OP
OP
Yoshiyahu
Master Black Belt
what drills do you guys do?
This is a tough one. The idea of "partner drills" in Wing Chun can be very abstract and often misunderstood.
When using the video examples that you posted, it would appear that there is more theory and explanation of concepts than there are of any partner drills. The instructor is doing demonstrations of actions, not helping his partner re-condition his behavior by developing a specific set of skills. Is there anything in particular in the videos that you are addressing that could be used as a partner drill, a certain time mark or movement that the instructor is referring to?
As a side note, the footwork at around 12:30 in the first video is interesting. Out of curiosity do you know what lineage he represents?
Most people may train drill such as:
- You attack,
- I counter.
I like to train
- I attack.
- You counter.
- I then counter to your counter.
All my drills start from my opponent is on guard. I move in and try to open his guard.
ShortBridge
3rd Black Belt
I don't have sound right and I have a hard time with the patience it takes to listen to people talk for too long on YouTube vs demonstrate. What is saying might be great and what he is teaching might have merit, I can't really say without investing more into these videos that I am able to right now.
But, I'll echo what Danny said, most Wing Chun is practiced with a partner, so yes, but I don't think what we do looks like this most of the time. Again, he could be slowing it down for the video because he's trying to explain a concept, but no, we don't typically train in a way that looks like this. There are elements of what he is doing that look familiar to me and aspects that we would not express as demonstrated.
Is this you or your sifu, Yoshiyahu?
But, I'll echo what Danny said, most Wing Chun is practiced with a partner, so yes, but I don't think what we do looks like this most of the time. Again, he could be slowing it down for the video because he's trying to explain a concept, but no, we don't typically train in a way that looks like this. There are elements of what he is doing that look familiar to me and aspects that we would not express as demonstrated.
Is this you or your sifu, Yoshiyahu?
Martial D
Senior Master
Yes, I've drilled like this plenty.
Slow motion unrealistic attacks that fall well short on their own.This sort of training is completely useless.
OP
OP
Yoshiyahu
Master Black Belt
His Lineage is from Yuen Kay San but it also has another art he practices called Choy Li Fut
Not my sifu. So your saying because the drills are slow so you can see what he is doing is wrong?
OP
OP
Yoshiyahu
Master Black Belt
I agree i do the same thing as well. i like free flowing drills too.
ShortBridge
3rd Black Belt
I definitely didn't say "wrong". I am not arrogant enough to label someone else's training as incorrect, especially after only minimal investment in understanding first.
Your question, as I recall is whether his training is like our (royal we) training.
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ShortBridge
3rd Black Belt
Watched a bit with sound. The hands he is demonstrating and ideas that he is expressing are different than how I was taught or how I teach. He could be isolating one idea at the exclusion of others that he also values so I don't want to judge in any way.
I've not had the opportunity to train and exchange with Yeun Kay San players, but would welcome the chance. It would take more than YouTube video for me to form an opinion that comes with any conviction.
I've not had the opportunity to train and exchange with Yeun Kay San players, but would welcome the chance. It would take more than YouTube video for me to form an opinion that comes with any conviction.
wckf92
Master of Arts
Watched a few minutes of each video. To the OP: yes, partner drilling is key in any martial art. Gotta learn those ABC's. But do I train those specific drills as per the attached videos? Not quite. But to each their own.
*note: is it just me, or were all the "attacks" he was "drilling" way out of range.
*note: is it just me, or were all the "attacks" he was "drilling" way out of range.
Cephalopod
Green Belt
To be fair:
Some of the drills that I show the beginners involve ranges that are unrealistic. This is done so that they can learn some basic ideas (eg filling center, arm positions) before complicating things by adding footwork and turning.
That said, I'll always explain to them what they're training and why the range is so evidently unrealistic...and I'll demonstrate what the drill will look like when used realistically.
Then in time the student will progress to doing the drill with correct range and dealing with real power.
So I'll give the video the benefit of doubt. Especially as I haven't seen it with the sound on
Some of the drills that I show the beginners involve ranges that are unrealistic. This is done so that they can learn some basic ideas (eg filling center, arm positions) before complicating things by adding footwork and turning.
That said, I'll always explain to them what they're training and why the range is so evidently unrealistic...and I'll demonstrate what the drill will look like when used realistically.
Then in time the student will progress to doing the drill with correct range and dealing with real power.
So I'll give the video the benefit of doubt. Especially as I haven't seen it with the sound on
ShortBridge
3rd Black Belt
Watched a few minutes of each video. To the OP: yes, partner drilling is key in any martial art. Gotta learn those ABC's. But do I train those specific drills as per the attached videos? Not quite. But to each their own.
*note: is it just me, or were all the "attacks" he was "drilling" way out of range.
Yeah, there's that. He forward weights his ground in ways that give me a little heartburn. I don't use Taan Sao that way. I don't see the type and level of forward intent that I usually emphasize... but, I don't really know anything about Yeun Kay San Wing Chun and there's not a lot to go on here. This is a actually a good case for not posting video of drills on YouTube; not enough context, easy for people like us to pick apart what you are doing without knowing enough about how you train or how your hands feel.
So, to the original question:
Partner Drills? Sure.
Like this? No, not really.
Would be interesting to hear thoughts form YKS practitioners.
APL76
Blue Belt
"Would be interesting to hear thoughts form YKS practitioners".
I can say a word or two from a YKS wing chun perspective.
I'll start off by saying that since I am still learning it from my sifu there might be stuff I haven't learned that this guy is doing.
So, with that caveat in mind-
:That step he does in the first video..............doesn't look like any footwork I have ever seen, so I'm a little sceptical of it being YKS wing chun. Yet, I don't know all of it so maybe its in there somewhere.
:The way he is turning with his techniques is entirely consistent with YKS wing chun.
:The direction of his loy lim (what I think you are calling tan sao) would get you hit by someone who understands force and has good sensitivity; doing that is major no no for us. Same goes for many of the movements he is doing. Force going anywhere but forwards is (generally speaking, there are exceptions to the rule) is not a good idea.
Forward weighing on the stance...........depends. Generally we never do it, but there are exceptions where that rule can be bent or broken. The way he is deploying it here?; I wouldn't do it.
Partner drills, we don't really do things like what he is doing, however the majority of our training is made up of partner drills that are either taken from sup yi sik and/or movements (or sequences of movements) that are isolated from the forms.
I can say a word or two from a YKS wing chun perspective.
I'll start off by saying that since I am still learning it from my sifu there might be stuff I haven't learned that this guy is doing.
So, with that caveat in mind-
:That step he does in the first video..............doesn't look like any footwork I have ever seen, so I'm a little sceptical of it being YKS wing chun. Yet, I don't know all of it so maybe its in there somewhere.
:The way he is turning with his techniques is entirely consistent with YKS wing chun.
:The direction of his loy lim (what I think you are calling tan sao) would get you hit by someone who understands force and has good sensitivity; doing that is major no no for us. Same goes for many of the movements he is doing. Force going anywhere but forwards is (generally speaking, there are exceptions to the rule) is not a good idea.
Forward weighing on the stance...........depends. Generally we never do it, but there are exceptions where that rule can be bent or broken. The way he is deploying it here?; I wouldn't do it.
Partner drills, we don't really do things like what he is doing, however the majority of our training is made up of partner drills that are either taken from sup yi sik and/or movements (or sequences of movements) that are isolated from the forms.
Zeno Bokor
White Belt
we call them "basics", it's the most important part of wing chun. If you can't even defend against the first punch then what's the point of you knowing chi sao?
