M
muayThaiPerson
Guest
wats the difference? sorry if this q sounds stupid
thesensei
Green Belt
Not a stupid question at all. I'm not sure about all the historical details, but basically, the ITF uses forms/patterns that are more closely related to the japanese style forms they came out of. The ITF also uses more point sparring (not always true, but it seems to be the greater emphasis). The WTF has developed another set of patterns, and they emphasize Olympic style sparring. Generally an ITF practitioner will wear the kimono type top, and the WTF normally wears the "V-neck" top.
Basically, it's just two variations on a theme!
Hope that helps...I'm sure someone else can give more historical/technical detail, but that's the idea!!
JB
Basically, it's just two variations on a theme!
Hope that helps...I'm sure someone else can give more historical/technical detail, but that's the idea!!
JB
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
I run an ITF school but often train at other WTF schools (like right now).
Main differences:
-ITF punches to the head and face, WTF does not
-ITF kicks to the face, WTF does not
-patterns are different, but there are tons of similar movements and stances
-protective gear for major competitions is different. ITF must wear hand and feet coverings. WTF must wear shin and instep covering, chest protector and helmet.
-WTF guys like to say that they are full contact and ITF are not...I've done both and WTF is no more full contact than ITF. Both tournaments have people getting knocked out with broken noses and jaws occasionally. This is all from the black belt mens perspective. Things are different for colour belts.
-some technique names are different...but they are also different within the federations too sometimes! heh
-uniforms are different
Other than all that, training at a WTF school can be as varied as training at an ITF school. Some from both focus mostly on sport, some from both focus mostly on street defence and some are a cardio kick class.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Main differences:
-ITF punches to the head and face, WTF does not
-ITF kicks to the face, WTF does not
-patterns are different, but there are tons of similar movements and stances
-protective gear for major competitions is different. ITF must wear hand and feet coverings. WTF must wear shin and instep covering, chest protector and helmet.
-WTF guys like to say that they are full contact and ITF are not...I've done both and WTF is no more full contact than ITF. Both tournaments have people getting knocked out with broken noses and jaws occasionally. This is all from the black belt mens perspective. Things are different for colour belts.
-some technique names are different...but they are also different within the federations too sometimes! heh
-uniforms are different
Other than all that, training at a WTF school can be as varied as training at an ITF school. Some from both focus mostly on sport, some from both focus mostly on street defence and some are a cardio kick class.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
cali_tkdbruin
Master of Arts
I study the Kukkiwon style, and yes, in a short, concise way Mr. Mavis has touched on the principal differences between the two organizations. But, Taekwondo is still Taekwondo. BTW the Kukkiwon in South Korea is site of the headquarters of the WTF... :asian:
I kick to the face, I've been kicked in the face, in competition it is very legal. Likewise so is the throat . . . just not with a punch. The instep covering though can't be worn in BB competition, just shin, forearm, hogu, and headgear.
Other than that Mr Mavis, I agree with you. I've trained and a couple different WTF/Kukki schools while away for work or vacation and they are very diverse, I'm sure the same is for the ITF.
Cali . . . . Kukkiwon is the "World Taekwondo Headquarters" and is a seperate entity completely. The only thing the WTF and Kukkiwon share in common is that you need a kukkiwon dan certificate to compete in WTF competition (international and national mostly)
I don't think the kukkiwon and the Wtf are in the same building either . . . I may be wrong though. Cali do you know for sure? I could probably look up the addresses myself right now . . . . but . . . well I feel lazy right now . . . . :shrug:
Cheers
cali_tkdbruin
Master of Arts
I guess it should be clearer in my posts, but, I guess I was too tired too follow up. Anyway, both the WTF and Kukkiwon are synonymous; they do go hand in hand.
Also, until last year they were located together at the same site in South Korea, and you are right, they now have different offices. The WTF has transferred their HQ away from the Kukkiwon see:
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/tknews/news.asp?div=4®ular=28&article=Other news
Sorry for the confusion, the last time I looked at my WTF/Kukkiwon certificate they were still together... :asian:
Cali_TKD
cali_tkdbruin
Master of Arts
You are correct sir. Looking at my certificate, there's a drawing of the Kukkiwon, a mention of the World Taekwondo headquarters, and the signature of Un Yong Kim, President of the Kukkiwon, who by the way also heads the WTF.
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/introduce/sogae.asp?div=1[/URL]
That's why in my mind I associated them as being synonymous. But, as was previously mentioned, it's WTF for the Olympics and sanctioned tournaments, and the Kukkiwon for dan grading standards. And for us who are Americans, what about the Unitied States Taekwondo Union? Although, they aren't mentioned on my certificate yet... :shrug:
I had heard at one point that Dr. Kim had stepped down from one of the positions of presidency of either KKW or WTF, but I see by your link that he hasn't . . . . wonder how I came to that impression. Wonder how recent that page is as well
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
Langdow, I've kicked people in the nuts and been kicked in the nuts...it doesnt make it a legal target haha. Ask some other instructors the official olympic sparring rules and see what they say about the face being a legal target for kicking. They all told me it was not a legal target... did things change recently maybe?
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
True true, just because it isn't a target doesn't mean it gets hit . . . however under the WTF rules which I am a national class ref in your country, it is legal to kick to the face.
I think the exact ruling is under article 5 (I'll do a check when I get my manual in front of me) where the legal attacking targets include the full torso excluding direct kicking to the spine. This is a new ruling used to never be able to kick to the back but as of July of last year this is now in effect. For the head, anything that is determined the front is a target. This includes everything forward of the ears, including the top of the head, face, side of the head forward of ears, and even throat. Even the top of the shoulders is considered the head in scoring terms. Anything considered a head target can only be contacted with feet, but that's pretty well known
I'm not sure who was telling you that the face isn't a target, but the rule book is very specific about what the targets are, and they've been that way for quite awhile, since before I was around at least. I'll do a check in my manual and get you the specific article and quote for you too . . . when I get home from work
BTW how's the training overseas going? I could be down in your neck of the woods in Can fairly soon, I'll have to look you up and come down for a ITF class, if you'll let me.
I think the exact ruling is under article 5 (I'll do a check when I get my manual in front of me) where the legal attacking targets include the full torso excluding direct kicking to the spine. This is a new ruling used to never be able to kick to the back but as of July of last year this is now in effect. For the head, anything that is determined the front is a target. This includes everything forward of the ears, including the top of the head, face, side of the head forward of ears, and even throat. Even the top of the shoulders is considered the head in scoring terms. Anything considered a head target can only be contacted with feet, but that's pretty well known
I'm not sure who was telling you that the face isn't a target, but the rule book is very specific about what the targets are, and they've been that way for quite awhile, since before I was around at least. I'll do a check in my manual and get you the specific article and quote for you too . . . when I get home from work
BTW how's the training overseas going? I could be down in your neck of the woods in Can fairly soon, I'll have to look you up and come down for a ITF class, if you'll let me.
Oops, I was wrong, got home and checked for that rule specifically.
Damian the section in the WTF rule book regarding kicking to the face is actually under article 11 section 2. If you have any other WTF instructor/practicioner tell you otherwise, you can direct them specifically to that point
Damian the section in the WTF rule book regarding kicking to the face is actually under article 11 section 2. If you have any other WTF instructor/practicioner tell you otherwise, you can direct them specifically to that point
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
I'll do exactly that! In fact I'll talk to the WTF instructor about it that I am training with here. The training here is great, although I am mostly doing Muay Thai. If you want to read up on that training you can find it in the Muay Thai section.
If you ever want to visit my schools you are more than welcome, everyone is. I won't be back in Canada until Feb. 26th. Will you be in Ottawa before then? If you are you can still visit, my most senior assistant instructor is teaching classes at my favorite branch which is where you would want to go train. He is 2nd degree at the moment and a very good instructor. Let me know if and when you will be down and I'll let people know.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
If you ever want to visit my schools you are more than welcome, everyone is. I won't be back in Canada until Feb. 26th. Will you be in Ottawa before then? If you are you can still visit, my most senior assistant instructor is teaching classes at my favorite branch which is where you would want to go train. He is 2nd degree at the moment and a very good instructor. Let me know if and when you will be down and I'll let people know.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
OP
fissure
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #14
Damian, you got some bad info. All Adult WTF competition allows full contact kicking to the face. I don't hold a ref. certification, but I've competed in many state championships, and 3 National championships (USTU), kicking your opponent in the mouth is the whole point!
cali_tkdbruin
Master of Arts
Originally posted by fissure
Damian, you got some bad info. All Adult WTF competition allows full contact kicking to the face. I don't hold a ref. certification, but I've competed in many state championships, and 3 National championships (USTU), kicking your opponent in the mouth is the whole point!
I'm not a ref either, but, either the ref missed it or I suppose that's why I didn't get penalized in the last tourney (USTU) in which I competed when I racked my opponent across the cheek with a high roundhouse, leaving him with an ugly *** raspberry. I felt bad afterwards... :shrug:
