will you choose TKD as a amrtial art
- Thread starter Manny
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StudentCarl
3rd Black Belt
Yes, and I recommend it to others often!
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MAist25
Blue Belt
Absolutely, Taekwondo will always be a martial art as long as there are people who train in it as such. It is an art that has so much to offer and appeals to people for a multitude of reasons. If you want it to be a great workout, it can be. If you want to use it as a way to meet new people and make new friends, it can give you that. If you want to lose a few pounds, Taekwondo can get you there. If you want to participate in a sport, Taekwondo is a great option. And if you wish to learn self defense, Taekwondo is perfect for that too. The tools are definitely there, its all about how you use them. Taekwondo is ONE art that can be practiced in many ways and for many different purposes; that's what makes it so awesome!
TKDTony2179
Blue Belt
I was thinking of this as a beginner question.
As my journey continue in this art I will continue to discover the close quarter combat application of this art since my instructor tend to teach mainly the sport side of it due to the fact we have more kids than adults in class. I started taken TKD to discover what is good and what bad about the art. So far, I am discovering that it is the people and how they approach the art and how you train is what you are going to be good at.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
I train at a very self defence oriented school witb no sport aspect at all. So, yes I would definitely train in tkd as long as its geared that way. "Typical" tkd, as seen in the Olympics, would not be something I would choose to do. I think the two can co exist just nicely but the sport side, the high flashy kicks, no head punches etc is not what Im looking for in martial arts.
Who are you directing this question to?
dancingalone
Grandmaster
Nothing. Saying we would change something means that the experience of TKD is universal, that everyone learns the same things and receives the same benefits from the same course of study. Of course that could not be further from the truth with the great diversity of students and teachers with a wide range of physical ability, martial knowledge, and ultimate training goals.
In my case, I got a wide array of effective kicking technique from my study of TKD in my youth, something which I kept up with even as I eventually gravitated to other styles. If I had studied with an instructor who has a great deal of hapkido experience, I probably would have gained that instead of needing to study aikido to fill in a self-perceived gap in my training.
I see this as part of the great beauty of Korean martial arts. There's enough room under the tent for a lot of diversity...Something for everyone. My TKD doesn't have to be the same as yours and that's just fine.
OP
OP
Manny
Senior Master
Nice response, as you do, I keep the traditional martial art of TKD by myself and I have ading over the years somo mother techs I borrowed form another martial arts to enrich my own TKD.
In my TKD the things I would change would be: 1.-Including punches to the head when doing kyorugi and maybe some take downs if posible, here we are talking about NON wtf style. 2.-Yes, we will do WTF style kyorugi just in case some guys wants to compete in WTF tournaments. So basically I will have to to separate kyorugy in two styles, the sports one and the self defense one. 3.-I will encourage power kicking upon flamboyant kicking. 4.-Poomsae would be chore part of my class and self defense too.
Manny
SJON
Blue Belt
Interesting question, but a very hypothetical one nevertheless, as there are a number of conditioning factors, such as:
I took up TKD because I wanted self-defence, I thought TKD would give me this, and TKD was available. Now, after 20+ years IÂ’ve got to a place where IÂ’m happy with my TKD as a self-defence method, but thatÂ’s been the result of a lot of research and hard work on my part, a lot of being misled when I didn't know any better, and finally abandoning much of the material currently taught as TKD, i.e. IÂ’ve basically had to redesign the method (syllabus and methodology-wise) myself to the extent that many people wouldnÂ’t even call it TKD. In fact, I generally donÂ’t call it TKD any more.
Also, I now know a lot about other arts and about how martial arts are organised and focussed in general.
So, in the hypothetical situation of me coming to the arts as a newbie right now, but armed with the knowledge of what the vast majority of TKD schools teach, and knowing what I know about other arts, and having the arts locally available to me, IÂ’d certainly not choose TKD, as it doesn't fit my self-defence requirement as conventionally taught. IÂ’d go with one of the following:
If I just wanted pure self-defence I’d probably go with Krav Maga or one of the other “combatives” methods.
Of course, now that I am where I am, I'm happy with what I do, which certainly does fit my self-defence requirement.
Cheers,
Simon
- As a newbie you probably arenÂ’t 100% clear on what you want/need.
- As a newbie you donÂ’t know enough about how martial arts are set up.
- As a newbie you donÂ’t know enough about a wide range of styles.
- There may be only a limited offer of styles in your area or timetable.
I took up TKD because I wanted self-defence, I thought TKD would give me this, and TKD was available. Now, after 20+ years IÂ’ve got to a place where IÂ’m happy with my TKD as a self-defence method, but thatÂ’s been the result of a lot of research and hard work on my part, a lot of being misled when I didn't know any better, and finally abandoning much of the material currently taught as TKD, i.e. IÂ’ve basically had to redesign the method (syllabus and methodology-wise) myself to the extent that many people wouldnÂ’t even call it TKD. In fact, I generally donÂ’t call it TKD any more.
Also, I now know a lot about other arts and about how martial arts are organised and focussed in general.
So, in the hypothetical situation of me coming to the arts as a newbie right now, but armed with the knowledge of what the vast majority of TKD schools teach, and knowing what I know about other arts, and having the arts locally available to me, IÂ’d certainly not choose TKD, as it doesn't fit my self-defence requirement as conventionally taught. IÂ’d go with one of the following:
- Bajiquan
- Xingyiquan
- Chen Taijiquan
- Tanglangquan
- Okinawan Goju-ryu
If I just wanted pure self-defence I’d probably go with Krav Maga or one of the other “combatives” methods.
Of course, now that I am where I am, I'm happy with what I do, which certainly does fit my self-defence requirement.
Cheers,
Simon
TKDTony2179
Blue Belt
I agree with you on how as a newbie to the martial arts you won't know what to look for or be blind to think that all arts are equal. Also people may only have one or two styles in their area to attend and if it is heavly sport then the self-defense in the school may be lacking.
Looking at what you posted as what you would of choose a martial art for self defense I would asked are these arts pressured tested? How many people have entered a competitive full contact match and won with the system? Not saying I dont like those styles. I grew up loving the Chinese arts more than any other but taekwondo has proven itself in the past.
20 years and you would say it don't look like TKD? What does it look like?
I know I look at other arts like krav and of course karate and I see a lot of the tkd so for me I dont see where learning a new art is necessary. Just understanding techniques in the art and how to adapt them I think is key in TKD.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
When I started TKD there was no WTF. For Martial arts you basicaly had a choice of Judo, Karate, or Korean Karate / TKD. My first art was Judo, but I felt it was more like wrestling due to the fact that it was developed as a sport and that's what the emphasis was on. I am grateful for the basic throwing and falling skills it developed. I segwayed into TKD where the sparring was very similar to kickboxing and we fit right in with open style competitions and even allowed groin kicks and sweeps. (open rules but notTKD rules) but no kicks to the legs in those days. While sparring is not exactly SD I felt the ability to transition the techniques was minimal.
Now, 80% of the TKD schools use WTF style rules. The no punches to the head thing is, was, and will always be a deal breaker. Yes, the ITF style has it's rules and limitations as well with lack of grappling and low kicks for sparring, all you need to do is wacth video of real world attacks caught on tape and see that te overwhelming percentage involves head punches, especialy as the initial attack.
As far as lack of grappling goes I wa fortuneate to be at a TKD school that had a Ju Jitsu guy come in to improve his striking skills in 1975 and when we saw what could happen if he got a hold of us we decided to suck all the knowledge from him that we could vis a vis grappling defense. As far as offense goes I think virtualy every JJ instructorI have know says to use strikes to finish any real world altercation. It's faster and cleaner.
Now, 80% of the TKD schools use WTF style rules. The no punches to the head thing is, was, and will always be a deal breaker. Yes, the ITF style has it's rules and limitations as well with lack of grappling and low kicks for sparring, all you need to do is wacth video of real world attacks caught on tape and see that te overwhelming percentage involves head punches, especialy as the initial attack.
As far as lack of grappling goes I wa fortuneate to be at a TKD school that had a Ju Jitsu guy come in to improve his striking skills in 1975 and when we saw what could happen if he got a hold of us we decided to suck all the knowledge from him that we could vis a vis grappling defense. As far as offense goes I think virtualy every JJ instructorI have know says to use strikes to finish any real world altercation. It's faster and cleaner.
+1
I feel that there is a definable difference between a martial sport and a martial art. The preponderance of TKD is taught as a martial sport (regardless of the 'self defense taught here' sign in the window), and as such is unusable to me. TKD taught as an actual martial art (as taught to me) is very usable for what I need and thus would train in it without hesitation.
SJON
Blue Belt
Google for videos of Lei Tai or Sanshou matches + one of those style names. Not that full contact matches are the be-all and end-all of pressure testing, although I do like the modern Lei Tai format.
Hmmm ... Difficult to say, really. Close range. Hardly any kicks. Quite a lot of throws and takedowns, but not Judo or HKD-type ones. A lot of grabbing and striking. It all comes from TKD, but it doesn't look at all like modern sport TKD or even much like the regimented Shotokan-influenced side of it. To the unschooled eye I suppose it just looks like ugly fighting.
Indeed. But I probably could have achieved that understanding of where it was leading and what it was for (proficiency being an entirely separate issue) quicker in the other arts I mentioned than in TKD, and wouldn't have had to put up with people telling me that the kicking was good for self-defence, that the patterns were fights against several imaginary opponents and that there was some kind of actual syllabus beyond sport fighting, exhibition and performance art patterns
, (this is a generalisation, but one that I've found to be generally true).To be clear, out of all the mainstream arts, I think TKD is the one in which most people least understand the techniques and think about how to adapt them, because the overwhelming emphasis, enforced by the big orgs, is elsewhere and has been for a long time.
Sledgehammer
White Belt
Last month, I started TKD. After a lot of research on the different arts, and comparing that to what is offered in my area, I decided on TKD. The school i chose is a solid school, and teaches very practical self defense applications, although there are 10 year old black belts, which frankly, I find completely absurd. This much I know: If you find a good school, practice HARD at home (using a banana bag), and learn all the basics, TKD can be a very lethal MA, contrary to what many others say.
After only 1 month of training in the dojang, practicing about 3 hours a week on my banana, and learning from "Kwonkicker" on youtube (I HIGHLY recommend him), I am much better able to defend myself. And that is only after 1 month.
That is my 2 cents.
After only 1 month of training in the dojang, practicing about 3 hours a week on my banana, and learning from "Kwonkicker" on youtube (I HIGHLY recommend him), I am much better able to defend myself. And that is only after 1 month.
That is my 2 cents.
I'm glad you've found a school that you like and feel like you're getting something out of, that's great! I'm going to ask you though, and don't take this in any negative way, how do you know it is very practical self defense? Does the instructor(s) have actual realworld experience on what they're teaching you? Have they used multiple techniques/tactics/strategies that they're teaching you, against violent, resisting bad guys in a real world situation? If so, how extensive is that experience? If not, have they at least learned from someone that has extensive experience?
Again, nothing negative directed at you, I'm only using your comments as a springboard for consideration to you or anyone reading this. Since you mentioned SD, I'm assuming this is of importance to you. I have found that many people, even supposed professionals are easily impressed with things that don't work in real life against violent, resisting attackers. Many sports instructors 'think' that what they teach is valid for SD...it is not. A few tidbits of that training 'may' be useful but the bulk relies entirely on the wrong teaching methodology. So anyone (you or other) that has SD as a focus or goal needs to be VERY sure that SD is actually what they are receiving. Ten year old BB's running around, too be seriously honest with you, screams sport TKD. Sport TKD is not SD. That isn't meant as a slight against sport TKD. But you don't drive a Corvette and think it is useful for four-wheeling or hauling a camper. They are different vehicles for different purposes.
I'd suggest to you (or anyone) to respectfully ask about your instructors complete background and experience. If you ask an instructor if they teach SD and they go on about their extensive tournament background and record....turn around and walk out. They teach sport and don't have a clue what SD actually involves. I know sport training but I don't teach it. Therefore if someone comes to me wanting to get into competitions I steer them elsewhere. I'm the wrong vehicle for them. Similarly, if someone comes to a sport club wanting SD, I expect them to be honest and direct them elsewhere. If they don't they do not have the students best interest at heart. Again, nobody take offense if they're in sport TKD (or any sport training). If that is what you want and that is what you're getting then big thumbs up. But I fight real bad guys all the time. My last realworld altercation against a violent, resisting, crazy felon was less than a week and a half ago and the time before that was only a few days earlier. And I talk to these sorts of people. They're direct enough to state they LOVE to fight a person if they've only had sport training (i.e. sport TKD, sport Karate, sport BJJ) cause they are EASY to hurt. If you've never seen real convicts training and teaching fighting techniques to each other then you might seriously consider checking into it. I see them all the time. They don't like fighting street-wise fighters.
Take my comments for whatever you feel they're worth, but I really implore people to make sure they are getting what they think they're getting.
