Mixed Martial Arts Sparring

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by Zenjael, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    Despite the title, while there is MMA utilized in the video, there are also different kinds of mixed martial arts, rather than the normative sole TKD/Muai-Thai/Judo combination.

    The person in the black is my good training partner, and friend, Alec Emery. I've had the honor of attending several martial art schools with him, and he is a very good fighter. He holds a 3rd Dan in Chung Do Kwan TKD, and I am equally ranked in WTF Tae Kwon Do, Moo Duk Kwan.

    To give a size reference I'm about 5'4", 5'5", and am wearing the black shirt, and gray sweater in beginning.

    I hope you guys enjoy the video, find valuable insights for possible improvement and critique, and can find things to use yourself from this video.

    The Martial Art Styles, altogether used in this video (elements from each style we have respectively learned) are; Chung Do Kwan, Jidokwan, Moo Duk Kwan, World Trade Federation Tae Kwon Do, International Tae Kwon Do Federation, Shotokan, Isshin-Ryu, Okinawan Karate, Muai-Thai, Aikido, Hapkido, Jiujitsu, Krav Maga, Acujutsu, Shishi Baguazhang, Yin-Style Baguazhang, Wing-Chun, and American Kenpo.

    I am hoping the diversity will allow the video to appeal to many, especially as an example of the benefits of cross-style training.

    Again, I hope you all enjoy, and sorry for the Dup-step. I'm clearly pandering to a wider audience there.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  2. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Do you want honest feedback? Warning: it won't necessarily be gentle.
     
  3. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Seconded. I wont comment unless You get to comment, because it would probably be about as gentle as Yours.
     
  4. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

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    There was no Wing Chun in that mate.
    Too much flicky , flowery , stylistic stuff in that for Wing Chun.

    Stop staying out at range flicking your leg around and move in and hit him.
    You keep that caper up and someones just going to come in and run you over.

    Too much wasted movement , soon as you engage move into punching range and keep the pressure up , don't hang back on one leg playing footsies.

    It might sound harsh , but that's my opinion of it.
     
  5. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Oh dear. 3rd Dan, you say.

    My only comment on your sparring for you personally is that if you try to pull your head back like that, it means you're afraid to get hit in the head, and generally it also means you have never been hit in the head. You're going to be, trust me. Get your head in the well. Protect it, yes, but get it in the well. Inclining that melon backwards is asking someone to stuff your kick and drop you like a bad habit.

    On the bright side, you're both fast, great balance, and flexible. In 20 years, you'll be really good, and you clearly have enthusiasm; hope you stick with it and learn your art. You're good, you're not great. You are most definitely not a master.

    Speaking of your art, I hope you pick one and settle down. You are (in my humble opinion) a master of nothing; you have bits and pieces of various arts, you've learned to do them pretty well, but you lack focus and mental discipline, not to mention maturity.

    I say this humbly, as a martial arts beginner myself; but I have one advantage you do not. I am old, and I have had my *** kicked by life, as you will eventually. I have learned the value of choosing a path and seeing it through. I will never be as fast, as flexible, or have the balance you have. Take advantage of what you have now, so that you still have it later, when you learn what I have and you do not; power and focus.

    It's good that you love yourself. Try not to do it quite so much in public; a 20-something dispensing expert advice can be a bit annoying. Try to develop some humility. This is a great online community full of people who know a lot more about martial arts than I do; and more than you as well. You probably have some great insights and opinions to offer, and they're welcome. Hubris gets its butt kicked here; people have been very gentle with you up to now. I hope you stay, but let's get over the how great you are bit.
     
  6. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Wow... I'm going to agree with what's already been said... that's the nicest thing to do.
     
  7. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    A strike from Alec, at all, anywhere, especially the head is enough to knock a person down for quite awhile. Normally I wouldn't have to tilt so far back in a quick, but his height advantage combined with skill level in sparring forces one to take extra precautions to avoid that blow.
    We will always find those, though, with greater ability, insight, and experience than we ourselves possess.
     
  8. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

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    With certain individuals where one must avoid any contact from them on one's body at all costs. I wouldnt say this is representative of combat, but moreso well synced continuous sparring.

    In many of the hand exchanges you'll notice vertically oriented punches and strikes. While you may have to look closely when it comes to our handwork, there is some wing-chun which was inserted. Granted, not much, as their flurry punches can be quite ineffective against someone with a nullatory such as Krav Maga.

    You'll notice also that Judo, and Aikido were mentioned as used, but the only time this occurred was in about two places where we used stances from the style to avoid tripping each other.

    Feel free to be as critical as one would like, and that goes for everyone.
     
  9. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    That is not a good reason to not keep your noggin in the well.

    I'm really trying to be gentle with you. I did a lot of research on your background; it's what I do. I know more about you than you think. I think you're an OK guy with some good natural talents and an ego problem. Ego is fine when you can back it up; you can't. And for what it's worth; there is no karate ryu called "Okinawan," and there was no 'Isshin-ryu' use in the video you posted that I could see; none at all. What you've been doing is attending one McDojo after another, collecting belts, and believing it when they tell you have perfect form. These are growups at this table, young man. You're welcome to join in, and frankly, I hope you do. But you ain't all that and a bag of chips. If you don't choose to believe that, cool, but realize that others who actually know what they are talking about are going to become less gentle about slapping you down if you keep this nonsense up. We've got actual masters on MT who have 30 and 40 years of study in; they've got belts older than you. When you post a video and hope they learn something from it? Yeah, no. You're a young adult now. Time you grew up a bit.
     
  10. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

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    If you are using Baguazhang I'd like to see more entering, sweeps with the leg, angles using Bagua stepping bai bu 摆步 kou bu扣步, I'd like to see throws being used from entering. The kicks you favor a snap kick that twist at the end you seem to do this at least 10 times. I think if you went up against a skilled grappler he would grab your leg or go for a take down.
     
  11. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

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    No there wasn't , and even if there was your upper body is leaning all over the shop so it wouldn't work for you anyway.

    Just because you use a vertical fist does not make it Wing Chun.
     
  12. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    No, you had no real evasive movement at all, except for trying to keep your head back, which stopped you committing properly to anything you threw, instead occasionally trying to over-compensate with wild, skill-less flurries. You showed no defensive ability whatsoever, but a lot of fear. In short, you looked like you wanted to look good, and that was the main thing, with no real display of skill. It could almost have been someone copying movie choreography in a free-form manner, rather than any actual display of anything to do with martial arts.

    The biggest issue with the claims that you have come here with are that they are contradictory (you're 22, and have been training for 20 years - which would have you starting at the age of 2 - or "a bit over 19 years, and I tend to round up" - which would be you starting at age 2 or 3 - to you starting at the age of 4 - which would be 18 years at most - , to this clip saying you have 13 years experience, through to your claim that you train in a form of Bagua but have been asked to teach a form of Karate [with a Korean system name], and so on), largely improbable to the point of unbelievable, and your rather lengthy resume including a form of Bagua that contradicts established Bagua history, of which Bagua practitioners don't recognise what you're describing as Bagua, as well as systems that simply don't exist (there is no such martial system as "Okinawan Karate"... there are Okinawan Karate systems, such as Isshin Ryu, Goju Ryu, and so on, but no such system as "Okinawan Karate"), and some things that are just plainly bizarre... I mean, what on earth is "acujutsu"?!? Add to that your self appraisal of your expertise with a blade, and your frankly downright dangerous ideas on defending against such, will leave your word as being considered less than insightful. The recommendation is to realise that your abilities may really not be what you think they are, and to act accordingly. There are a large number of people here (including myself, for the record) who have been training longer than you've been alive, and believe me when I tell you that your claims don't have the ring of authenticity to us.

    To your clip, you showed little real ability with any of it, a lot of same-leg kicks (not really anything like any Bagua I've seen...), no aspect of 90% of the arts that you claim were in there, and in no way, shape, or form "mixed martial arts". It wasn't even "various martial arts", or "various martial arts techniques", it was just two people moving pretty slowly (gotta disagree with Bill here, you really weren't fast at all except where you were flailing at each other, but I don't count that as fast, as there was nothing behind any of it), out of range, with no defensive skill, no sense of timing, no angling, no footwork, no sense of distance, no sense of targeting, and no sense of power. I really don't believe that Alec hitting you would have done much, nor you hitting him.
     
  13. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well...I'm really slow. Everybody looks fast to me. :)
     
  14. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    As You wish. The kicking with the same leg multiple times like that is absurd and ineffective against anyone who doesnt politely stand there and permit it. Alot of the Roundhouse Kicks are angled downward and end up being leg slaps.

    The Punching is very abstract, and vague - I lack better words for it than that. Its like there are times when volleys are attempted, but theyre held back and limited by some kind of overattention to technique.

    There is a nigh complete lack of aggression. Its like having two Defenders trying to be Defensive, whilst Sparring. It isnt a particularly good syllabus. Alot of the Kicks lack Power, and the Blocking can be a bit too evasive. Now, I know that to a degree, thats the point. But not when it means putting Yourself someplace where a better opponent could easily rush You as a result.

    You spend a bit too much time standing around, and You both seem to be trying to stay away from each other. I get it with You - If You fancy staying away from heavy hitters, so be it. But when He does it, He cant exactly call the same excuse. And if Youre therefore both good, then thats all the more reason to get closer.

    Lastly, most of the strikes are executed Stationary. Which is fine for defense, but see point 3.
     
  15. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    I probably wouldn't be able to add much to whats already been said. However, I'll touch on a few things.

    1) Theres nothing wrong with cross training. I do it myself. However, theres a difference between really devoting quality time to training and being a jack of all trades, master of none. IMHO, I think that you and your friend fall into the latter. You both seem passionate about training, however, its clearly apparent that for the amount of time that you both claim to have trained, the skill IMO, doesnt reflect it.

    2) To be honest, I saw none/very little of the styles you list.

    3) "A strike from Alec, at all, anywhere, especially the head is enough to knock a person down for quite awhile. Normally I wouldn't have to tilt so far back in a quick, but his height advantage combined with skill level in sparring forces one to take extra precautions to avoid that blow."

    LOL. You can't be serious. Judging by the way he was striking, I find that hard to believe. Furthermore, you can easily put on some some protective gear and actually make some contact. We wear protective gear when sparring in Kyokushin, minimal as it may be, and we're hitting much, much harder than what was displayed here.

    4) "With certain individuals where one must avoid any contact from them on one's body at all costs. I wouldnt say this is representative of combat, but moreso well synced continuous sparring.

    In many of the hand exchanges you'll notice vertically oriented punches and strikes. While you may have to look closely when it comes to our handwork, there is some wing-chun which was inserted. Granted, not much, as their flurry punches can be quite ineffective against someone with a nullatory such as Krav Maga.

    You'll notice also that Judo, and Aikido were mentioned as used, but the only time this occurred was in about two places where we used stances from the style to avoid tripping each other.

    Feel free to be as critical as one would like, and that goes for everyone. "

    See #3.
     
  16. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I know Alex has been training in MA for a long time, I can't say how long. But he placed in a Kendo tournament as a junior rank in 2005 or 2006, and he placed in a martial arts tournament that featured sparring in the same timeframe as an advanced underbelt. From the curriculum vitae he has placed on the web in various locations, he has jumped around a lot, training mostly at (what I would consider) McDojos around the Norther Virginia area. I mean no disrespect to TKD practioners, but there are a lot of belt mills wrapped around that concept, so it's not that hard to pick up a 1st Dan in some form of TKD in a fairly short period of time. Alex claims to have earned his first black belt at age 6 or 7 if I recall correctly. Bouncing around from dojo to dojo, I can see how he could repeat rank in various Korean styles and some unaffiliated make-um-up styles.

    I'm not fraud-busting here; I don't think one could say he's a 'fraud' exactly. It's certainly possible he's been training since age 3 (though highly unlikely IMHO). He may actually have all the dan ranks he claims; but I don't think his dan ranks are what most martial artists consider real. He's clearly been at it for awhile, and that's a good thing. I hope his enthusiasm lasts and he continues to develop as a martial artist and a person. He just needs to get over the notion that he's a master and humble himself a bit. I think if he found a real dojo and applied himself, he'd do well.
     
  17. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Nice to see you putting yourself up for viewing.

    Everybody is on Skrillex now. +1 for Rob Zombie though :D
     
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  18. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Personally, wasn't wowed, and lost patience to watch about halfway through with all the silly editing effects.

    I like Chris Parker's description: free form movie choreography. Neither showed any real commitment to an attack, neither showed evasion or counter-attacking. You apparently dislike your face, the way you leave it unprotected. As someone who once was accused of having mastered the face block... I don't recommend it. You held pretty stances for the most part, though.
     
  19. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

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    I won't comment on your technique except to say it looks ok. Probably acceptable shodan level for a majority of schools.

    EDIT: You have excellent balance and your partner's sidekicks look good. Your frontkicks though should point out a little more IMHO.

    What I will comment on, is that isn't mixed martial arts. MMA is not a bunch of styles mashed together, MMA is a sport and a ruleset.
     
  20. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    That's depressing.
     

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