$$$Black Belt/Poom test$$$

bluewaveschool

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Uniform, cert, and dinner? I now feel like I'm ripping off students just buying them a plain belt. But I don't get paid and they don't pay testing fees or monthly fees if they are YMCA members, so I guess it's not so bad.
 

dancingalone

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It's a cool thing to take a 'working' vacation to Korea if one can afford it. I would hope allowances are made for candidates who can't however.
 

Balrog

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Not trying to be nasty, but what makes the 2nd or 3rd degree more special? I mean 100, 200, 300 dollars more special?
Achievement of a goal and establishing new goals.

The Black Belt testing fees are set by the association. The student is required to do three midterm tests prior to testing for rank and the midterm testing fees are credited toward the actual testing fee. In effect, they spread the cost out over time.
 

ralphmcpherson

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Not trying to be nasty, but what makes the 2nd or 3rd degree more special? I mean 100, 200, 300 dollars more special?
I dont agree with it, but I believe their logic is that by 5th dan (for instance) you have not graded for 5 years, so by looking at it as a yearly thing they would feel you owe more. At my club you train for free once 4th dan and above so the club makes no money out of anyone over 4th dan except when they pay their grading fees, so no one really cares about paying extra for the higher dan gradings.
 

granfire

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I dont agree with it, but I believe their logic is that by 5th dan (for instance) you have not graded for 5 years, so by looking at it as a yearly thing they would feel you owe more. At my club you train for free once 4th dan and above so the club makes no money out of anyone over 4th dan except when they pay their grading fees, so no one really cares about paying extra for the higher dan gradings.


Well, if you do train for free, then putting down some coin for the grading isn't bad.

The organization I trained under had 2 prices for tests, varying a bit from school to school, but color belts had one fee, BBs another. not high, but no difference between 1st to 3rd. Never got higher, 4th had to test at a national event, in front of all the big wigs...
But all through that you paid your membership.
But no uniform
no dinner
no KKW certificate
no free rides.
(also, most BBs ended up in the instructor program...no free rides there, either)
 

ralphmcpherson

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Well, if you do train for free, then putting down some coin for the grading isn't bad.

The organization I trained under had 2 prices for tests, varying a bit from school to school, but color belts had one fee, BBs another. not high, but no difference between 1st to 3rd. Never got higher, 4th had to test at a national event, in front of all the big wigs...
But all through that you paid your membership.
But no uniform
no dinner
no KKW certificate
no free rides.
(also, most BBs ended up in the instructor program...no free rides there, either)
Ive never understood a "club membership fee" and then you pay training fees on top of that. I would have thought that the training fees are membership. We just pay $50 a month to train and thats it, plus when you join you get a free uniform inclusive in the $50 per month. We do pay to attend black belt class though if we choose to go.
 

granfire

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hmm was late when I wrote that.
to clarify:
Monthly fee to be a member of the school. I don't begrudge it the instructors, they have to pay rent or Mortgage on the facilities.
There is a yearly membership fee for the organization, it's not very high a couple of bucks a month, to 'keep records'
 

terryl965

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People will pay so society has made a point to let these so call instructor fleece the flock so be it, nobody cares when society lets gas goes up by 1000 percent a week but once again if people allow it they will do it.
 

granfire

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Yeah, but people will also knock the under priced services
or complain regardless of price.
 

terryl965

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Yeah, but people will also knock the under priced services
or complain regardless of price.

This is so true, when my prices was only $50.00 a month full time people would say I cannot be as good as so and so because they charge more.
 

d1jinx

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you know, "fleecing the flock" is a very bad thing. taking advantage and Charging rediculously high prices for testing is crooked and makes us all look bad...

However, to everyone who thinks a testing fee should only be $70 cause thats all KKW charges, you live in a fairy tale. I suppose the instructors should teach for free and devote their life to babysitting you and your kids for free because you think its the Moral thing to Teach for free.

New flash, this isn't a 17th century civilization where everything is free cause you traded your chicken for a goat. You dont get to drop your kids off at the temple for the munks to train for free cause its what they do.

A school owner and instructor has devoted thier life (hopefully) to the art. they are the expert (hopefully) at what they do. When you choose to go to them, you are being trained by them. It is a privilage you have chosen to do and will choose if WHAT THEY CHARGE is reasonable to YOU.

Testing fees that have be determined by the instructor are non-negotiable. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE TRAINING YOU< THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE PROMOTING YOU. at the end of the day, it is their NAME that you carry when asked who promoted you. They have the right to charge what they want based on any means they used to determine that price. If you dont like it... find another school.

msmitht your prices are reasonable.
I would not have explained the breakdown of it to anyone. You charge what you have determined to be a fair amount and at the end of the day, they have found it to be fair as well.

Bottom line, this luxury that we choose to do, is still a business that has to pay the bills. Your value is what you put into it and your reputation is at risk.
 

d1jinx

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question?

why come no one ever called Bruce Lee a crook?

Did you see his fees? And those were before he made it big...

So why was it ok for him to charge so much? :idunno:

I never heard anyone who studied under him complain that he should teach for free.

oh... maybe its because they found value in what he had to offer. :duh:
 

Gorilla

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I will pay what I feel a Master/Trainer/Coach is worth to me!!! If he/she charges more that I think they are worth then it is my choice to make after discussing with the Master. It is important that these discussions are done with great discretion! If it cannot be worked out then you should move on to a different place and there should be no hard feelings on either side.

Unfortunately these situations rarely end well as egos and feelings get involved. When money is involved things get magnified.

Masters charge what you believe your services to be worth! Your students will either agree and pay or they will go to another provider.

I the end it always boils down to a business transaction! If you think that its is worth it! Pay it! If not move on!!!!
 

IcemanSK

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you know, "fleecing the flock" is a very bad thing. taking advantage and Charging rediculously high prices for testing is crooked and makes us all look bad...

However, to everyone who thinks a testing fee should only be $70 cause thats all KKW charges, you live in a fairy tale. I suppose the instructors should teach for free and devote their life to babysitting you and your kids for free because you think its the Moral thing to Teach for free.

New flash, this isn't a 17th century civilization where everything is free cause you traded your chicken for a goat. You dont get to drop your kids off at the temple for the munks to train for free cause its what they do.

A school owner and instructor has devoted thier life (hopefully) to the art. they are the expert (hopefully) at what they do. When you choose to go to them, you are being trained by them. It is a privilage you have chosen to do and will choose if WHAT THEY CHARGE is reasonable to YOU.

Testing fees that have be determined by the instructor are non-negotiable. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE TRAINING YOU< THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE PROMOTING YOU. at the end of the day, it is their NAME that you carry when asked who promoted you. They have the right to charge what they want based on any means they used to determine that price. If you dont like it... find another school.

msmitht your prices are reasonable.
I would not have explained the breakdown of it to anyone. You charge what you have determined to be a fair amount and at the end of the day, they have found it to be fair as well.

Bottom line, this luxury that we choose to do, is still a business that has to pay the bills. Your value is what you put into it and your reputation is at risk.

I have to agree with this assessment. One of the issues that so many knowing what a KKW Dan costs is the speculation that folks are being charged too much if they're not being charged THAT amount.

Yes, there are unscrupulous folks in MA who charge outrageous fees. But there are physical training gyms in every town who charge much more than most TKD schools do. (One in my town charges $3000 a year for group classes!) There is not this kind of backlash against them for their prices. They say "yep, he bought a new BMW. He can afford it, cuz people pay him well."

Instructors don't take a vow of poverty. Students (and parents) value what costs them something. If it was free of charge, it would be of little value to them.
 

dortiz

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I never heard anyone who studied under him complain that he should teach for free.

oh... maybe its because they found value in what he had to offer


Not sure we are arguing the same point. I am VERY comfortable with a top teacher charging top dollar. Heck $500 a month if thats what it costs to train with the best. I just feel that grading is not an upfront fee in many schools and another way to spring fees out of the masses.
Many folks I have talked to did not expect the many tests fees and increasing amounts. You pay a huge amount to train and then the school is charging a ridiculous amount to test that in many cases was not clear up front.
Harvards not cheap and folks gladly pay for it. If at the end they told you its another 50k to graduate and actually get the diploma they said you had earned,that would be another discussion or in this case the one we are having.
 

d1jinx

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Not sure we are arguing the same point. I am VERY comfortable with a top teacher charging top dollar. Heck $500 a month if thats what it costs to train with the best. I just feel that grading is not an upfront fee in many schools and another way to spring fees out of the masses.
Many folks I have talked to did not expect the many tests fees and increasing amounts. You pay a huge amount to train and then the school is charging a ridiculous amount to test that in many cases was not clear up front.
Harvards not cheap and folks gladly pay for it. If at the end they told you its another 50k to graduate and actually get the diploma they said you had earned,that would be another discussion or in this case the one we are having.

That is a problem that should not exist. When entering a school, you SHOULD know the fees upfront. And I agree with you that it is unfair when schools charge unknown fees.

But to say this, doesnt mean that because you pay to train dont mean you should not have to pay to be promoted.

Dont get me wrong, I think we are on the same page. I believe that anyone walking in the door and signing up SHOULD NOT BE DECIEVED. everything should be up front. If and when you find out and are not happy.... WALK.

But to say that "I pay $XX monthly so testing should be free" is absurd.
 

Gorilla

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question?

why come no one ever called Bruce Lee a crook?

Did you see his fees? And those were before he made it big...

So why was it ok for him to charge so much? :idunno:

I never heard anyone who studied under him complain that he should teach for free.

oh... maybe its because they found value in what he had to offer. :duh:

Bruce Lee charged what his target market would allow. The amount he charged severely limited the size of his potential customers. He trained the super rich Athletes and Movie Stars of the time!!! Bruce charged what his market would allow and his talent would attract!!!! It is basic supply and demand!!!

Bruce did not get rich training people! He got rich making movies!
 

granfire

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Bruce Lee charged what his target market would allow. The amount he charged severely limited the size of his potential customers. He trained the super rich Athletes and Movie Stars of the time!!! Bruce charged what his market would allow and his talent would attract!!!! It is basic supply and demand!!!

Bruce did not get rich training people! He got rich making movies!

But before he got rich making movies he trained college students...
I do believe his wife was a former student of his...
 
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msmitht

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Ty all for you posts, even if it did get a little off track. I was venting a little. Some of the prices that people charge is ridiculous.Maybe if my school was bigger I would need to charge more. I don't think much more though. My gm told me that higher ranking black belts charge more because they feel entitled. At the Kukkiwon you pay a fair price, less cost of travel, and you will be judged according to your ability(be prepared).
Someone asked why I send 4th dan candidates to korea. I am an american instructor teaching a korean martial art/sport. I believe that if a student is willing to spend the time necessary to reach fourth poom/dan then a trip to the birthplace of tkd is mandatory. No one can argue your credentials if you pass your exam/course there. I also like knowing that I did my job right.
If the student could not afford the trip, or was unwilling, I would test them myself. Not past 4th.
 

WC_lun

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I've never really understood charging outragious fees for testing. It seems to me that for a lot of schools it is just another way to make money. I can understand covering costs and maybe a little extra for any instructors' time, but $1000s of dollars?! That is just criminal. For schools that aren't up front about testing fees, that is even more criminal.

Yes, there is something to paying more for something you think is worth it. However, many people I have seen pay these high fees don't know any better. They think it is normal to drop a couple of grand on a test because that is what they have been told by the instructor getting the money. When they do find out, they start to view all instructors with distrust. Much like people view mechanics because of the few crooked ones out there.
 
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