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Daniel Sullivan

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So I got a call from a lady who said her son and his friends recently tested for their black belts in tkd. The problem is that the instructor was unable to secure kkw certification for them. She assured me that the kids knew their stuff so I set up a meeting to evaluate them.
OH MY GOD!
I spent an hour with the 3 who could make it. I had fun with them at first to lighten the mood. Stances were non existant (poomsae). No foot/hip rotation on round/side/hook kicks. Had no idea what a back kick was. Good push/crecent kicks. No solid foot positions. They all had floppy feet.
Good discipline though. Thought they were gonna make me deaf with their yells.
When I asked. to see sparring one of the boys started to cry. They had not sparred in over a year.
I ended the session with flying side kicks, which were good except for the landings, and sent the kids to change. Their parents came up to me with checkbooks in hand asking "how much for the certs?" I told them that their children needed some work before I could do that, mabye 6 months or more. They were outraged. I asked them to sit and watch one of my kids, 2nd poom, demonstrate his techniques. After 10 min of drills, poomsae and light sparring motions I saw faces change.
The next day a very upset instructor called me and demanded to know why his top students turned in their belts and quit. Turns out he has no ranking in tkd. He is an okinowa te black belt who was hired by some gm to run a school. He learned the taegueks, incorrectly, and that is all. He broke ties with that gm and is running a tkd school on his own. Total fraud... he tried to bribe me for their certs...LOL! Anyone who knows me would laugh. I would live on the street b4 selling out.
So my dilemma is : what level do I start the kids at? It is not their fault but I can not give them poom.
Put them at dan bo or first geub (whichever is one below black at your school) and see how they progress. Take it class by class and student by student. Get them up to speed and once you feel that they're ready to test, turn 'em loose.

I'd introduce them as BB TKD students from a different TKD school that had a different curriculum and that they are now getting up to speed on the curriculum at your school to explain them being at the top of the colored belts.

Daniel
 

miguksaram

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Just one other suggestion that has worked well with us in the past. Start them as white, but assign a mentor to them to help them get back to where they were. Let them know that they will not be on a regular testing cycle for a while and may be able to earn their rank quickly as they have prior experience, but you want to make sure they know your curriculum thoroughly.

The mentor will work with them and when they feel they are ready for their next rank they simply come to you and let you know. You can observe them and then, if they earned it, give their next rank. I would also suggest not charging for the rank promotion, unless you just want to recoup for the belt cost. Once they get to the level they were supposed to be at in the first place then you place them on the regular testing cycle and charge accordingly.
 

d1jinx

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interesting Idea. I Have some issues with taking them all the way back to white... but still an interesting idea that I might think about in the future.

1 reason I have with taking them back to white is.... if they are sparring with fellow ranks, they truly have an advantage cause they are not really a white/beginner level...

Not knocking your idea cause I like it. just thinking of a way to modify it with my beliefs alittle.
 

miguksaram

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interesting Idea. I Have some issues with taking them all the way back to white... but still an interesting idea that I might think about in the future.

1 reason I have with taking them back to white is.... if they are sparring with fellow ranks, they truly have an advantage cause they are not really a white/beginner level...

Not knocking your idea cause I like it. just thinking of a way to modify it with my beliefs alittle.

You can implement it according to where you feel they are at. For example we have had someone come in as a brown belt who really was not at the same level as our school however he was better than our beginner level. So we placed him with an intermediate rank and would follow the same process. Assign a mentor who would work with him with our curriculum, starting with white belt->orange belt items. Once he got all of those down we reviewed his knowledge and if he passed, gave him his orange belt certificate. This continued until he was finally at the belt level where we placed him along with correct knowledge for that belt level.
 

jks9199

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interesting Idea. I Have some issues with taking them all the way back to white... but still an interesting idea that I might think about in the future.

1 reason I have with taking them back to white is.... if they are sparring with fellow ranks, they truly have an advantage cause they are not really a white/beginner level...

Not knocking your idea cause I like it. just thinking of a way to modify it with my beliefs alittle.
You're not required to limit sparring by belt level in circumstances like that. Let's say I came into your school; I've never studied TKD formally, so I'm a white belt, right? I don't know any of your forms, may not know your techniques, etc. But I sure ain't a beginner... Would you really want to put me (with 20+ years training) up against a white belt? Even if I'm working under a new rule set -- it's not fair to my opponents for me to fight them, right?

So... for these students, if you drop them down to white belt... they fight as mid-grade belts, wherever is appropriate for their skill and experience.
 

d1jinx

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I was thinking more along the lines of that, evaluating and placing where appropriate. I was more or less thinking of the "white belt no matter what" idea, which most were not implying.

As for the sparring, you see, here's the deal; Beginner class is just that beginners. Intermediate class is intermediate, advanced is advanced. Not everyon has 1 consolidated sparring class of all ranks. Usually beginners train with begnners etc...

Also I am thinking more along the lines of not just class but a competition as well. I feel it is an unfair advantage that so & so is a black belt but dont meet my standards so I will place them at blue belt. They enter a tournament with black belt experience as a blue belt. For example, I see/knew a few black belts who put on red belts because they could win in that division. not right or fair.

ehhh... but still in the end, we are all in aggreement of placing them where they fit most comfortably and not just a "you dont do it my way so WHITE belt".
 

Gorilla

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My kids about 6 months ago started training in Shotokan Karate. My son is a 3rd Poom(14yrs Old) and my daughter is a 2 Dan(16 yrs old) TKD. They wore no belts for the first 3 months Sensei Allen then had another high ranking Shotokan Sensie Igaki evaluate them. They then gave them the appropriate rank to skill level per their evaluation. I was very impressed with how professionally they handled the situation.

The rank given to them was very well received by the other Karateka.

It was a great way to do it.

No Belt...3 month training period ...Evaluation by a neutral 3rd party... Appropriate Rank Awarded...

It gave the instructor a period of time to evaluate the student fairly(with out emotion/ego). It gave my kids a time to feel comfortable in a new Martial Art. They got a neutral 3rd Party Evaluation...An appropriate rank was given causing no waves in the Studio...
 

IcemanSK

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My kids about 6 months ago started training in Shotokan Karate. My son is a 3rd Poom(14yrs Old) and my daughter is a 2 Dan(16 yrs old) TKD. They wore no belts for the first 3 months Sensei Allen then had another high ranking Shotokan Sensie Igaki evaluate them. They then gave them the appropriate rank to skill level per their evaluation. I was very impressed with how professionally they handled the situation.

The rank given to them was very well received by the other Karateka.

It was a great way to do it.

No Belt...3 month training period ...Evaluation by a neutral 3rd party... Appropriate Rank Awarded...

It gave the instructor a period of time to evaluate the student fairly(with out emotion/ego). It gave my kids a time to feel comfortable in a new Martial Art. They got a neutral 3rd Party Evaluation...An appropriate rank was given causing no waves in the Studio...

I like that Gorilla. I'm not sure it would be met the same way in the OP's situation. For your kids in their situation, I think it's perfect, however.
 

Gorilla

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I like that Gorilla. I'm not sure it would be met the same way in the OP's situation. For your kids in their situation, I think it's perfect, however.

It has worked very well. Sensei Allen is a true professional!

BTW...They really enjoy Shotokan and Sport Karate!!!!
 

KarateMomUSA

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Some more good suggestions.
I would just like to caution that the scenario involves kids. We were even told that one cried when they were told that they have to spar. So it does indeed seem that this kids were at best misled or done somewhat of a disservice with their previous training. The potential new instructor has a chance to not only help correct that, but impact this young kids in a more positive way. So I humbly further suggest that it should not be focused solely on the belt, but the opportunity to help these kids. Since they are kids, they may not stay & stick it out. So if one hopes to be able to have the time required to sort them out & do something positive, they must come into the new school, if not, opportunities for all, may be lost. So since that are kids, babies in life, 1st make them comfortable, so you can have the opportunity to help them, sort of like the barber, doctor, dentist etc that has a treat for the kids to get them to sit for what they were taken in the door for by their parents.
 

jks9199

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I was thinking more along the lines of that, evaluating and placing where appropriate. I was more or less thinking of the "white belt no matter what" idea, which most were not implying.

As for the sparring, you see, here's the deal; Beginner class is just that beginners. Intermediate class is intermediate, advanced is advanced. Not everyon has 1 consolidated sparring class of all ranks. Usually beginners train with begnners etc...

Also I am thinking more along the lines of not just class but a competition as well. I feel it is an unfair advantage that so & so is a black belt but dont meet my standards so I will place them at blue belt. They enter a tournament with black belt experience as a blue belt. For example, I see/knew a few black belts who put on red belts because they could win in that division. not right or fair.

ehhh... but still in the end, we are all in aggreement of placing them where they fit most comfortably and not just a "you dont do it my way so WHITE belt".
So... they compete as black belts. Many years back, that's what happened with my teachers. Their instructor would give them a black belt at the start of the tournament, then take it back afterwards! I don't think they ever fought as anything but black belts.
 
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msmitht

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All good ideas. Don't like the idea of putting them at white belt but understand where you are coming from. One did not come in. The rest seem to like class just fine. Put them in Poom (red/black) belts. I normally use black belts, as I suspect most of you do, for my poom belts. This way they are not demoted, not promoted. I worked out a lesson plan with the group, PL, in order to fix specific techniques. Hopefully all goes well.
Till next time....
 
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