wow...a $3000 1st poom exam!

Carol

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Why would you say power to a grandmaster who charges an exorbitant and then not deliver on what was promised?

3000 x 50 = 150,000. To gross $150,000 from one event and then not deliver sounds rather scummy to me, if not fraudulent.
 

Archtkd

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Why would you say power to a grandmaster who charges an exorbitant and then not deliver on what was promised?

3000 x 50 = 150,000. To gross $150,000 from one event and then not deliver sounds rather scummy to me, if not fraudulent.

Shouldn't the customer/s be complaining? It didn't sound like the person who was charged $3,000 was raising any hell or calling legal authorities.
 

Carol

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Shouldn't the customer/s be complaining? It didn't sound like the person who was charged $3,000 was raising any hell or calling legal authorities.

So this business model is perfectly acceptable unless the customer complains? Wow.
 

Archtkd

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So this business model is perfectly acceptable unless the customer complains? Wow.

Save for the part where the certificate hasn't been delivered after 8 months, what's terribly wrong with the business model? Key word being business.
 

ralphmcpherson

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Save for the part where the certificate hasn't been delivered after 8 months, what's terribly wrong with the business model? Key word being business.
I agree, some blame for this sort of thing has to go to the consumer. I have run a business (not martial arts) for the last 11 years and if I could charge more and still keep clientel then I certainly would. If this guy can charge $3000 and people are stupid enough to pay it, then good on him. Its not fraudulent, he is not ripping them off or doing anything illegal. This happens in all forms of business, my wife is a jeweller and the mark up in that industry is disgustingly high, I have mates who are electrical contractors and the money they make is obscene, they are paying their house off in 2 years, plus have the nice cars and boats and fancy holidays etc. If the consumer will pay it then the businesses will charge it. As I said, most of the blame here goes to the consumer who doent bother to 'shop around'. The only problem I see is that they still havent received their cert after 8 months.
 
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msmitht

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Yes, the gm in question is korean. The students mother has contacted him several times and was told that the cert was ordered. I told her I can order it but she is hesitant. Will not believe that her former gm would take advantage of her and others.
 

granfire

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I agree, some blame for this sort of thing has to go to the consumer. I have run a business (not martial arts) for the last 11 years and if I could charge more and still keep clientel then I certainly would. If this guy can charge $3000 and people are stupid enough to pay it, then good on him. Its not fraudulent, he is not ripping them off or doing anything illegal. This happens in all forms of business, my wife is a jeweller and the mark up in that industry is disgustingly high, I have mates who are electrical contractors and the money they make is obscene, they are paying their house off in 2 years, plus have the nice cars and boats and fancy holidays etc. If the consumer will pay it then the businesses will charge it. As I said, most of the blame here goes to the consumer who doent bother to 'shop around'. The only problem I see is that they still havent received their cert after 8 months.

Well, overpaying is one problem, but not delivering the good (the certificate) not THAT is a different matter.

(personally I would not pay a fraction for it, but that's me)

But leaving the customer hanging like that...(I am sure now that she is a 'former' student, her cert has lost on priority....)
 

Archtkd

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Yes, the gm in question is korean. The students mother has contacted him several times and was told that the cert was ordered. I told her I can order it but she is hesitant. Will not believe that her former gm would take advantage of her and others.

In this case she should seek legal redress. The part about her being hesitant to believe she was taken advantage of is what I don't get, hence my hesitation to empathize. I mean what does it take, for people to realize they are being taken. Someone is told a Kukkiwon poom certificate which cost $70 is $3,000 and they just believe that with no question, especially when said document is not delivered after 8 months.
 

Archtkd

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Her name is still not in the kkw database as of this morning.

I had not seen this bit. Has the parent thought about suing. Surely if she can afford to dish out $3,000 paying an attorney shouldn't be a problem. maybe there might be a few lawyers here on MT that would be willing to take the case.
 

miguksaram

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SOUNDS LIKE ATU AND KOREAN BORN INSTRUCTORS TO ME BLEED THE NON KOREANS FOR ALL THEY ARE WORTH! ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY BOYS BUSINESS AND USE THEM STUPID NON KOREANS FOR ALL THEY ARE WORTH. Read the text of the Masters license all about commercialization of what was a traditiona art form gee you think the Olypics is any different why the cover up drug users and child abuers?
I like how you single in on the guy being a Korean born instructor ripping off non-Koreans. Is that really relevant?

Tell you what, when your white hood and sheet get back from the cleaners we can go have ourselves a good ol' fashion Korean flag burnin' and lynchin'.
 

miguksaram

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My take is simple. I do not fault the person for charging $3000.00. Hey, if people are willing to pay it, then why not? Who are we to be judgmental over it? Should I fault the TKD school next door to me because they charge their students twice as much for lessons as we do? If I charge my students $80.00 for a KKW cert and the guy down the street charges only $20.00 am I the @$$hole for charging more?

What I do fault him for is not following through on certificates like he should have. That is where the problem lies. Is it a shame that she overpaid for the certificate? Yes, it is a shame. Caveat emptor.
 

d1jinx

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What I do fault him for is not following through on certificates like he should have. That is where the problem lies. Is it a shame that she overpaid for the certificate? Yes, it is a shame. Caveat emptor.

I agree with you completely. we do not know the lifestyle these people came from. Perhaps it was the Beverly Hills of PA. And money is of no concern for these people this GM serves/robs. The point is, he can name whatever price he wants. those who attend decide if it is what they are willing to pay.

it is deceptive for the GM NOT to submit what he has charge for and this is the real issue. One that led up to things like the USAT SPECIAL TEST at Vegas and other Mass testing clinics. if GM were honest about submitting paperwork and did it like they were supposed to, we wouldn't have the over-hyped and inflated DANS we have now who run to every testing clinic available and grab rank.

This type of action leads to a larger reaction down the road. the persons who were deceived, will now have the impression that it really is "TAKE YOUR DOE"...
 

terryl965

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But this has been going on for years and it will continue to be a problem. Why simple greed, people are greedy society is greedy. Greed is the biggest factor in people not delivering the goods.
 

miguksaram

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But this has been going on for years and it will continue to be a problem. Why simple greed, people are greedy society is greedy. Greed is the biggest factor in people not delivering the goods.
Yes and no. Could be plain laziness not delivering the goods. One of those things that he keeps putting off. Not saying it is justified, just might not be greed. Again I don't fault him for charging an outrageous price. He has every right as a business to charge whatever he feels like. That is beauty of capitalism. If he can get 50 people to pay him that money, then hats off to him. Greed? Maybe. As a QA Analyst for software I get a pretty decent pay. A bit more then I need for basic survival for my family. Should I tell them that I want less money because they are paying me more than I really need? I don't think so. Come next year I am going to bug the crap out of them for a raise. :)
 

terryl965

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Yes and no. Could be plain laziness not delivering the goods. One of those things that he keeps putting off. Not saying it is justified, just might not be greed. Again I don't fault him for charging an outrageous price. He has every right as a business to charge whatever he feels like. That is beauty of capitalism. If he can get 50 people to pay him that money, then hats off to him. Greed? Maybe. As a QA Analyst for software I get a pretty decent pay. A bit more then I need for basic survival for my family. Should I tell them that I want less money because they are paying me more than I really need? I don't think so. Come next year I am going to bug the crap out of them for a raise. :)

OK not talking about the price, people will buy what they feel its worth. The greed I am talking abouit is simply never filling for it and keeping that money or people charging and have no intention to ever get them there certs. I know people that have been waiting for two years and everytime they ask it is some story. Greed is more than money. No you should make all you can since you have the right too.
 

miguksaram

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OK not talking about the price, people will buy what they feel its worth. The greed I am talking abouit is simply never filling for it and keeping that money or people charging and have no intention to ever get them there certs. I know people that have been waiting for two years and everytime they ask it is some story. Greed is more than money. No you should make all you can since you have the right too.
I agree with this. Follow through is key.
 

Balrog

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wow...a $3000 1st poom exam!
==========
I gotta raise my rates.....
 

shima

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$3000 really is over the top. Just because you have clientele that are silly enough to pay for the fee, doesn't mean you should make them bend over and pay it just because you can. At that point you're making their test more than just a test, you're making it an ordeal, financial and planning wise, it's no longer focused on the core test itself but on the extravagance surrounding it.
 

miguksaram

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$3000 really is over the top. Just because you have clientele that are silly enough to pay for the fee, doesn't mean you should make them bend over and pay it just because you can. At that point you're making their test more than just a test, you're making it an ordeal, financial and planning wise, it's no longer focused on the core test itself but on the extravagance surrounding it.
But you don't know that. Like it was stated $3K might be a drop in the bucket for these people. If I have people who are willing to pay that then why not. However, if I ask 50 people to pay and only 1 can do it, then it is time to rethink my pricing.
 
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