Pushing As a Technique In Martial Arts

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by Zenjael, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    It occurred to me the other day that pushes (where you push someone) are conspicuously absent from most martial arts (I can't think of any which utilize or specialize in it) and I am curious if anyone can think of any which do utilize a pushing technique. I ask because I was speaking with a fellow bagua practioner I know in the area, and he found it curious that the style I use utilizes pushes. And I don't mean in the kind where one pushes one over, but ones which generate the force to effectively force the person to stumble backward quite a few feet, or slam into the ground.

    Defined techniques in the sense that there are defined throwing techniques in judo and jiujitsu, and defined joint-lock techniques in Hapkido.

    I am curious also why pushing hasn't been more utilized in martial arts. I'm not calling for a revolution in martial arts or anything to include it, lol, but I just find it odd that people have focused far more one grabbing and bringing a person in and down, rather than the opposite and out.

    Please, your thoughts. I may be grossly mistaken and many martial arts exist which utilize it. But I also think all martial arts utilize some kind of push, but how TKD is largely specializing in kicking techniques, I am unaware of any arts which are the same, but for pushing.

    If anyone has any insight, I would be grateful.

    Thank you for your time.
     
  2. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    "A person's unbalance is the same as a weight." Whatever you do to achieve this is good.

    Did they fail to teach you this?

    Isshin-Ryu also contains push strikes and kicks. Guess they didn't teach you that when you were learning Isshin-Ryu either. How strange.
     
  3. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    We utilize it. Quite a bit, actually. Its by all means a secondary method, but its there, and has its uses.
    Im not aware of any that specialize in it, and really, I dont see why You would need an entire MA for pushing. Thats overkill. As an aspect of a pre-existing one? Thats sound.

    I like to think of it more as an alternate use of a Palm Strike though, as I prefer to do Palms without bending the fingers in.
     
  4. K-man

    K-man Grandmaster

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    As does Goju.
     
  5. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    As does Wado. We use it in MMA as well.
     
  6. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    How has all this escaped the Master's notice?
     
  7. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    We push all over the place in the different CMA's I practice. Up, down, left, right, front, back... they're everywhere!!!

    Granted, pounding is preferred, but a good push is always welcomed when available.
     
  8. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    In TSD we have some nice shoulder shoves as well, they were also in Wado, I'd imagine most martial artists know them.
     
  9. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Pushes with the body are all over the place in CMAs. You see it as a commonly demonstrated application in tai chi, baji, baqua, etc. It's a little strange that the OP's baqua friend isn't somewhat familiar with the idea.
     
  10. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Isn't it though?

    And I mean the idea of using a push period is great... and basic. Just like an introductory ***** slap across the mouth to get the ball rolling. Basic... elementary... effective.

    I have yet to find a CMA that doesn't use bumps, nudges, pushes, shoves, checks, etc... with the body & without, in it's repertoire of goodies/ways to hit.
     
  11. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    According to the O/P, he's the last remaining student of a particular style, leaving him the reigning grandmaster of it. Perhaps it will come to him in a dream, or the next time he has tea with the Dalai Lama.
     
  12. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    There are some techs in our Arnis curriculum that include pushes. The push is done as a whole body push with the forearm.
     
  13. Never_A_Reflection

    Never_A_Reflection Blue Belt

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    Pushes are also in Shorin-Ryu and Shuri-Ryu. My Shorin-Ryu sensei also thoroughly enjoys White Crane techniques and teaches them periodically, and they include pushes as well. I am confused as to why OP's fellow bagua practitioner was confused.
     
  14. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    OK.... just about ALL Baguazhang styles utilize pushing, all Taijiquan styles I know of do as well (see An, Ji and Kao) and so does Xingyiquan and even my short lived training in Changquan tells me Changquan uses pushes too. And my Jujutsu from almost 40 years ago did and I even saw some in my pre-Olympic TKD...so yes you are grossly mistaken
     
  15. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    Hi ZenJael
    what school of Baguazhang does your friend practice?

    Being that Bagua uses open palm mostly Tui Zhang or pushing palm exist. You also have Ta Zhang which is a stamp type of hitting similar to pushing.
    Baguazhang doesn't just use palms it uses the whole body to push. In Baguazhang pushing can be done with the shoulders, forearm, and back. There really is no hard set rule that I know of that says you can not use it to push with. Alot of time pushing is used to uproot someone, you can use it as a strike guess it depends on the circumstance of the encounter.

    Here is some Yin Baguazhang using Lion application which is what your Shi Shi Baguazhang should look like:
     
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  16. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Try doing judo or jujutsu without knowing how to use a push....
    U
     
  17. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Well... :confused: OK.... :uhoh:.... but it won't work :uhyeah:
     
  18. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    Well if the push isn't working you could always try a pull :uhyeah:
     
  19. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    So it appears that just about every form of martial arts offers various 'push' techniques?

    How odd that makes the initial post seem. To me, anyway...
     
  20. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ........ Yyyyyyyyyoooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!
     

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