age of 4. I made it all the way to my Black belt test prep level which in my system is red belt double black stripe, and was that level for three years before I had to stop training for personal reasons. I did however train bymyself at home over the last 15 years, even though I had forgotten all my forms. I did however train with a master in 1998 for six months but had to stop because he had to close his school because the building was sold. I started back a little over six months ago at a new school owned by a former classmate of mine and relearned all my forms in record time. Both he and I and many other students at the school believe I am ready for my BB test. The masters however have saw fit to bar me from testing this year with the only reason being that I haven't been at the school long enough. They do not dispute that my technique and knowledge is far superior to most of the candidates for black belt, and that other than the fact of time I would be ready to test. Meanwhile another student who was origanally trained by one of the masters who's situation is almost identical to mine they are allowing him to test. I am just wondering if anyone besides me thinks what they are doing is wrong.

Would you hang a Black Belt on someone you barely knew?
Sean

 

[Dave Leverich]

If she was really cute...





I'm kidding! Heh, no.

I think much of black belt status is mental, patience is a very key factor.

 

[TKDmel]

Well...I guess its time I clear some things up. I don't know if everyone remembers a post not too long ago that was titled, "Need some feedback". I was having some concerns about being able to test since a couple masters locally opposed it. I did not post at that time that my son was also taking TKD at the same school. I did not include him in the discussion as firstly, I will not speak for someone else and secondly the masters were only giving me a hassle about testing. I have come to terms with the politics, or whatever else is going on and will test with my original master in May. My and my sons instructor, a 3rd degree, believes that my son is ready to test but was told by the other 3 local masters that he couldn't test because the GM sais he couldn't. Tonight while I was attending the BB test to help hold boards and such, the GM came up to me and asked where my son was for testing. He had no idea the other masters had deferred my son's testing. Clearly someone has an agenda that is beneath the level of a true BB.

 

[exile]

Well...I guess its time I clear some things up. I don't know if everyone remembers a post not too long ago that was titled, "Need some feedback". I was having some concerns about being able to test since a couple masters locally opposed it. I did not post at that time that my son was also taking TKD at the same school. I did not include him in the discussion as firstly, I will not speak for someone else and secondly the masters were only giving me a hassle about testing. I have come to terms with the politics, or whatever else is going on and will test with my original master in May. My and my sons instructor, a 3rd degree, believes that my son is ready to test but was told by the other 3 local masters that he couldn't test because the GM sais he couldn't. Tonight while I was attending the BB test to help hold boards and such, the GM came up to me and asked where my son was for testing. He had no idea the other masters had deferred my son's testing. Clearly someone has an agenda that is beneath the level of a true BB.

What was his reaction when you informed him that the others had told you he was opposed to your son testing?

 

[TKDmel]

You need to look at things from a different viewpoint. It is not up to you or your classmates to decide that you are ready for bb, it is up to the person who signs the certificates, whoever that may be.

Apparently, as of tonight the GM was going to sign the certificate if my son hadn't been given misinformation.

For you to get frustrated and get your daddy to call the teacher sounds like there is a soap opera going on all sides of the table. You are 26 years old (if I read things right). Don't get your father to call and complain--do it yourself.
AoG

AoG, I talked to the GM unbeknownst to my son.

 

[TKDmel]

What was his reaction when you informed him that the others had told you he was opposed to your son testing?

exile, I was present when my son was told he couldn't test because the GM said he couldn't. He believed it when they said the GM said it, and was willing to abide by his descision. My son will still continue to train just as I have, and will knock m' dead come May. I am concerned though, as is he, that there is "something rotten in Denmark". The GM's reaction was one of bewilderment. He was at a loss for words, as was I. I did not persue the matter any further as it was the middle of the BB test and it was not an appropriate venue for hashing things out.

 

[exile]

exile, I was present when my son was told he couldn't test because the GM said he couldn't. He believed it when they said the GM said it, and was willing to abide by his descision. My son will still continue to train just as I have, and will knock m' dead come May. I am concerned though, as is he, that there is "something rotten in Denmark". The GM's reaction was one of bewilderment. He was at a loss for words, as was I. I did not persue the matter any further as it was the middle of the BB test and it was not an appropriate venue for hashing things out.

It surely cannot please him very much that his assistants lied to him. In his position, I'd tear a strip off one of their sides and down the other...

Sometimes I just can't figure out what it is with some people... why this kind of petty duplicity? What so important is at stake, for heaven's sake??

 

[wade]

I gotta agree with exile on this one, I have fired BB's and instructors for less than this. If you are one of my instructors you had better not lie nor hide things from me cause I will come out in the end.

I will also make it right to the student for what happened. Don't get me wrong, they still have to pass the test, it's just that I will give them another shot at it.

 

[exile]

I gotta agree with exile on this one, I have fired BB's and instructors for less than this. If you are one of my instructors you had better not lie nor hide things from me cause I will come out in the end.

That sounds like the right way to do things, Wade.... the whole MA business and training system is based on trust. If you can't trust the people who you've given respnsiblity to for your students, you're dead!

I will also make it right to the student for what happened. Don't get me wrong, they still have to pass the test, it's just that I will give them another shot at it.

That sounds fair all around.

You have to wonder what people are thinking that leads them to....scheme in the way that some of the people at TKDM's and Shaun's dojangs seem to have done. What could be that important?

 

[matt.m]

Wow, I am just amazed that this sort of thing has happened. I am with Exile, I would become the Sgt. of Marines again and just dress my underling down with utmost sincerity.