You might disagree but I think this is great news

Tez3

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[/b]

Bold statement "they can't fight"....Assumes allot!!!! and Marginalizes many!!!

Not even close to true!!!!!


then prove they can fight.

And you might want to apologise for mistaking me for another poster.
 

dancingalone

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I think people need to get over this thing about people being jealous of Olympic TKD which most of us don't regard as the same thing as sport TKD.
Sport TKD is entertaining and exciting when staged properly, this is how it should be in the Olympics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7taxMwrraA&feature=related

Zelg fights over here in MMA and has had some good scalps under his belt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5cxP0eZcOA&feature=fvw

I like this myself. I would like to see some rules added to discourage excessive clinches though. This fight was fine, but I could see a match having too much hugging if the fighters are tired or if one is overmatched.
 

Tez3

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I like this myself. I would like to see some rules added to discourage excessive clinches though. This fight was fine, but I could see a match having too much hugging if the fighters are tired or if one is overmatched.


I agree, it's one of the things that does make it more like boxing and some types of kickboxing so should be changed. The rules could limit clinches to a couple of seconds or not have them at all.
I like the combativeness of the fights that's lacking in the Olympic stuff.
 

Cirdan

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TEZ3...You are concerned about how may exclamation points that I use!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again calling "Olympic Style" Sport TKD a joke is classless. Disagree all that you want!!!!!!!!! Make your case fine!!!!!!

I am world class at exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was me, not Tez. Perhaps if you spent a few more seconds reading the actual post instead of typing shift+1 repeatedly you would get it right, eh?

Olympic TKD is a joke because it is not TKD, it is not a martial art and even as a sport it is too boring to deserve a place in the olympics.
If my lineage was closer to TKD I would probably feel sad too.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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The last comment assumes that one must be world class in order to evaluate what they see, and this is not the case. Attempting to marginalize those who disagree with you in this manner does nothing to make your case stronger.

No it does not assumee that you must be world class to make an evaluation. I am not a world class athlete!!! It does assume that anyone who would call my martial art a joke( which absolutely marginalizes sport tkd) is not world class at anything not just a sport.
Nor does this strengthen your case.

I am only marginalizing those who would degrade sport tkd as a joke. If you just disagree fine but have enough class not to call it a joke (or a laughing stock whatever the case may be).
While I do not consider the WTF rule set a joke, you might want to look at why some consider it as such.

Unfortunately, some of those people have very compelling arguements that are supported by demonstrable facts, not just passion for what they like.

And a good number of those individuals were involved in taekwondo long before it was an olympic event.

I do not agree with the assessment that WTF sport taekwondo is a joke or a laughing stock. I feel that that is incorrect. But the underlying arguements that they make have some very valid points.

Daniel
 

ATC

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Olympic TKD is a joke because it is not TKD, it is not a martial art and even as a sport it is too boring to deserve a place in the olympics.
If my lineage was closer to TKD I would probably feel sad too.
This is just your opinion. There are many that don't agree with you.
 

Cirdan

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This is just your opinion.

No really? Who else`s opinion would it be?

There are many that don't agree with you.

Pretty obvious too.


Anyway my opinion, such at is is, is based on the following facts:

Fact 1: Olympic TKD is far far removed from the old school version of the art. Those two has as little in common as a medieval knight and an entertainer juggling chainsaws.

Fact 2: a LOT of people were utterly disappointed by how boring the TKD "fights" in the olympics were.

Take it as you will. Even if I think it is a joke I don`t really care if it stays in the olympics or not. Either way it has little impact on what I train and do.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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Anyway my opinion, such at is is, is based on the following facts:

Fact 1: Olympic TKD is far far removed from the old school version of the art. Those two has as little in common as a medieval knight and an entertainer juggling chainsaws.
How about as little in common as a medieval knight and a sport fencer? That would be more accurate.

As far as 'old school' vs. 'Olympic TKD', Olympic TKD is not Olympic, sport taekwondo under the WTF rule set occurring in the venue that is the olympics, and has been around since the early seventies at least, and comes out of the Jidokwan, so it is not exactly new. In fact at this point, it is pretty old school in and of itself at this point.

The major difference is that it is not 'traditional', nor is it supposed to be. It was designed to differentiate taekwondo from Shotokan and to be a unique martial sport. It is also designed to emphasize and reward the more challenging act of kicking high and rapidly, which is certainly harder to do than punching high and rapidly.

Ultimately, it was the decision of the KKW/WTF to showcase taekwondo's kicks in tournament, rather than hand techniques. Given that open karate tournaments that tend to be more handsy already existed, I think that it was a good move; nothing prevents a handsy TKDist from participating in open karate tournaments so far as I know, so those who prefer that style of tournament already have an existing venue.

Fact 2: a LOT of people were utterly disappointed by how boring the TKD "fights" in the olympics were.
Boring? Come on now, the action was so intense that even the judges were getting kicked!:D

From what I saw the matches were not what I would have expected for athletes at that level. Some years, the olympics are more exciting than others, some years less, depending on the sport.

Daniel
 

ATC

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How about as little in common as a medieval knight and a sport fencer? That would be more accurate.

As far as 'old school' vs. 'Olympic TKD', Olympic TKD is not Olympic, sport taekwondo under the WTF rule set occurring in the venue that is the olympics, and has been around since the early seventies at least, and comes out of the Jidokwan, so it is not exactly new. In fact at this point, it is pretty old school in and of itself at this point.

The major difference is that it is not 'traditional', nor is it supposed to be. It was designed to differentiate taekwondo from Shotokan and to be a unique martial sport. It is also designed to emphasize and reward the more challenging act of kicking high and rapidly, which is certainly harder to do than punching high and rapidly.

Ultimately, it was the decision of the KKW/WTF to showcase taekwondo's kicks in tournament, rather than hand techniques. Given that open karate tournaments that tend to be more handsy already existed, I think that it was a good move; nothing prevents a handsy TKDist from participating in open karate tournaments so far as I know, so those who prefer that style of tournament already have an existing venue.


Boring? Come on now, the action was so intense that even the judges were getting kicked!:D

From what I saw the matches were not what I would have expected for athletes at that level. Some years, the olympics are more exciting than others, some years less, depending on the sport.

Daniel
Ding ding ding ding....What do we have here? A moderate?! Come on dude...get off the fence and join a side
icon12.gif
....Just kidding. Good points.
 

terryl965

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All I know is this, sport TKD is just that a sport with rules and judges scoring, the principle is the same that you will find in every sport score more than your opponet and you win. It takes alot of committment for young childern as well as adult to train everyday 3-6 hours. In most sport you have a chance for a scolarship or even the pro or semi pro to make some money but it Olympic TKD all these athlete know there chance of making it to the Olympics is worst than hitting the lottery and still they train. Please do not get me wrong here but in any sport there is monatary gain somewhere down the pipeline but not Olympic TKD except if you are one of four athletes for that year.

I love TKD and I mean old school for some they understand for others they have no clue but I have become a fan of Olympic TKD for what it is a sport, my sons enjoy and alot of my people do it. I do have my traditional class but people bad mouth it but yet it is everywhere, why simple it is something the family as a whole can do together even gym membership will not let childern under the age of 13 to left wieghts, so the public grabbed these and it took off. My only sinble problem is when some instructor try and pass some of this a s a SD base sport it is not, SD is brutal and we only have survivals not a winner. Let all try and remember not everybody is the same when it comes toan art but we all should have been tought by our instructors to be respectful of those in the arts not matter sport or art.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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Ding ding ding ding....What do we have here? A moderate?! Come on dude...get off the fence and join a side
icon12.gif
....Just kidding. Good points.
I am pretty neutral on the subject.

So long as those who train strictly for sport are made aware that it is a sport and not misled into thinking that they are getting practical SD, no harm no foul.

Not my cup of tea, but I respect the athleticism and the work that goes into being successful in the sport venue.

Daniel
 

Twin Fist

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I am pretty neutral on the subject.

So long as those who train strictly for sport are made aware that it is a sport and not misled into thinking that they are getting practical SD, no harm no foul.

Not my cup of tea, but I respect the athleticism and the work that goes into being successful in the sport venue.

Daniel


this
 

Tez3

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繚 "Olympic-level competition Taekwondo today is considered one of the finest self-defence martial arts, and is practised at championship level in more than 150 countries."
http://www.olympics.org.uk/sporttechdetails.aspx?gt=s&sp=TK

From the British Olympic site. It's being promoted as a SD art. Precisely what it's not. This is why so many of us are annoyed at Olympic TKD.
 

ATC

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繚 "Olympic-level competition Taekwondo today is considered one of the finest self-defence martial arts, and is practised at championship level in more than 150 countries."
http://www.olympics.org.uk/sporttechdetails.aspx?gt=s&sp=TK

From the British Olympic site. It's being promoted as a SD art. Precisely what it's not. This is why so many of us are annoyed at Olympic TKD.
Someone not educated published a very bad definition. Shame on them. But it is on an Olympic site. So not to much harm can be done. The USA Olympic site seems to have more educated people trying to explain things. http://usa-taekwondo.us/content/index/5987
 

Gorilla

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Tez3....Why would I have to prove anything to you!!!!

And why would I apologize to anyone on this BBS!!!!!!!! It appears that you have the same opinion!!!! Olympic Sport TKD Sucks !!!!! They can't fight!!!!!! It is very hard to tell the difference between posts....I don't disparage what you do I very much admire all the martial arts....I admire the SD aspect and the sport aspect of martial arts...I much prefer the Self Defense aspects of Martial Arts....My kids do sport tkd and I have become a fan...
 

Daniel Sullivan

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It is not a question of whether or not they can fight. Some probably can defend themselves very well.

The big factor is that sport TKD is often presented as being self defense, when it is not. The same is true of BJJ. Both have techniques that cross over with SD, but neither are truly SD by themselves. Both have merit in their own light.

As for the WTF rule set sucking, that is a question of personal taste. I would rather watch WTF sport TKD than most programed television. Some people prefer the WWE. Go figure.

Daniel
 

Cirdan

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How about as little in common as a medieval knight and a sport fencer? That would be more accurate.

Perhaps it would be if fencing rules favored striking at the toes...


The major difference is that it is not 'traditional', nor is it supposed to be. It was designed to differentiate taekwondo from Shotokan and to be a unique martial sport. It is also designed to emphasize and reward the more challenging act of kicking high and rapidly, which is certainly harder to do than punching high and rapidly.

Ultimately, it was the decision of the KKW/WTF to showcase taekwondo's kicks in tournament, rather than hand techniques.

Indeed. Since it has left behind any traces of a traditional system it would be better if it took a more appropriate name too, like RythmicHeadKicking.

Boring? Come on now, the action was so intense that even the judges were getting kicked!:D

Yeah, we want more of that don`t we? Public perception: not only do they play a kid`s game but they behave like kids too.
 
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