Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by Zenjael, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    Yes, because my math was bad, apologies. The point is one the same, because ultimately it will be up to you how long it will take to memorize the patterns and techniques, how to do them, and where. In the end, it is in your hands if it takes 3 months, or 4 years. Master Khan was the former, and spent over a decade befoire testing for 2nd dan. It's in the eye of the beholder and it was an inadequately done example.
     
  2. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

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    Even if you could cram it into 3 months without sleep or food (which, for the record, is impossible), I'd say that compared to someone who has put in a similar intensity (but with sleep and food) of training for multiple years, your standard is going to be weighed, measured, and found wanting. Which is what has happened, and why you've been getting the responses that you have. You've made some pretty wild claims about what can be done in such short time periods, but your video, your attitude and your knowledge level do nothing to back up those claims. They only serve to show how incorrect you are in the views you hold about what can be achieved in short timescales.

    It doesn't make you a bad person, so don't listen to some of the personal insults. Do listen to the facts and feedback though, please. Congratulations on your first succinct post, by the way ;)
     
  3. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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  4. Aiki Lee

    Aiki Lee Master of Arts

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    Zenjael,

    I have no idea what you are talking about in your response to my statement. Other than your comment about you doing drills "mindlessly" nothing was relevent. I just want to clairfy that all training should be mindful and with purpose not just mimicry of what you see an instructor doing.
     
  5. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Hmm...this reads to me, like you're going to start your own art, by mixing a little of this, a little of that, from each of the arts that you've basically spent little to no time in, before you jumped on to something else?
     
  6. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    :lfao:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  7. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    As I said, Mike....

    "So, to translate:

    "I have no idea about the structure, history, development, or principles of martial arts, but am happy to tell everyone that I know better. Oh, and I live in a fantasy world.""
     
  8. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    As I've said endless times, and will continue to say...there is more to is than memorization. If thats all you're doing, then you'll never get anywhere, and your skills will continue to suck. People can memorize a million things, but....if they can't: teach the material, understand the material, make the material work, make it work under pressure, and be able to adapt under pressure, then you can as I said, know a million things, and those million things will always suck.

    Interesting too, how you mention this Khan guy, taking a decade to go up 1 degree, yet you're repeatedly said that it shouldn't take long.
     
  9. zDom

    zDom Senior Master

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    There are a very many things about martial arts that can only be learned through training: hours of sweating and not stopping to discuss a thing.

    Not standing around and talking about martial art styles, theories, concepts and "what ifs" and "I would justs", but just getting out on the floor and doing 1,000 kicks; putting on the mitts and banging; sweating it out on the floor day in and day out over a period of years.

    The kid needs to make a decision: does he want to be a guy who can wow people with his ability to talk martial arts, or does he want to really learn to make martial arts a sweaty part of his life and, as a reward, be able to DO martial arts? Those who pick the former will never matter much to those who pick the latter. The latter will never be able to convince the former of anything, either.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  10. Kenlee25

    Kenlee25 Green Belt

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    You have a point, but there is always a happy medium. There is something to be said about pure immersion, both training the mind and the body, experimenting on the floor as well as in your head. Martial arts are not just about the body, it's something that -- as i am beginning to see moreso each day -- one can stick with for the rest of their lives.

    I believe that someone who doesn't train hard is fundamentally missing out on half the art, and someone who doesn't think hard about it -- conceptualize, discuss, theorize, enjoy conversation, go over scenarios, shadowbox, etc etc -- is also missing something very important.

    two halves of the whole really. In my opinion at least.
     
  11. WC_lun

    WC_lun Senior Master

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    You have a point. The problem is some people do niether. They fantasize about martial arts, using thier imigination to make themselves believe they a something they are not. None of the hard work of either mental or physical training is performed. I'm willing to bet that all of us who have trained for any length of time has heard, "If you don't do the work, there will be no benefit!" or some variation in thier school.

    I think that is what sticks in the craw of many people. Most people on this board who claim the title of martial artist have worked very hard in thier respective disciplines. Thier knowledge is hard earned, regardless if you agree with thier partcular brand of training or not. Then some young man comes to the boards and tells us he is knowledgable is this or that art, when by the videos and comments he has submitted, he is not. It is obvious he has not put in the time or work into everything he claims he has, yet he is very willing to preach to and chastise others.

    Don't get me wrong, I feel for this young man. It is obvious he desires to be a skilled martial artist. He also has an intense interest in the martial arts. In of themselves, those are not bad things at all. However, the route he is pursuing will lead to failure as a martial artist, and this makes me sad for him. Ou course, then he claims knowledge in arts I actually have knowledge in and then I just switch to being annoyed :)
     
  12. K-man

    K-man Grandmaster

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    Can I just say, "ditto". ':cheers:
     
  13. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Yep, yep. What he said....:lol:
     
  14. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    For a third!!!!
     
  15. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    And don't get me started on what's getting me annoyed....

    In other words, fourthed.... (hmm, I think we just invented a new word there... ironic, really...)
     
  16. zDom

    zDom Senior Master

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    Grandmaster Park held that martial arts develops the three domains of learning:

    psychomotor: physical movement, coordination, the use of the motor-skill areas

    affective: "social" areas of our mind — feelings, values, appreciation, enthusiasms, motivations and attitudes

    cognitive: the mental aspects — content knowledge, intellectual skills — ranges from recalling facts to evaluation

    Think of each domain as a circle, the three interlocked like this:


    http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Venn_diagram.gif


    The bottom two are psychomotor and affective; the top is cognitive.

    In martial arts (and other similar things such as sports), Park wrote, we start with activities that are almost all psychomotor and affective.

    As a beginner, learning is almost all related to activity related to the psychomotor and affective domains.

    As you get into the black belt, instructor, or coaching levels, it begins to include the cognitive domain more and more.

    Eventually you get to a level where almost all learning is cognitive.

    But you can't just jump to the cognitive phase of learning without the foundation of lessons learned in the psychomotor and affective domains.


    The problem as I see it is this kid is VERY gifted in the cognitive domain. I think we can all see that. So he naturally just wants to jump to that level.

    But I think it is evident that he hasn't yet built his base in the psychomotor and affective domains: hence, all the advice for him to:

    Get ON the martial art floor, stop talking, start listening and DOING.

    He has the potential to be a brilliant martial artist — but he won't get there from a keyboard. Boy needs time on the mat.

    Eventually, decades later maybe, there are all sorts of things that can be learned and explored at the cognitive level. And if he builds that base, he is going to understand that while more experienced martial artists may not have his natural aptitude at the cognitive level, they have the base one needs to learn in that domain because they have invested long hours over many years, built the necessary foundation in the psychomotor and affective domains.

    I have no doubt he has THOUGHT about martial arts ever since he was old enough to take a liking to them.

    But I can see he has very little time in on the psychomotor domain. There are lessons there he needs to learn THERE that will open new doors in his mind.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012

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