Why don't women compete with men?

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

. . .

MY GF went toe to with a 6+ foot, 275+ guy this weekend. (she's 5', 120lb). She held her own until they went to the ground. Then, it was all weight working against her. (He's heavy, I know, he sat on me a bit too. :D)
. . .

To all,

Hi, I am 6'3" and I am 275 lbs. And Yes the little pitbull I call Bunny, AKA Kaith's girlfriend,
came at me with everything she had.

Did I take it easy, Yes I did. Why?????
I did not know here training level or background.
Once she started swinging with both hands (They
both had canes) and she was swinging with intent
and good control, I stepped it up.

Now comes to the next issue, I gave her some shots
that would slow down many a person, but she
ignored them. Maybe I remind her of her last
boyfriend and she wanted a piece of me. :rofl:

Yet, once again, the level of contact went up
and when she closed, I showed her the error
of physics. Not that I am a better ground fighter
by no means am I stating that. Did I hurt her on
purpose, NO!. Did I take her to the ground with
intent as I would anyone else at her level yes.

I do owe her a backrub the next time we meet.

Now, to other women I have sparred or fought.
Well, I always start out 'soft'. It does not
matter if they be male or female. All my life
I have heard 'ouch that hurts!, you do not know
your own strength you, (Fill in the blank)'

So, I have learned to control the level of

Now, can women fight, HELL YES!. I had to
take a knife away from a young lady one evening
she had her sights set on me since I had stopped
her from beating up someone else earlier in the
evening. Does this mean, I am good, by no means.
It means with some training and luck, I did not
get cut that time.

I do have certain predetermined approach to
females that is different then males.
Males: Boys / Young Men - Men

If attacked by a boy or a man I have no problems
defending myself. But I have had problems against
women before in my life.

Females: Ladies, Women, Young Women, Girls, and

Ladies, are those Grandmothers everyone loves and
has the class the just comes out no matter what
they do.

Women, are most of the women I met today. They
can be a lady and they can be self assured person.

Young Women, I separate these young women out
since, when I bounced I saw how they would use
their bodies / sexuality to get either attention
or as defense. These young ladies need extra
care, and education.

Girls - the real young females and those that do
not fit in the above young women.

'Its' - Yes I needed this class to be able to hit
a female. After I got my clocked cleaned more than
once by a women / Young Women, I needed some way
to defend myself, but I could not come to terms
with hitting a woman. It is just not right. But,
once she has crossed that line then she losses
those rights and privileges offered to her, and
she becomes an it. Sorry my terms to address
the issue.

My apologies for being so long winded.

Also, I hope too many of the women do not come
for me. :D

Have a nice day

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

[BOr how about the martial art schools that let women do push ups on thier knees! Talk about disrespecting a womans capabilities! Women shouldn't be treated any different than men...it's disrespectful to the women.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD [/B]

When I started my daughter in MA I told her she was to do pushups like the guys not the girls. She agreed and now has killer triceps . When I see higher belt ladies doing the knee thing I just think they are shorting themselves on training.

As far as competing men/women... in Kendo and Chanbara there is competition between the sexes and the ladies seem to have some real speed that is a real plus in sword type arts

GEne Gabel:asian:
Originally posted by Carbon

I am wondering what everyone's views is on why women don't compete with men?

Weight classes is a major reason, when we are talking competition.

For "real life" I think there are reasons, like it's easier to learn the fundamentals when praticeing with someone your own size, and them moving over to diffrent sizes.

Well drawing from my experience when I was in ShotoKan and Tang Soo Do. We used to go to competitions on a weekly basis. So for training, everyone sparred everyone regardless of sex.

Did I have a problem with competiting against a woman? No, but the reality of the situation is that men and women are different "animals". I see nothing wrong with keeping them seperate for competition reasons since really all competition is a game of tag and lacks any real skill except for "scoring a point". Now this is not saying that men and women should be seperated because a woman is weaker, I am just stating that women are a different category than men. It is just like the weight divisions!

Now regarding martial art skills, I have now been training for over 7 years in a pure self protection system and women train with the men on techniques that hurt even when practice using only 10% strength or speed. Do I go easy on women? HELL NO! If they beat on me, I am going to return the favor. It does not matter whether man or woman, they can both hurt you, maim you or kill you without a hestitation. So you better be prepared to use your skill against any attacker whether male or female.


hopefully i am not alone here

it is my belief that a man should never lay an aggressive hand towards a woman. if a lady wants to spar with me i will always decline.

in addition, if a woman attempts to fight me in "real life", i will defend my self without counterattack. let me remind everyone that this is why you spar- for "real life" or sport. neither scenario includes hurting ladies.

so its a little old fashioned-i can live with that-
on the other hand i could not live with causing permanent injury to god's only blessing to man.

much love for the ladies:asian:
In my opinion thenuhauser, your a freak! But I mean that jokingly.... I totally disagree with you though and it's becuase the world we live in does not allow for your type of attitude. We are not doing women a favor by not pushing them when it comes to martial training. If you do what you say then when they are actually attacked and or raped/murdered they are completely unprepared for it and become vicitims or dead. I personally know many many rape victims and know it happens way morew than people think. Your goodwill is only going to get people hurt that would otherwise be able to handle themselves (since they are taking responsibility for thier own safety by joining martial arts only to be fed false confidence by all the men coddling them for 6 years!) I certainly hope you are alone in your opinion but I admire your chivalry.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
I agree with Damian. If I didn't get "pushed" to the edge with my training, I think I would have been hurt bad when I was attacted. Instead the guy had a broken nose and ribs, and I walked away without a scratch. I know, where thenuhauser is coming from, though. Some guys were raised to respect women (the old fashion type). But this day and age doesn't allow that. My guy is old fashioned, but when we are training, we train hard. He treats me like one of the "guys" and "fights" me. He will "resist" me when I do a technique, and I do the same. We take training seriously. But when we are home, he goes back to his old fashioned self :)
Watch out, women don't need to be taken care of, in both scenes.
Given the chance the'll take care of themselves.

I don't think chivalry realy can apply to life anymore. Not simply for the reason that in the class room women need a challenge comparable to the thret they train for, but also because times have changed. If a woman is comming at me (with a weapon) trying to kill me, I'm not gona stick around.. If they are going after one of my freinds, than I'm gona try to take them out. I wouldn't want someone to get hurt just because I wouldn't hit a woman (who was in the wrong). As far as fighting women goes though, courts genneraly give harsher penalties to men attacking women than women attacking men. So yeah I would be extra carefull to avoid causeing dammage, but if I have no other choice but let someone get seriously hurt or hurt someone (less seriously) and end it, I'll chose the latter option.
I just had sparring practice with one of my instructors last night. He whaled on me monkey style and got me down at one point. IHe was clearly trying to take me down a notch and make me learn something (which I did!) I think a lot of people would have been unhappy, but I enjoyed the whole frolic.

Thenuhauser, while your chivalry and consideration for the weaker sex is charming, it does us women no favors. Rapists and attackers have no consideration for us, and as such, we need to know the feeling of what taking on a male is like.

It is the objectification of women that leads to rape and sexual assault to begin with. That's why I get upset when I see "Babe of the month" or those slutty female wrestling tapes in "martial arts" magazines. It sends a mixed message- Here, learn to defend yourself- but make sure that you have big ti**tys. a thong, and long blonde hair while doing it. That sends a message to the other 95% of wmoen that they are not "good enough" - and if someone thinks their inperfect bodies are not worth defending, they will take whatever creep has to dish out.

Enough of the societal crap- let's get down to the nitty-gritty. Sparring is a way to improve yourself in the martial arts. The more people you spar, the more you will (hopefully) learn. Therefore, men and women should spar together, if not for anything else, than to just increase your experience and number of sparring partners.
You know, if more people believed like you and actually stood strong in their beliefs like you then maybe we wouldn't have the problems we have today.

Whether or not I agree with you doesn't matter. Congrats to you for standing up for your beliefs. Some will say that the world doesn't allow for your attitude but the fact that you do it despite what others say tells me it does.

If the guy doesn't want to spar women or hit them then the rIst of you should back off and let him alone to his opinion. If women choose to go out and do this then let them I say, but back off this guy for taking a stand on his opinion.

People will jump his case because he won't spar or hit women because they think that they are doing them no favours but they were all for women's only classes because they had issues that men couldn't grasp?

...and they say I'm crazy...

Gou, I'm an advocate for women's only classes for women that have been tramautized by men in their past and are completely incapable of training with men. That is the only time I think womens only classes should apply. The rest of the female population should be in there with the men kicking the crap outta them and learning how to escape an enraged 250 pound rapist. But thats just my opinion.

As for the world not allowing his attitude but he seems to be able to do it anyway.... well ya he (like the rest of us) can do whatever he wants in life but he's not helping women with his attitude. When we state that society doesn't allow for his kind of attitured we mean that that rapist who just brutalised your girlfriend wasn't stopped by someones chivalrous attitude towards women. That is how society does not allow it. Society is vicious and brutal and could care less. So yes he can have his attitude in this society but society would be better off without it since its not paying attention to anyones attitude but its own.

It's easy for us to sit back and say... if society all had your attitude then we wouldn't need self defence at all! Ya that would be sweet. But that has never ever ever been the case in human history. We have been murdering, raping, torturing and demeaning eachother since the beginning of our bipedal evolution and it seems to be getting worse due to an increase in the worlds population. More people equals more chances for man to demonstrate its propensity for evil.

I know some people might think I have a jaded view on the world but I guess I'm the only one reading the news and watching it all on TV? It's all right there! Just gotta pay attention and not close your eyes everytime you see something unpleasant.

And I live in Canada! Not exaclty the worst nation in the world for murder and rape.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Well I don't agree on that.. I think in genneral the world is getting better.. I can think of alot less pleasant times to live in than now.

But Gou, thenuhauser put forth his idea/perspective of the issue and people just responded to it.. I don't think anyone's saying he's a bad person for not hitting a woman.. just giveing a responce. I mean if he didn't want a responce he shouldn't have posted his view on a discusion board (I assume he did want a responce). I happen to disagree with his position, I'm not saying he should change his I'm just disagreing.
So...we're not doing any ladies any favours by excluding them from classes and sparring, yet we're doing them favours by putting them with other women in a self defence class, teaching them stuff that they won't practice on the type of assailant they will have to face, then sending them out to telling them it's realistic.
Sheesh Gou you act like there is a choice in the matter. Its not that I think women that have been brutalised in their past SHOULD only take self defence classes that are women only. It's that their is no other option....there is no convincing a tramautized woman to take self defence from a man and have him psuedo attack her, there is no convincing her to get over her fear and terror...

Don't know how else to splain it to ya Gou, you keep responding like its our opinion that is keeping these women from training realistically. I really wish there was a way to change their minds but I'm not a psychologist and lack the skills to help them in any way.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
There is choice in everything we do every day. There are options. If you don't like it, you live in a society that allows you to go try and create new options and choices. (Thank you free market society!) Yes there are consequences for all of this, and you have to be prepared to accept them. But the moment you say, "can't" you are really choosing not to.

I was once told, "Nothing is impossible, it just takes a little longer."

I can't count the number of times I have been told I won't be able to do something because blah blah blah. I can't do that because blah blah bah. I have given up trying to keep track.

What a day on this website. I feel very alone. Very alone. Yeesh...
I disagree.. there isn't anything you can do to make someone to deside to pursue realistic self deffence when they have basicly been programmed/brainwashed to fear/avoid the situation you want them to go into. now yeah you do have options to get em into the class room, you could do something like put a gun to their head and they probably would go in.. but convincing them to go in on their own is not posibal. that is what Mavis is reffering to a situation where someone absolutly refuses to enter a class room with a man.

I think what he is saying is it's better to take a half-assed aproach to self deffence than no aproach because the half-assed one can lead to real self deffence. he isn't saying both "you should have classes for women with no men present" and "it doesn't help women to not spar with them" he is saying "when a women is so down troden that she won't fight a man even in sparring than she should at least spar a woman" and "if a woman wants to train to deffend herself against a man then she needs to spar men". Those last two statements aren't realy contradictory...

Well I guess that's what I saw in what he wrote.. But than again answering for someone else is always kinda dangerous. and I proly just stuck my foot in my mouth :p
There, There Gou, it is ok.

Originally posted by GouRonin

There is choice in everything we do every day. There are options. If you don't like it, you live in a society that allows you to go try and create new options and choices. (Thank you free market society!) Yes there are consequences for all of this, and you have to be prepared to accept them. But the moment you say, "can't" you are really choosing not to.

I was once told, "Nothing is impossible, it just takes a little longer."

I can't count the number of times I have been told I won't be able to do something because blah blah blah. I can't do that because blah blah bah. I have given up trying to keep track.

What a day on this website. I feel very alone. Very alone. Yeesh...

First Do not feel alone. :)

Next, you must have worked for the Government
or the military to have the impossible be 'just
a bit longer' :D

Personally I agree, if you say you cannot then
that is your choice and then you will not.

Yet, if you say I will keep trying, you might
get there with enough work. ;)

I once worked with a women who was so afraid of
men that if they talked to her she would file
a compliant with Human Resources. Yes, this
really did occur. Management asked me why she
had not filed against me. When I had to speak
to her, I would approach so she could see me
coming. If I had to hand her something I would
put it down and then step back so she could
pick it up herself. Then I would explain anything
else required but I would not look at her.

The Company sent her for counseling, the
Psychologist was Male, she could not go into his
office. It took a female manager to talk to
her and then to recommend a female counselor.
After some time, she was able to 'function' at
work with others.

So, the female only classes give women a place
to start with out feeling threatened or
intimidated. Now, for true defense they need
to work against a male. But, for some of those
that need it the most you have to help them
open there eyes, even before you can teach them
to walk.

Enough on this for now.

Gou - Have a beautiful day and do not be alone.

I agree with you Gou that nothing is impossible, I'm just stating that I lack the training and tools to make tramautized women see that they can do things they think is impossible when I can't even get a chance to talk to them. Pretty hard to make a difference in someones life when they won't even show up to listen to me.

Sweeper, men sparring with women is seperate from women taking realistic self defence with male "dummies/attackers". The problem with men sparring women is that men have a tendancy to coddle women when they spar. Meaning they aren't even really paying attention cause they couldn't be bothered... I think thats very insulting to women and not helping them get better in martial arts at all. The womens self defence I was discussing is when a male "dummmie" gears up in full body armor and lets a woman use techniques full contact on him. This is usually in a setup like... man grabs woman from behind, man tries to choke woman from the front, man pins woman on the ground. And the woman is encouraged to defend herself as savagely and fiercely as possible. This kind of training is exactly what abused women need but unfortunately the severely tramautized ones will simply not show up for this kind of training. Sometimes they won't even show up if its a woman "dummie". The violence is far to real to them and takes serious counselling to overcome, if ever.

Just wanted to clear up what I was talking about.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
I know several women who can mop the floor with me in point sparring! They would be no match for me if it was full contact- but I guarantee ya I would get hurt before knocking them out. I encourage women to wail on me when we spar, it helps them to realise just HOW HARD they are gonna have to hit an assailant to do any damage at all. I have women who have given me all they have got only to be disappointed that I never even flinched- it's a good reality check for them.

In forms competition I have been beaten by many women (the kenpo forms divisions at most tourneys do not seperate sexes), and deservedly so.

Speaking of being married to it, my wife is a cop who got shot four times in the chest (without a vest) in a convenience store robbery, and her backup had to pull her off the girl who shot her because she was kicking her *** all over the parking lot. You don't mess with my wife! I am pretty good at dishes and laundry...