Zero
Master Black Belt
That would be a yes, I had vainly hoped what I had meant as wit would come across as such and without the need for online smiley clarifications, I was so wrong!
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Would this work?
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.We all have to be weary of Poe's law.That would be a yes, I had vainly hoped what I had meant as wit would come across as such and without the need for online smiley clarifications, I was so wrong!
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
I have always secured the weapon first and then hit the guy. Which here would mean knees rather than kicks.
but my last one with the scissors the guy got kicked in the head as part of the disarming process. Not by me though.
i have never seen a guy collapse backwards like that from a ground kick and doubt that would be the result.
worse case he will eat the kick grab your leg and you will have to fight to stay standing.
you could prevent that by grabbing his head pushing it down and throwing knees.
so it is going to be a toss up as to what you are willing to risk.
but my last one with the scissors the guy got kicked in the head as part of the disarming process. Not by me though.
i have never seen a guy collapse backwards like that from a ground kick and doubt that would be the result.
worse case he will eat the kick grab your leg and you will have to fight to stay standing.
you could prevent that by grabbing his head pushing it down and throwing knees.
so it is going to be a toss up as to what you are willing to risk.
At some point there will be an update or patch. It could be though that you need some Windows updates.
Well no, not really. They are far too busy, they have a lot to get in their basic training, being a soldier is far more technical than many realise. It's far more than just using weapons. here's a blog. ITC Catterick The Official British Army Blog
PS took me 3/4 hour to get on here, still have no inbox or 'alerts'. Every other site I use is fine, it's only this one!
A quick shufti through infantry training here. Those who are fans of Bernard Cornwall's Sharpe novels may recognise the cap badge. It's the Rifles (The Light Infantry) who wear green No1s (dress uniforms) and march faster than the rest of the British army (apart from the Gurkhas)
itc catterick - Bing Videos
itc catterick - Bing Videos
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I don't know about the British military, but the U.S. Army has the Modern Army Combaitves program and the Marine Corp has the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program.
I don't know about the British military, but the U.S. Army has the Modern Army Combaitves program and the Marine Corp has the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program.
The military here has a comprehensive sports programme including martial arts, we have several military personnel who fight in MMA including Martin Stapleton (TUF and UFC) who was a Royal Marine Commando until he came out recently. His MMA suffered with his deployments in Afghanistan. We have Olympic Judokas in the military as well.
pgsmith
Master of Arts
Unless it has changed recently, it's the Rangers that have Modern Army Combatives program, not the Army as a whole.
According to the Wikipedia article: "In August 2007, MAC training became required in every Army unit by Army regulation 350-1."
It's almost 30 years since I was in the military, so I don't have any first hand experience, but I've talked to friends in the Army who were not Rangers but had MAC training.
I once knew this guy who claimed to have some kind of government job. He might've been FBI although Im not sure. Anyway, according to him on some of his assignments he went to the Pentagon and that he saw Navy SEALS training in hand to hand combat where they would be sparring and kicking each other full contact wearing combat boots. Supposedly there's certain levels on the Pentagon where they do that. He apparently also saw somebody get slammed into the concrete with a judo type throw and they had to call in the medic and at first he thought he had died.
Anyway, no doubt this guy was full of it, I don't particularly believe his stories but I do know from some first hand sources that SEALS do get good H2H training.
Anyway, no doubt this guy was full of it, I don't particularly believe his stories but I do know from some first hand sources that SEALS do get good H2H training.
Yes, SEALs, Green Berets, and lots of other units get some hand to hand training. They do need to be prepared if disarmed, or if they're in a situation where they don't want to kill someone -- especially as the world of modern war fighting has evolved to include a lot more stuff that is closer to policing than all out warfare, with insurgent forces hiding among civilians. That doesn't change the simple fact that the primary approach of military fighting is ARMED.
As to full force training... probably not that much. It'd kind of suck to take your teammate out right before an op because you were practicing fisticuffs, y'know?
As to full force training... probably not that much. It'd kind of suck to take your teammate out right before an op because you were practicing fisticuffs, y'know?
Well yes I did once talk with a former Army Ranger and he said that they did some sparring in the sand pits but that the instructors made sure they didn't get too hard because they didn't want any of them to be unnecessarily injured where they couldn't function on a team because of all the money spent to train them. Training Rangers, SEALS, Green Berets, any of those elite soldiers is expensive and the government doesn't want to lose its investment by having somebody get injured and not able to do their job that they've been trained to do at great financial cost.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
i was on a forum with an American military guy who seemed legit. And asked him the question. How many fist fights in Afghanistan?
he said a lot. A couple of thousand.
if true hand to hand is pretty prevalent.
I know of one instructor who lost his contract with a SF unit because of unnecessary injuries in the training sessions.
Really? Who with, the insurgents? military v military? The later would make it just scraps btw not hand to hand. The insurgents in Afghan do not 'do' hand to hand, their style is hidden ieds, blowing up schools and ambushing soldiers, also sniping and suicide bombs. They rarely do 'charges'
Danny T
Senior Master
For the past 12 years I have been instructing 2-3 training sessions per year with the 256th Infantry Brigade Combat Team. As far as I've been told all of them have been through the MAC program (Modern Army Combatives). There are several reasons for the course and for the most part is excellent training with in the limitation of the training.
The three basic options upon encountering a resistant opponent taught are:
-One: disengage to regain projectile weapon range
-Two: gain a controlling position and utilize a secondary weapon
-Three: close the distance and gain control to finish the fight.
The basic techniques form a framework upon which the rest of the program is built and are taught through a series of drills. The course is heavy on groundfighting from bjj, sambo, and wrestling, it is supposed to not lose sight of the fact that it is designed for soldiers going into combat. It is made clear that while combatives can be used to kill or disable, the soldier that typically wins a hand-to-hand fight in combat is the one whose allies arrive with guns first.
Subsequent training builds upon the basic framework by adding throws and takedowns from wrestling & judo, striking from boxing & muay thai, bladed and blunt object weapons fighting combined with how to conduct scenario training and used in the various levels of Combatives competitions.
The largest problem I have with this training is the lack of realism in the training and is what I work with the 256th in. The MAC program at its highest level is MMA not COMBAT!!!
Groundfighting is great until one has is in full combat gear. Try doing a throw or a double leg with a 60 lb ruck on your back. It Isn't Going To Happen! Try doing a bridge, trap, & roll mount escape with the ruck. Soldiers are not going to put down their rifle or sidearm to mount and pulloff a spinning armbar.
First thing I do when instructing is require all participants to have all the gear they will be normally carrying in a combat situation. A large amount the MAC program training is immediately negated but for the combat mindset.
- To educate soldiers on how to protect themselves against threats without using their firearms
- To provide a non-lethal response to situations on the battlefield
- To instill the 'warrior instinct and ethos'
- To provide the necessary aggression to meet the enemy unflinchingly
The three basic options upon encountering a resistant opponent taught are:
-One: disengage to regain projectile weapon range
-Two: gain a controlling position and utilize a secondary weapon
-Three: close the distance and gain control to finish the fight.
The basic techniques form a framework upon which the rest of the program is built and are taught through a series of drills. The course is heavy on groundfighting from bjj, sambo, and wrestling, it is supposed to not lose sight of the fact that it is designed for soldiers going into combat. It is made clear that while combatives can be used to kill or disable, the soldier that typically wins a hand-to-hand fight in combat is the one whose allies arrive with guns first.
Subsequent training builds upon the basic framework by adding throws and takedowns from wrestling & judo, striking from boxing & muay thai, bladed and blunt object weapons fighting combined with how to conduct scenario training and used in the various levels of Combatives competitions.
The largest problem I have with this training is the lack of realism in the training and is what I work with the 256th in. The MAC program at its highest level is MMA not COMBAT!!!
Groundfighting is great until one has is in full combat gear. Try doing a throw or a double leg with a 60 lb ruck on your back. It Isn't Going To Happen! Try doing a bridge, trap, & roll mount escape with the ruck. Soldiers are not going to put down their rifle or sidearm to mount and pulloff a spinning armbar.
First thing I do when instructing is require all participants to have all the gear they will be normally carrying in a combat situation. A large amount the MAC program training is immediately negated but for the combat mindset.
One of the joys of the British army is that learning to fight is probably the thing you don't need to teach them lol. They are naturally pugnacious and have learnt long before they joined up how to fight with fists, feet, knees etc. The combat mind set is one they are more than familiar with. fighting is their favourite sport next to drinking and shagging (sometimes though fighting is better than either of these) The main thing is to channel that into aiming them at things that needs to be fought. This, hopefully, is the enemy.
British squaddies are a unique blend of warrior, street thug and the kindest, most moral ( their own though) nicest people you can imagine having on your side. If they aren't on your side though, best run
The Royal Marines run their own hand to hand stuff, they like the sneaking around using cheese wire to slit throats sort of stuff, they are very good at it especially the SBS. The SAS do their own hand to hand stuff as well, they like writing books too but you shouldn't believe everything you read. And we have rugby.
British squaddies are a unique blend of warrior, street thug and the kindest, most moral ( their own though) nicest people you can imagine having on your side. If they aren't on your side though, best run
The Royal Marines run their own hand to hand stuff, they like the sneaking around using cheese wire to slit throats sort of stuff, they are very good at it especially the SBS. The SAS do their own hand to hand stuff as well, they like writing books too but you shouldn't believe everything you read. And we have rugby.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
insurgents i think or at least performing their role as soldiers. I don't believe he meant off duty pub brawls.
i have heard of hand to hand occurring during building raids. Iraq has a famous one during faluja.
and the Australian commandos have at least 1 documented one in Afghanistan. I have linked that one before. With Paul cale.
so it defiantly does happen.
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